When to unplug your VCRs and other gear?

[Des]

Aside from the 'green' aspects of unplugging unused things, I am wondering what the general school of though is on unplugging VCRs, DVD recorders and other gear when not in use?
I have heard that plugging and unplugging can damage the electronics, and I have heard that not unplugging when unused for extended periods of time can damage the electronics.

Realized today that a JVC SRV101-S I have has been plugged in (in it's 'off' position) for at least a year since the last time I used it.

So, what are y'alls habits and advice to others?

--dES

[hech54]

Did I leave the iron on?

[Des]

hech54 Illustrations and all!!!!

--dES

[hech54]

I'm actually pretty anal about turning lights off in the house though.

[NJRoadfan]

I unplug after usage unless I am doing a big mutli-day transfer job. I don't trust PSE&G Certainly more reliable electrical service than JCP&L, but still.

[Des]

I unplug after usage unless I am doing a big mutli-day transfer job. I don't trust PSE&G Certainly more reliable electrical service than JCP&L, but still.

Amen brother! I've had both crappy service providers. Though PSE&G has been very nice to me these past few years.

I keep everything on surge protection power strips and recently picked up a few used UPS' that a friend's company were going to scrap. The batteries are dead but they still function as line conditioners. And, free is a good price

--dES

[vhelp]

i just flick the switch on my power strips. are you saying this does nothing for the devices connected ?

[Des]

i just flick the switch on my power strips. are you saying this does nothing for the devices connected ?

It turns them off. I use the UPS' to even out any spikes coming in via the electric lines. We have a problem here in the summer of the lights flickering even on days that aren't real hot.


The surge protection comes in handy in case of an electrical surge from the power company or a lighting hit when the switch is not off.

--dES

[Ai Haibara]

Would it depend upon whether or not you believe something plugged in, but NOT turned on, is still drawing some measure of power? My mother constantly unplugs practically everything in her house, for that reason.

A number of VCRs, DVD players, TVs and other devices, these days, however, don't switch off but instead go into a 'standby mode,' supposedly for reasons such as they'll power-on faster. Those are designed to be plugged in longer, if not all the time - though considering some manufacturers DO treat these devices as 'disposable,' I'd say it's a judgment call as to whether or not you should leave them plugged in/powered, or whether the hardware actually will endure being plugged in all the time, etc.

Pulling and inserting plugs probably does cause some amount of wear to the sockets, but I couldn't tell you how much, or if it's more or less negligible.

[loster]

Wear on outlets not an issue I would consider unless it's a commercial application. Even the lowest quality outlets used for new home construction will last at least several years.

[Constant Gardener]

We live in a city with reliable power and few line disturbances, and so leave most things plugged in to decent surge-protecting power bars. The modem, network, and HTPC are on a small UPS. When we lived in a lightning zone, we had the opposite strategy, and even unplugged phones from their lines; we had some nasty lightning-induced spikes but never lost any gear.

[ron spencer]

Love to use electricity....

[westom]

I have heard that plugging and unplugging can damage the electronics, and I have heard that not unplugging when unused for extended periods of time can damage the electronics.

Urban myths justify all type of useless concepts. Separate myths from reality. Myths never include the reasons why with perspective (numbers).

Constantly disconnecting causes problems such as AC arcing or intermittent power. That is more problematic than what you are trying to prevent. Wall receptacles typically are not designed for constant disconnecting.

If those anomalies are a concern, then you must also disconnect all clocks, the dishwasher, furnace and bathroom GFCIs. Why does hearsay forget to mention also disconnecting those?

Long before solving an anomaly, first define that anomaly. When does your modem most often see spikes? When the UPS switches to battery. For example, this 120 volt UPS outputs 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts. View those numbers. And then ask why a UPS does no damage to electronics. Because protection already inside all electronics are so robust.

What can be damaged by unplugging? Well, a battery in a UPS typically discharges in more than 3 months. Discharged for long periods causes that type of battery to permanently fail. Defined is only one anomaly and resulting damage. And an example of what is necessary before implementing a cure. First define the anomaly. Curing comes later.

What does an adjacent protector do? Protects from anomalies that typically cause no damage (because electronics are already so robust). Another completely different device (unfortunately also called a surge protector) is for transients that can overwhelm that protection. Many forget to define an anomaly before making a recommendation. Do not know of many completely different devices that share a common name. And make recommendations by ignoring what is always required - the numbers.

If your electronics need to be unplugged, than how often annually do you replace dimmer switches, smoke detectors, and clocks? What protects them?

[redwudz]

Quite a few newer PC peripherals power down as a PC does. External USB hard drives often do this.

I tend to use 'standby' with many of my PCs and that works well. But I also do a real 'restart' about once a month as that seems to clear up some problems that aren't handled by the OS with a standby.

As far as saving power or 'saving the environment' by shutting down often, no real suggestion. Turning your computer off causes a bit of stress to the components, but not so much to greatly shorten it's life.

But the original question is whether to 'unplug VCR's or other gear.' Simple answer, JMHO, NO. The amount of power you might save is minimal And having the device reset every time you unplug it will likely shorten it's life.

[Richard_G]

Lots of answers but no-one has come up with the main reason for leaving them on. Anything that has a physical switch in the power supply line will disconnect the power anyway so it makes no difference if you unplug it or not. Anything that has a standby mode will last longer if it is left powered up. Most modern electronic goods use switched mode power supplies with big electrolytic capacitors in them. Electrolytics age and lose capacity until they decide they aren't going to play any more. Things usually fail when initially switched on, think light bulbs, they usually blow when you first turn them on, very rarely while in use. Switch mode power supplies even more so. They can work forever if left permanently powered up, but fail when you switch them on after they have had the power removed.

[westom]

Anything that has a physical switch in the power supply line will disconnect the power anyway so it makes no difference if you unplug it or not. Anything that has a standby mode will last longer if it is left powered up.

Unfortunately, that is a classic answer based only in speculation and observation. The reasons provided are misleading or wrong.

First, which anomaly is to be solved. Too many answers are based in different problems. One wants to reduce power consumption when powered off. Another wants to protect from transients. A third wants to protect from power on damage - a popular myth.

Power off by a switch means other wires remain fully connected to AC. A perfect incoming path for a potentially destructively transient. Will the open switch block a transients? Of course not. Even three miles of sky could not stop it. Why would mllimeters in a switch? To a transient, all wires remain a conductive path incoming to an appliance. A switch that powers off an appliance does not disconnect from potentially destructive transients. A number even printed on every switch makes that obvious.

So again, which anomaly is a switch suppose to avert?

A light bulb fails when turned on. That 'proves' power on damaged light bulbs? Yes, when observation justified a conclusion. Reality: observation alone creates classic junk science. One must first learn how bulbs work. Light bulbs are damaged only by hours of operation and voltage. Power on never appears in math that defines incandescent bulb life expectancy. The industry bible - IES Handbook - is quite blunt with equations on what causes light bulb damage. But many never learn the science. Many forget to first learn 'why' a bulb fails. Many see a bulb fail when powered on. Then use wild speculation to *know* power cycling causes damage. It doesn't. Observation not tempered by how things work is classic junk science.

Same applies to others who know power cycling is destructive to electronics. It is. And then we add numbers. For example, a disk drive is rated for about 100,000 power cycled. That means power cycling seven times every day for ... 40 years. IOW damage created by power cycling is also completely irrelevant. Answers without numbers also demonstrate junk science reasoning.

Long before providing answers, first an 'anomaly to solve' must be defined. Too many posts invent the anomaly. And then recite urban myths to 'cure' that anomaly. What exactly is to be solved by disconnecting?

One valid comment: receptacles have a limited number of 'make and breaks'. Parameters, such as number of 'make and breaks', is why some duplex receptacles cost significantly more than others.

BTW, one parameter for power supplies is hours of operation. Too many hours (leave it on) causes a supply to fail sooner. But again, leaving it on to prolong is is another example of knowledge by not first learning numbers. What causes electrolytic capacitors to fail? So many on and off transients that occur 120 times every second - when left powered on. Best is to power off electronics when done.

[Richard_G]

Power off by a switch means other wires remain fully connected to AC. A perfect incoming path for a potentially destructively transient. Will the open switch block a transients? Of course not. Even three miles of sky could not stop it. Why would mllimeters in a switch? To a transient, all wires remain a conductive path incoming to an appliance. A switch that powers off an appliance does not disconnect from potentially destructive transients. A number even printed on every switch makes that obvious.

Sorry, I'm in a civilised country where transients in power supplies happen roughly once every 20 years (and when they do, the electricity supplier will replace any apparatus damaged by the transient) and all mains powered apparatus that uses a physical switch on the incoming supply much have a dual pole switch so no other wires will remain connected to AC mains if the unit is switched off.

A light bulb fails when turned on.

This was meant purely as a simplified illustration that a power on cycle is more destructive than a constant supply, something you later admit.

BTW, one parameter for power supplies is hours of operation. Too many hours (leave it on) causes a supply to fail sooner.

Only if it exceeds the number of hours it is designed for, however, leaving it on can create extra heat causing the cheap electrolytics to dry out faster. But, although losing capacity, they still continue to work. At least they do until turned off. In a switched mode power supply they are part of an oscillator circuit and while left powered they continue to oscillate. Once turned off they will not start the oscillation so the power supply no longer functions. This is a particularly well known occurrence with Rubicon branded electrolytics. I've changed literally hundreds of Rubicon capacitors at work in any number of different types of equipment. You only have to search for threads regarding failed power supplies in LG television sets, Panasonic DVD recorders, Humax set top boxes and numerous other items (including the Mitsubishi manufactured ECU fitted to the majority of Japanese manufactured cars built between the mid 80's to late 90's) that use, or used to use, these capacitors.

Simple answer is if you want to reduce your electricity bill, switch them off, if you want things to last longer, don't.

[westom]

Only if it exceeds the number of hours it is designed for, however, leaving it on can create extra heat causing the cheap electrolytics to dry out faster. But, although losing capacity, they still continue to work.

We saw exactly opposite. Some capacitors even 'self heal' when power cycled. Hours of observation (not power cycling) was destructive.

So what does a power supply do when powered on? Constantly power cycles. Every time a power supply transistor switches, stress is so large as to even emit a small IR pulse at the PN junction. If power cycling is destructive, then so is normal operation. Best answer is to power off when done.

A light bulb is a perfect example of how so many use observation to 'know'. Light bulbs demonstrate how myths get created. Power cycling is only destructive when wild speculation (from observation) replaces what was taught in junior high science. Knowledge requires a hypothesis (based in well proven science). And experimental evidence. Observation is so misleading as to not even provide a hypothesis. Observation is insufficient for knowledge.

It was even taught that in primary school science. Classic examples of junk science from observation were spontaneous reproduction. And moldy bread breeds maggots. In both cases, observation only created myths.

Relevant question is about unplugging a VCR. Unplug to avert which anomaly? No anomaly means no useful recommendation is possible. That is the topic. Unplug to avert which anomaly? Demonstrated were different anomalies resulting in different recommendations. What VCR threat is a concern? Many erroneous or contrary answers provided because the anomaly (what to protect from) was not defined.

[Des]

The question is: On average which will preserve the life of a VCR, DVD Recorder, etc., leaving it plugged in, but turned off or unplugging (or switching off a power strip)? Anomaly to overcome is: pre-mature failure of either power supply or device.

--dES

[westom]

So which anomaly is a threat to that VCR? Frequency change? Power factor? High voltage? Low voltage? Hours of operation? Surge? Open neutral? Missing safety ground? Power cycling? Heat? Cold? Harmonics?

Some of those are a threat to VCR life expectancy. Others are not. Unplugging is a crude and unreliable solution to some. And creates other problems. Which anomaly is your concern? An answer (unfortunately) requires discussing all and others not yet discussed. Some of those answers require further information including venue, neighborhood history, geology, and details of every connection to the VCR - to name a few more relevant considerations.

[Des]

OK, thanks for playing.

--dES

[turk690]

... What causes electrolytic capacitors to fail? So many on and off transients that occur 120 times every second - when left powered on.

This is for the primary side of a switching power supply. I, for one, repair some of these PSUs and am trying my darn best to recall if I have ever replaced failed primary electrolytic capacitors. The secondary side is different though: I routinely replace the capacitors there. That may or may not be because they are subjected to transients that could range from 10KHz to 1MHz (depending on PSU design), compared with 120Hz for the primary, which indeed remains powered on during standby. But with the exception of the standby line, the secondary capacitors are not powered on during standby conditions. But blow up they still merrily do.

[jman98]

OK, thanks for playing.

--dES

Don't start a fire party and then get all mad when the guests bring gasoline.

YOU started this. Seems kind of disingenuous to me for you to get all pissy about the responses.

You cannot ask this question of any tech people without it turning into a religious issue with people adamantly lining up on both sides and each side calling the other one idiots and telling them how their ignoring the facts and basing their beliefs on fantasy and/or fallacy. I'm honestly surprised that this thread is fairly mild given the kind of responses this question usually brings. At least you were spared the idiotic responses I thought you'd get where someone would swear that just leaving one VCR plugged in and not used would add $50 to your power bill each month.

If you'd like some follow up fun, ask people if they should power off their PCs when not in use. One of our regular members swears that he heats a room in the winter from ONE PC he leaves running. Yeah. Right....

[Des]

OK, thanks for playing.

--dES

Don't start a fire party and then get all mad when the guests bring gasoline.

YOU started this. Seems kind of disingenuous to me for you to get all pissy about the responses.

You cannot ask this question of any tech people without it turning into a religious issue with people adamantly lining up on both sides and each side calling the other one idiots and telling them how their ignoring the facts and basing their beliefs on fantasy and/or fallacy. I'm honestly surprised that this thread is fairly mild given the kind of responses this question usually brings. At least you were spared the idiotic responses I thought you'd get where someone would swear that just leaving one VCR plugged in and not used would add $50 to your power bill each month.

If you'd like some follow up fun, ask people if they should power off their PCs when not in use. One of our regular members swears that he heats a room in the winter from ONE PC he leaves running. Yeah. Right....

You are right jman98, I was tired and moody when I sent that reply. I can definitely see it is inappropriately curt on my part.
My apologize to westom, and any others who might be put off.

jman98, thanks for calling me on my sh*t.

So, back to the topic: To unplug or not to unplug??

--dES

[neomaine]

Turn off, don't unplug. If using a power strip, power off equipment first, then power off strip - if you still have equipment in standby mode.

Personally, I don't unplug anything even if it's in standby mode. I've PCs running days and weeks and only get powered off if we're away from home for more than a couple days. Standby mode these days draws so little power that the savings are even noticed. You can save more money by driving your car more efficiently...

Our electric bill runs 100-150 dollars a month. This is with two pc, three monitors (LCD), color laser (usually in standby), three refrigerators a 60" LCD (CCFL) with receiver, sat receiver (in standby).

What uses most of our juice? By far our furnace for hot water/heating followed by the refrigerators. I could probably take a few less showers a month and make up for the electronics in stand-by mode.

My in-laws on the other hand. Unplug everything and penny pinch their electric dollars. We bought them an LCD (LED) TV for Christmas last year giving them a unit that used a 20-30 watts compared to their old 30" tube set in the 200-300 range. They watch probably 20-25hrs week of TV (plus sat receiver).

They still unplug the thing because they can see the blue stand-by light. They just don't get that the electric draw is so minimal that they could never notice it and is more than made up by a single hour of television watching (compared to their old set).

So it begs the same question, what problem are you trying to solve?

- Saving money by less electrical usage? I'll contend the that amount saved is minimal at best. For my $130avg bill, I won't notice the change. For my in-laws $30/mth bill, maybe.

- Saving equipment by having run less and unplug?

I'll contend that if you bought a quality product that it's designed to be on and it adjusts itself accordingly giving you best of both worlds - less electrical usage, quicker startup, more efficient normal usage, auto shutoff/standby.