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  1. Member
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    I would really appreciate some help in picking a quality analogue video
    capture device. I have spent about one week researching various options
    available and not been able to find an appropriate one.

    I have approx. 20 S-VHS format (super vhs) tapes that I intend to use in
    the production of a documentary. I have attempted capturing these tapes
    using the setup / workflow described below. The results have been disappointing
    and I have concluded through testing that the weak link in the chain is
    the ADVC-300 - which only allows use of its proprietary DV codec. (25mbps with
    4:2:0 chroma subsampling / reduced colour depth).

    Goal:
    - Containerised output file type - avi
    - Acceptable chroma subsampling - at least 4:2:2
    - 10 bit colour depth
    - Leverage off the SVO5800P component out capability
    - Spend upto $800 AUD

    Noteworth:
    - HDD space is not a constraint
    - Research tells me that S-VHS and DV are not friends

    Source
    - Sony S-VHS SVO5800P
    - PAL Super-VHS stock
    - TBC active
    - Chroma filter - low setting
    - Luma filter - moderate
    - Output via stereo RCA and S-VIDEO cable
    - (Component out BNC exists, but is not supported by ADVC-300)

    Convert
    - Canopus / Grass Valley ADVC 300
    - Deactivate 2D and 3D noise filters
    - Deactivate AGC
    - Default position for all other adjustments - Brightness, Sharpness etc.
    - Input via S-VIDEO cable

    PC
    - Windows 6 74 bit Pro
    - Quad Core
    - Solid State system drive
    - 16GB ram
    - dedicated non system (c 2TB Seagate HDD for capture
    - multiple other HDDs available if need be (6)
    - High end PSU - Plenty of W's available

    Capture Software
    - Virtual Dub 1.9
    - Direct Stream Mode
    - Video and audio inputs auto detected and not configurable (DV stream)

    NLE
    - Adobe Premiere (CS2)

    The captured footage is grainy,lurid and I am sure I can do better.

    I have spent some time looking at the following units as a replacement
    for the ADVC-300:-

    - Matrox MX02 Mini
    - Would appear to detect a PAL input and lock user into an MPEG2 file
    type.

    - Motu HD Express
    - Will only work with Adobe Premiere Pro CS5.
    - Manual is not particularly detailed
    - Not much information about on the internet re: this product.

    - Blackmagic Intensity Pro
    - Lower cost alternative. People seem to report issues. Drivers
    releases have pulled colour depth back to 8 bit.

    - Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle
    - Sensitive to hardware. A bit flakey.

    Are there any units / pcie cards out there that can deliver a higher quality
    digital input - in a containerised file format?

    Thanks for any help forthcoming...

    Tim
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  2. Formerly 'vaporeon800' Brad's Avatar
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    20 tapes that are presumably not copy-protected, I would first look into local transfer houses. Look up services that do professional formats like Betacam and contact them to ask specifically what they do with S-VHS tapes. If they shy away then stuff them in the "no" pile. More specific advice: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/myths/2852-how-media-professional.html

    S-VHS tapes store the signal in Y/C not YUV, but on the other hand the component outs are probably the native signal coming from the TBC so it may actually be (very slightly) advantageous to use those BNCs. The service manual should show that.

    4:2:2 AVI is everywhere; 10-bit is where you get into pricier territory for capture solutions.

    I was under the impression that the Matrox MXO2 (not zero) Mini would capture uncompressed. That's what I would lean towards, though more because of brand recognition than for any real sense of its usage.
    Last edited by Brad; 30th Mar 2013 at 22:21.
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    The above reply is on the right track. Mainly, capture to lossless YUY2 AVI (a colorspace more like that of the source than is DV YV12), using Lagarith or huffyuv as your lossless capture compressor (these are fast lossless compressors designed for real-time capture and playback). To get any level of quality or improvement from tape source, count on some intermediate cleanup and post-processing on the way to final encoding: no encoder can perform well with noisy sources. I'd suggest that Adobe Premiere Pro is a good NLE for editing and timeline, but it won't get you far with noisy analog cleanup. You'd need Avisynth for that, or at least VirtualDub. For color grading and uniformity, Adobe offers the best options but VirtualDub is workable.

    I don't think you stated your intendwed final output (DVD? SD BluRay?), but you shoiuld work with lossless for all intemediate processing, and IMO you can find better encoders.
    Last edited by sanlyn; 26th Mar 2014 at 08:33.
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    vaporeon800 - thank you. I have called around actually. Some people
    refused to divulge their methods (the "no pile" as you say). The friendliest place,
    who also performed some tape cleaning for me - said they use the matrox
    mini using the h264 codec (lossy of course). I should probably call a few more when easter has
    passed.

    I just double checked the SVO5800 manual. Actually, it makes no mention of
    how it uses the component out, just how to wire it up for a/b rolling edits.
    You are probably right in saying this is where the TBC corrected signal gets
    sent.

    sanlyn - thanks for pointing out the pitfalls associated with moving
    between 8 and 10 bit color depth. i just assumed 'the more the merrier'.
    End point will be internet streamed, some media file vlc can play on the pc with
    acceptable compression, and probably dvd authored.

    importing via virtual dub with lossless codec - huffyuv or lagarithuv -
    YUY2 AVI - sounds good. What device / card do you use for this purpose?
    Or maybe you can recommend a brand I haven't identified yet. The devices
    metioned above don't want to deliver uncompressed to the PC, or 'shake hands'
    with Virtual Dub.

    Cheers
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  5. Formerly 'vaporeon800' Brad's Avatar
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    Service manual, not the regular manual. Doesn't look like anyone has gone to the trouble of sharing it online though.
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    Originally Posted by timothyd_1975 View Post
    End point will be internet streamed, some media file vlc can play on the pc with
    acceptable compression, and probably dvd authored.
    Another advantage to lossless AVI is that you can do some cleanup and/or go from there to any encoding you want with no damage to your original capture. However....

    Originally Posted by timothyd_1975 View Post
    ...virtual dub with lossless codec - huffyuv or lagarithuv - YUY2 AVI - sounds good. What device / card do you use for this purpose?
    Or maybe you can recommend a brand I haven't identified yet. The devices
    metioned above don't want to deliver uncompressed to the PC, or 'shake hands'
    with Virtual Dub.
    Uh-oh. The major block here, as I just remembered, is Win7. Many older devices around, but none with 7/64 drivers. One idea behind Win7 is to prevent owners from using video stuff other than Micro$oft's home-grown video jokes, even if most stuff like VirtualDub and Avisynth will work with W7. Unless members with expertise in the latest capture gear can chime in, you might be stuck with capping to very-high-bitrate DV or other lossies, and going from there to working with lossless and cleaning it up. I'm using All-In-Wonders in XP, still considered one of the better analog source methods short of $1000-plus cards -- but no drivers beyond XP. The ATI Theater600 PCi did well, but I don't think it flies with Win7; later ATI chips like the 650 and beyond have serious design drawbacks. Retail and OEM editions of XP can still be purchased, but that's seems a waste of time; your new 64-bit software won't work with it, and your PC likely doesn't have motherboard chipset drivers for XP, unless you built your own PC.
    Last edited by sanlyn; 26th Mar 2014 at 08:33.
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    Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
    The ATI Theater600 PCi did well, but I don't think it flies with Win7; later ATI chips like the 650 and beyond have serious design drawbacks.
    The TV Wonder 600 PCI and PCI-e cards do have Windows 7 drivers available from AMD, but the proc amp controls are likely inaccessible. The Theater 600 based PCI and PCI-e devices as well as the Theater 650 and Theater 750 devices have a defective AGC that can't be shut off, bypassed, or made to behave by cleaning up the input with a TBC.

    The TV Wonder 600 USB doesn't have Windows 7 drivers available from AMD, but the Vista drivers on the install CD work for Windows 7, and the proc amp controls for brightness, contrast, hue, saturation and sharpness are accessible. The TV Wonder 600 USB is based on chips from Texas Instruments instead of the Theater 600 chip and doesn't have AGC issues. It has composite, S-Video and stereo audio connections and is considered a decent choice for video capture. It is out of production, but can still be found for sale new in box or used on eBay. However, since the OP is in Australia, I don't think it will be easy for him to find one to test, nor is it really what he wants because there is no component video input.

    [Edit]Thinking about it, if the OP can't find a suitable pro capture device with component input, the Hauppauge USB Live 2 might be worth a look, although it only has composite, S-Video and stereo audio connections. It has Windows 7 drivers, and I know one of our members living in Germany did get it to work with virtualdub, and a few other capture programs.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 31st Mar 2013 at 13:15.
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    Actually I do have an XP machine, which I did build myself. I replaced the system drive in it a few weeks ago. Its clean and ready to go. It was to be my download machine. But that can wait.

    The mobo is a gigabyte GA965P-DS4 which was considered a great bit of gear at the time of purchase. It has... I can't remember what the CPU is but I know it was upgraded to a dual core at some stage. Its intel, not AMD.

    I would probably have to sling another HDD inside, but that's all good.

    I'm assuming the All In Wonder would be compatible with an Intel system. Ill have to check the sound card situation... Ill have a look at the All In and report back. Thanks for the suggestion...
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    ... so sticking to my original goal, if there is a component - in card out there, I would love to hear about it. Obviously it can be mounted in either a Win 6 or XP Pro machine, as per above. All In Wonders reads well, but no component in.
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    The problem with finding a suitable capture device with component input for your purposes is that most are USB 2.0 devices designed for HD video capture and they tend to use h.264 hardware encoding due to the limitations of USB 2.0.

    I haven't heard anything about it as a VHS capture device but maybe the StarTech PCI Express HD Video Capture Card PEXHDCAP would be worth a look. It does use software for encoding. I don't know if it can work with Virtualdub, but it is supposed to work with AmaRecTV for lossless captures.
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  11. Formerly 'vaporeon800' Brad's Avatar
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    If you're willing to take a gamble there are Chinese capture cards with component input that will be compatible with VirtualDub. The question mark is what chip they're using for ADC.

    Because they also have HDMI inputs, if you find that the ADC sucks, you can externalize that portion and just capture the HDMI output of another device. You would find a good external YPbPr -> HDMI box (adapter, video processor, scaler, AVR) and pipe it into the capture card. I posted some 1920x1080 test patterns running through the AVerTV HD DVR's component input compared to using my AVR's component input and HDMI output, but ImageShack has since messed up those files.

    And of course, it's also a clunky solution.

    Here is an example of one such card: http://www.ebay.com/itm/HDMI-1080i-HD-Video-Capture-Express-Card-1920x1080-for-PS3-XBO...-/261184926253
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    usually_quiet and vaporeon9800 - thank you for your suggestions. so far the startech offering is looking to be
    the best bet. im inclined to stick with a brand name at this point, so at least i can google search any issues
    arising...

    i should also mention i am not bound to the idea that i must use virtualdub for capture. some people seem to be
    of the oppinion that desite the fact that it runs on win7, it is rooted in a different type of windows video and
    that the output on a win7 machine will not be as good.


    Further research / review:-

    - BM Intensity Pro
    - Numerous reports that a separate TBC is required for S-VHS image stabilisation. Will aim for now not
    to complicate the equation further by adding in yet another variable. NB my deck (SV05800)
    is pro grade. I could be lucky and find the onboard TBC is good enough.
    - StarTech HD Express
    - Research yeilds nothing negative about this card. Thing is, there is little on the internet about it.
    Could be my best bet.
    - Hauppague Colossus
    - Cannot be used to capture AVI file type.

    - ATI Theatre 600 PCI
    - Defective AGC that cannot be shut off.

    - All in Wonders
    - XP OS required

    - TV wonder 600
    - Does not have component in. Proc amp controls likely inaccessible (VH comment). No Win 7 drivers
    but Vista drivers do work.
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  13. Originally Posted by timothyd_1975 View Post
    - Numerous reports that a separate TBC is required for S-VHS image stabilisation. Will aim for now not
    to complicate the equation further by adding in yet another variable. NB my deck (SV05800)
    is pro grade. I could be lucky and find the onboard TBC is good enough.
    Yours is a full-frame Time Base Corrector. More important is a line TBC.
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    Originally Posted by timothyd_1975 View Post
    - TV wonder 600
    - Does not have component in. Proc amp controls likely inaccessible (VH comment). No Win 7 drivers
    but Vista drivers do work.
    The proc amp controls for the TV Wonder 600 USB are accessible and functional using the Vista drivers with Windows 7. I have one and tested those features using Windows 7 32-bit.

    From what I recall, the proc amp controls for the TV Wonder 600 PCI and PCI-e versions are deactivated when using Windows 7, but they do work when using Windows XP.

    Some of the best technical information I found for the StarTech PCI Express HD Video Capture Card PEXHDCAP is at the page below, plus some of the tutorials for it. (See links at the bottom of the page) http://www.videogameperfection.com/av-gear/startech-pexhdcap-hdmirgbvgacomponent-captu...e-card-review/
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 2nd Apr 2013 at 23:56.
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    In that case I would say the two options looking most appealing are (in order of quality):-

    #1 - BM Intensity Pro + Line TBC

    #2 - StartTech HD Express

    The review on videogameperfection claims BM is a cut above BM Intensity Pro.

    Does anyone know if a good line TBC to match to BM Intensity Pro for VHS and S-VHS caps?

    Thanks guys.
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  16. Originally Posted by timothyd_1975 View Post
    Does anyone know if a good line TBC to match to BM Intensity Pro for VHS and S-VHS caps?
    If your VCR doesn't have one built in, perhaps the easiest solution is to use a DVD recorder that has one in pass-through mode. One good one is the Panasonic DMR-ES15. sanlyn may come back and give you a whole list. Or search in this forum. It's been discussed often.
    Last edited by manono; 3rd Apr 2013 at 06:15.
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    Mm, I don't know that I'm an expert at all DVD machines and camcorders that work as line tbc pass-thru. The ES15 is often recommended and it does address line sync issues pretty well. But many don't like the processing added by the ES15 (and many don't mind), but it's better than no correction at all especially with crummy damaged tape. Some camcorders and a couple of pricey a/v receivers can be used. My DENON AVR-890 has it, but it doesn't defeat Macrovision if that's an issue -- it just passes Macrovision right thru, leaving your capture device to handle it; some capture devices are confused by Macrovision, some aren't (mine are). I've found that the Panasonic ES15 (thru Line 1 input only) and Toshiba RD and RD-XS series up to about 2005 have fairly effective line tbc pass-thru and appear to strip most Macrovision types when they mildly condition frame sync. In that respect they pass a much cleaner signal than cheapo anti-Macrovision "adapters". Later DVD recorders and Pannies such as the ES20 can be used, but they're not as effective and apparently use cheaper, less talented processors. Not all DVD recorders with built-in tbc can be used for pass-thru.

    This long thread discusses several choices and has some mind-boggling test images, but it's worth a browse:
    https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/319420-Who-uses-a-DVD-recorder-as-a-line-TBC-and-wh...591&viewfull=1. There are also posts from member Mini-Me who has auditioned several devices.

    The most effective standalone line tbc's are combo shop-grade units with several signal conditioners. They cost plenty (and I mean plenty) and require expertise, calibration and support gear, so are unsuitable for home use. Don't expect a consumer machine to be as thorough as a $5000 box. But they do solve many problems with analog sources. In some respects they're cleaner than the tbc's of older, more primitive circuits found in high-end VCR's, many of which won't track damaged tape. A pass-thru device leaves you free to use different VCR's.
    Last edited by sanlyn; 26th Mar 2014 at 08:34.
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  18. Firstly, be wary of BM entry models, they are known for bugginess and compatibility issues. They demand a full TBC for analog capture, and are apparently a bit sloppy even with one in the chain. HD is the priority on these cards, not analog.

    About the VCR - I don't have experience with the SVO-5800, but I'm not convinced component out is needed. S-VHS output via component gives zero benefit over s-video for picture quality. The speculation about this model should be looked into, before you go spend a bunch of money to accomodate for it. Also make sure it's working up to scratch, used pro decks such as this one especially demand maintenance.

    I also think there's a potential issue with chaining into a line TBC from your VCR. Line after full frame doesn't sound right to me, I think it could actually hinder the line TBC's ability to correct the image. Someone else here might be able to elaborate on this. If I'm right then you'd be better off with a standalone full frame, although it's an extra step of A/D. That's why VCRs with built-in line are more ideal.

    You've got a lot of options here, and more research to do before you pick one. If you do end up going the route of a modern card with component in, I would pick the MXO2 Mini. The most flexible card in its price range IMO, with great compatibility and connectivity. It can do Uncompressed 4:2:2 as you want, and does offer some control over analog capture eg. selectable AGC among others. Quality would be top notch - but the cost is considerable.
    Last edited by SixFiftyThree; 3rd Apr 2013 at 10:06.
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  19. Member 2Bdecided's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by timothyd_1975 View Post
    I would really appreciate some help in picking a quality analogue video
    capture device. I have spent about one week researching various options
    available and not been able to find an appropriate one.

    I have approx. 20 S-VHS format (super vhs) tapes that I intend to use in
    the production of a documentary. I have attempted capturing these tapes
    using the setup / workflow described below. The results have been disappointing
    and I have concluded through testing that the weak link in the chain is
    the ADVC-300 - which only allows use of its proprietary DV codec. (25mbps with
    4:2:0 chroma subsampling / reduced colour depth).
    Unless you are seeing blocking, I think your guess about the "weak link" may be hopelessly off. S-VHS is your weak leak. It has 30 lines of chroma resolution (4:2:0 means 180 lines of chroma), and a little over 40dB SNR (8-bits give you 48dB SNR).

    "Lurid" implies the levels are wrong. Try to correct them before capture. If they're clipping, this is the biggest improvement you can make. If they're not clipping, you can correct them after capture, but it's not ideal.
    "Grainy" is what S-VHS looks like - though it may look better with correct levels - and will look far better with decent denoising.

    Also, if you take a tape that's you've auditioned on a regular TV (especially a forgiving one, but pretty much any one), capture it and then view in the result on a PC monitor, the results are almost always disappointing. Burn the captured footage onto a DVD and watch it on a regular TV to see how good or bad the capture really is.

    Thinking about the Lurid comment, be aware that some (especially older analoguoe) camcorders lay down colours on tape that are way out of specification. They can be captured in the Y/V YUV domain, but don't exist in the RGB domain, so your PC display is going to look very strange in this case.

    If you can, by all means avoid DV compression. It's relatively benign, and is invisible on all-but-the-noisiest (S)-VHS transfers, but if you want to do a stupid amount of sharpening or extreme colour grading, the DV blocks may become visible. If you're outputting to DVD without scaling, the MPEG-2 blocks will end up in the same place anyway.

    Cheers,
    David.
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  20. Regarding DV compression, I agree with 2Bdecided. It's a viable option, that's criticized a bit harshly these days IMO. It does have its limits for major editing, as all compression does other than lossless (and Cineform/wavelet perhaps) - but other than that it's quite gentle, and has some great benefits that are often overlooked.

    The bitrate is high, the colorspace is good - I also have to question if DV is indeed the weak link here.
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    Originally Posted by timothyd_1975 View Post
    In that case I would say the two options looking most appealing are (in order of quality):-

    #1 - BM Intensity Pro + Line TBC

    #2 - StartTech HD Express

    The review on videogameperfection claims BM is a cut above BM Intensity Pro.

    Does anyone know if a good line TBC to match to BM Intensity Pro for VHS and S-VHS caps?

    Thanks guys.
    Yes, the devices in the BMI product line are capable of higher quality captures, but only if given an acceptable signal as input, and they have the reputation of being somewhat picky in that regard. On the other hand, the StarTech HD Express PEXHDCAP seems to be more tolerant of quirky input, which is why I thought it might work better for capturing the output from a video tape deck.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 3rd Apr 2013 at 12:09.
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  22. Originally Posted by 2Bdecided View Post
    "Lurid" implies the levels are wrong. Try to correct them before capture. If they're clipping, this is the biggest improvement you can make.
    I didn't address that because I wasn't sure what lurid meant in this context. If your theory is correct, then that's one of the ADVC-300's biggest strengths - its ability to address those concerns before capture. He says he turned off the AGC and left all other settings at default. I thought he meant (maybe) he was getting blown whites, crushed blacks and/or oversaturated colors. There are controls for all three and he should make some short test captures using the sliders in the software proc-amp first before making the 'real' captures. He may find the problem disappears. Of course, to really do it right he should also do (much) more work after capturing.
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    Wow I am continually impressed with the information that is imparted here and the generosity of members in sharing it.
    Thanks guys.

    It may well be that the DV codec offered by the ADVC300 is doing justice to the 30 lines of chroma offered by the
    S-VHS standard. So, I have already captured the tapes using this device. The AVIs have been saved and backed up. The fact
    remains, I will never know whether I could have done better if I don't try. So try I must. Yes I am a perfectionist
    (albeit naive some might argue). (This project is important in terms of being a young film maker and having a body
    of work).

    Initially I was most interested in the Matrox Mini. It offers higher colour subsampling, component in, and a choice
    of codecs / uncompressed capture. The product manual is a bit fuzzy around the choice of options you get when
    configuring a capture however, and makes statements akin to "some options will become unavailable depending upon
    the choices you make". Youtube demos are always directed at HDV or NTSC inputs whereas I am concerned with PAL.

    I have spent a considerable amount of time trawling the internet trying to work out what my config options would
    be for a PAL input.

    I contacted the Australian distributor via email to check the options I would have and was told I could capture
    uncompressed to AVI. When I asked if I could configure this for a PAL input, I was told that "If the incoming resolution
    is PAL then that's what you get. There is no up or downscaling".

    This response concerns me. S-VHS does have extra luma data beyond regular VHS that I don't want to throw away. If I cannot
    configure the Matrox Mini input resolution and the PAL default is for regular VHS, this would surely result in
    loss.

    I tried to download the AV Tools (?) application to test this, but found I can only do this if I have already
    purchased the product. Duh.

    If anybody can tell me (sixfiftythree ?!) if a PAL input is configurable, I would be very greatful. (The Australian
    reseller might, just might not know the product intimately). Ie resolution and whether a codec will be used,
    or I can apply that input source to an uncompressed output.

    Cheers,

    Tim
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  24. Originally Posted by timothyd_1975 View Post
    The fact remains, I will never know whether I could have done better if I don't try. So try I must.
    Indeed, you can certainly improve the picture quality using a line TBC. Using full frame only improves signal quality - mostly nothing you can see. I would say before you spend $500 on a new capture device, get a line TBC for cheap (certain DVD recorder models or other) and try re-capturing with your ADVC-300.

    If you can't get levels/colour to your satisfaction, then you may want to get a standalone proc amp. The one built-in doesn't work in the analog domain, so its adjustments are literally no more effective than software. Remember that the capture device comes second to what you feed it - it's best to maximise quality before digitization. But if you insist on something else...

    Originally Posted by timothyd_1975 View Post
    The product manual is a bit fuzzy around the choice of options you get when configuring a capture however, and makes statements akin to "some options will become unavailable depending upon the choices you make". Youtube demos are always directed at HDV or NTSC inputs whereas I am concerned with PAL.
    I should mention I don't own MXO2 Mini myself, but have read up on it for a potential purchase. Config varies for Windows and Mac - in particular, codec options are crippled on Windows with only Uncompressed and MPEG2 I-Frame. But apart from that it's fine. Your PAL concerns are for nothing - it can handle almost all formats, just tell it what you want. Have a thorough read of the manual if you have other concerns, but I can't imagine any issues if you're just capping analog video. Some more info here: http://www.matrox.com/video/en/products/mxo2_mini/specs/

    Originally Posted by timothyd_1975 View Post
    If I cannot configure the Matrox Mini input resolution and the PAL default is for regular VHS, this would surely result in loss.
    This is irrelevant. It doesn't distinguish between the two, just captures at the intended resolution and codec. You have no loss in this regard to worry about, just set it correctly and to your specifications. There are other quality factors but I won't go into them here. Honestly though, I don't think this device is for you, it is costly and IMO ridiculous for 20 S-VHS tapes. You will benefit from a line TBC so get that first, then after more testing if you're still not happy with DV, try out an ATI card or USB stick and cap to lossless (HuffYUV or other). Start cheap and work your way up only if you need to.

    Hope to help out a fellow Aussie.
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    Originally Posted by timothyd_1975 View Post
    It may well be that the DV codec offered by the ADVC300 is doing justice to the 30 lines of chroma offered by the
    S-VHS standard. So, I have already captured the tapes using this device. The AVIs have been saved and backed up. The fact
    remains, I will never know whether I could have done better if I don't try. So try I must. Yes I am a perfectionist
    (albeit naive some might argue). (This project is important in terms of being a young film maker and having a body
    of work).
    You will only do better by identifying the problems in your workflow and fixing them. You appear to be focussing on the one piece of kit in the chain that is almost certainly adequate.

    Unless I've missed it, you haven't posted a sample of the disappointing footage for other people to look at. A picture is worth a thousand words, and a video may give instant insight into what is wrong (or show that nothing is wrong). Crop a few seconds using VirtualDUB DirectStreamCopy to a new DV-AVI file, and upload it to MediaFire (or the forum itself).

    Cheers,
    David.
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    2BDecided has the right idea. A few seconds of your DV capture can be posted in the forum. Choose a scene with motion. A still photo or single frame capture won't yield much info, but several seconds of unprocessed video allows members to gather specs from the video itself.
    Last edited by sanlyn; 26th Mar 2014 at 08:34.
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  27. @timothyd_1975 I'll also add, since the ADVC-300 is bi-directional, a good test is take a look at its output on your TV and see if quality is to your satisfaction, and how it compares to the original tape. It's much more effective than only viewing it on your PC monitor.

    Here is also a good guide so you may better understand analog resolutions and their digital equivalents:
    http://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/video/capture-understand-sources.htm
    Written for NTSC, but just replace 480 with 576.
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  28. Formerly 'vaporeon800' Brad's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SixFiftyThree View Post
    If you can't get levels/colour to your satisfaction, then you may want to get a standalone proc amp. The one built-in doesn't work in the analog domain, so its adjustments are literally no more effective than software.
    Are there analog proc amps? I thought the popular ones were all analog->digital->analog devices.
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    Thanks for the suggestions SixFiftyThree. Indeed throwing money at the problem should only occur if it has been
    established that it is completely necessary.

    And good point re: providing samples.

    Many years ago I captured these tapes to MPEG2 using a consumer S-VHS deck and a Compro Mate TV
    card. A cheap and cheerful capture solution. At the time I didn't realise that PPro CS2 didn't like
    MPEG2. (It actually worked okay with most of the files - tho not all). Obviously when it comes to
    processing a file / placing filters on it etc., MPEG2 is not ideal. So here I am repeating the capture and doing it properly...

    The MPEG2 files offer a comparison point. At at the moment, it must be said that they look significantly
    better than the DV AVIs I am now generating.

    When I stated this thread, I stated my current workflow was producing files
    that looked grainy and lurid. In performing a number of comparisons over the last few days, I have concluded
    that colour is not the issue. Infact, the current workflow is producing flatter colour.
    I have seen files coming off an Arri Alexa ('data wrangler') looking flat in colour and been told this is
    desirable and provides a good foundation from which to perform colour correction. Ergo scratch the lurid
    comment...

    The issue is the graininess. Or 'noise' (?). There is a large amount more noise inherent in my
    current workflow.

    Sample files are:

    - Original_Workflow.avi - JVC S-VHS deck (can't remember the model) + Compro TV Capture Card

    http://www.mediafire.com/?w1425xpsw6kxj1q


    - Current_Workflow.avi - captured using the setup described above

    http://www.mediafire.com/?cu55kyvnv3c5n2v


    (Nb there is no audio on the two clips intentionally). These clips do not contain a lot of motion,
    but they are inside and at night, which is where the noisiness shows up the most. Outside shooting
    is not so bad.

    Before I go to trying a TBC and or ProcAmp, I would appreciate some feedback. As 2Bdecided said,
    I should be questioning any or all points of the capture process, not simply assuming the ADVC300 is
    the culprit for a poorer result.

    Thanks guys,

    Tim
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    (Nb - when generating file Current_Workflow.avi, PPro CS2 did not allow me to export as MPEG2 (native file source). Despite this, I compared Current_Workflow.avi to the source MPEG2 and can report that they look the same to me.)
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