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  1. Member
    Join Date: Jun 2002
    Location: Redding, California
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    I have a BDP-S390 player that recognizes cinivina. The movie will crash every 20 minutes on a disc or usb stick in bluray format. One workaround is to set chapters every 20 mins. When the movie crashes, turn the player off, (player must be turned off to flush the accumulated cinivia data) turn on and select the next chapter for 20 more minutes.

    The same player will play the movie without cinivia problems when the .m2ts file is saved on a data disc or usb stick.

    I don't know if all players act in the same fashion.
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  2. Member
    Join Date: Oct 2004
    Location: Freedonia
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    Originally Posted by Megahurts View Post
    The same player will play the movie without cinivia problems when the .m2ts file is saved on a data disc or usb stick.
    It's also known that putting the movie in an MKV container will do the trick on some players. However, it's probably just a short matter of time before Sony and others start doing Cinavia detection on all files that their players play. But remember that media players not certified for BluRay playback, such as the Western Digital models, do not detect Cinavia at all so the BD -> MKV or BD -> M2TS or BD -> TS solution works fine for them and is extremely likely to continue to do so in the future.
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  3. Member
    Join Date: May 2009
    Location: United Kingdom
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    Interesting thread - I've read through it all. This is the first I've heard of Cinavea - a message popped up on my tv and the sound dropped out. I was watching a 3D bluray iso rip (of Disney's Brave), backed up onto a BD-RE disc on a newish 3D Panasonic bluray player.

    I rip all the blurays I buy (2D ones) using anydvd hd so that I can use bdinfo and ts_MuxeR to remove menu's/extra's/other audio language streams. Basically I'm left with 2 folders:

    BDMV (which holds the .m2ts stream)
    CERTIFICATE

    ^^^^^ just the main movie & best english audio stream

    then I can burn to a rewritable disc using imgburn & play it in the bluray player, or I can play the movie that is saved on my HP microserver or Netgear NAS through my WD live media player (hard wired to my router).

    I've read that the WD doesn't recognise cinavea so for those titles affected I will need to watch through the WD & forget trying to burn to BD. That's fine.....But,

    What about 3D blurays?

    WD media players are not 3D supported so I'm forced to watch on a BD-RE (after ripping to .iso). Slysoft recommend ripping to .iso rather that to folders because otherwise the size of the folders can be 70 or 80GB due to the SSIF (3D virtual data).


    So, is there anything I can do to watch a backed up 3D BD?

    At the same time, I'd like to do to a 3D title the same as I do with 2D BD's ie. just keep main movie + best audio stream. Is this possible ?? (to keep HDD file sizes down if nothing else)

    Any help would be great
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  4. Member
    Join Date: Nov 2003
    Location: West Texas
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    ^Playing a 3D movie, in 3D, that also has Cinavia...the easiest solution is to playback from the original.

    There were a few editions of software players that were capable of playing 3D that came out before Cinavia was added in. I have Arcsoft TMT 5, version 5.0.1.80, which is 3D enabled, and does not obey Cinavia triggers. Of course, it won't play straight from the original discs on many newer releases, because I will not update it. But I always rip and play from the hard drive on my HTPC anyway. A mounted ISO file will play just fine in this player and output through HDMI straight to my tv.

    I don't have a 3D tv however, so I'm not concerned about this format very much.

    To remove everything except one audio stream and keep the 3D, you might look at BD Rebuilder. It now accepts and outputs 3D blu ray. Well, at least some forms of 3D, not all. If you don't want to apply compression, that is possible too.

    Edit: I forgot one other possibility. AnyDVD HD now has the ability to block Cinavia detection on software players like TMT and PowerDVD. You could use a current version of one of them, and have AnyDVD HD run in the background.
    Last edited by Kerry56; 10th Oct 2013 at 16:50. Reason: added additional information
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  5. Member
    Join Date: Oct 2013
    Location: United Kingdom
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    This is what I did. I copied the MP4 file to my Nexus 10 and played the file using VLC app and plugged the HDMI from the nexus to my TV. Job done.
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  6. Member
    Join Date: Nov 2013
    Location: San Diego, CA
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    A very smart software engineer and audio expert was recently fired from Verance, creator of Cinavia.

    We are going to see a lot of fun shortly. Stay tuned. Stay very tuned here.


    No, no technology secret or trade secret will be leaked. That will be illegal. I do not expect that to happen.


    But Cinavia is inherently vulnerable to removal, if you know a bit of audio technology. It's just no one has figure it out yet. It just happens that open and public information provide enough clues how to remove Civania effectively. You do not need to know any of Verance's inside secret to do that. You just need to be smart enough to figure it out. Dr. Felten almost did it. He did not only for lack of trial, not lack of intelligence.
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  7. Member
    Join Date: Nov 2013
    Location: San Diego, CA
    Search Comp PM
    Update:

    The new Cinavia removal technology is now confirmed to be working. It is actually extremely simply, and can be described in no more than ten English sentences.


    A command line tool has been sent to engineers at Verance to confirm that it works. Stay tuned.
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  8. Member Noahtuck's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2004
    Location: ®Inside My Avatar™© U.S.
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    Is it just me or does this guy sound like he is FOS ??

    So some software engineer and audio expert from Verance, creator of Cinavia was fired, but no technology secret or trade secret will be leaked. That will be illegal yet you think the guys that still work at Verance will confirm that something will remove the protection that they made and are still employed by the company that made said protection ??

    LMAO!!!!
    Originally a member since 2001, LONG LIVE TARAN's!!!
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  9. Member
    Join Date: May 2010
    Location: MS
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    Originally Posted by Noahtuck View Post
    Is it just me or does this guy sound like he is FOS ??
    +1, my bullshitometer...the meter is pegged to 100%.
    Anytime I see a post that has in it..."stay tuned", that is almost enough in itself.
    It was asked by what he meant by "stay tuned" in the other thread here and he didn't reply.
    Then added the bit about verance helping confirm...forget that.
    Looks like the poster has had his 15 minutes of fame.
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  10. He has posted this on more than 1 forum, lets see if he comes back with the goods.
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  11. Member
    Join Date: Jan 2012
    Location: North America
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    Yes. Two weeks later, he's cutting & pasting on other forums.

    I'm certainly cheering for anyone's success, but I don't forget that fungal agents can be anywhere, in SECC or not, and that the only thing that's really important is get the nano-measurements of a disk layer.
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  12. Member
    Join Date: Nov 2013
    Location: San Diego, CA
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    I am still around on the Cinavia thing.

    I posted more on the Myce forum if you want to check.


    I am in contact with Verance. They are reluctant to talk to me but they are starting to realize they have to take me seriously and this is not a joke. They are forced to have to talk to me. But just talking to me alone, already put them in an awkward position.


    Defeating Cinavia isn't that hard, really. And it can be done without reverse engineering or leaking any company secret. Everything will be perfectly legal. Nothing will be illegal. What I am going to disclose is something so fundamental and innocent that it is fully protected by First Amendment in the US Constitution. The method will likely work again future generations of audio watermark, even if I don't know what they look like.


    Think about this way, if you have a method of easily erase the watermark on a dollar bill, does it even matter to you that the watermark looks like an image of George Washinton or Abraham Lincohn? Does it matter that in the future they decide to put in the image of Barrack Obama, or even some guy I don't know his name yet? Not at all.


    But there is really no free lunch in this world. The question is who will pay for the lunch.
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  13. Member
    Join Date: Jan 2012
    Location: North America
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    C, for it to be soooo easy (as you brag), I'm shocked that it's not on the store shelves four years ago! Too bad you don't deliver anti-fungal products - there's a Brazilian pal who'd love to hear you talk talk talk all those words words words.

    Hopefully, you'll discover the Phil Knight School Of Programming.
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  14. Member
    Join Date: Jul 2008
    Location: Old Dominion
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    Originally Posted by Cienoway View Post
    I am still around on the Cinavia thing.

    I posted more on the Myce forum if you want to check.


    I am in contact with Verance. They are reluctant to talk to me but they are starting to realize they have to take me seriously and this is not a joke. They are forced to have to talk to me. But just talking to me alone, already put them in an awkward position.


    Defeating Cinavia isn't that hard, really. And it can be done without reverse engineering or leaking any company secret. Everything will be perfectly legal. Nothing will be illegal. What I am going to disclose is something so fundamental and innocent that it is fully protected by First Amendment in the US Constitution. The method will likely work again future generations of audio watermark, even if I don't know what they look like.


    Think about this way, if you have a method of easily erase the watermark on a dollar bill, does it even matter to you that the watermark looks like an image of George Washinton or Abraham Lincohn? Does it matter that in the future they decide to put in the image of Barrack Obama, or even some guy I don't know his name yet? Not at all.


    But there is really no free lunch in this world. The question is who will pay for the lunch.
    I'd dial the rhetoric back a few notches. When you talk about pay you're implying remuneration which is extortion, and that is against the law.
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  15. Think this guy is a shill for Sony...has offered nothing. Likely fishing for information. Sadly has had no success in that approach. I like how he points out he contacted "Verance" to see what they think...the guys IQ must be on par with a 9 year old. There is no such thing as corporate revenge. They will just get a laugh out of it.
    Last edited by anon1000; 18th Nov 2013 at 09:27.
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  16. Don't expect the Chinese to help with Cinavia. A check at a Walmart in China revealed no Blue Ray players being sold at all. Instead they have EVD (Chinese format). Few Chinese buy disks anymore, anyway. They just download from the internet.
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  17. Member
    Join Date: Jan 2012
    Location: North America
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    Originally Posted by anon1000 View Post
    ...this guy is a shill for Sony...
    Yes, but we should be nice to him. I understand he's found the last Howard Hughes' will and is going to be the sole beneficiary, rewarding those who suck up properly. Where's Richard Gere when we need him?

    Just imagine what he can do, with all that money, to combat Brasilian rain-forest disk fungus!
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  18. Member
    Join Date: Nov 2013
    Location: San Diego, CA
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    I posted more details on the Myce forum. I explained why typical attacks on Civania, like imposing noise, does not work, and what it takes to be working against Cinavia. Stay tuned.
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  19. Member netmask56's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2005
    Location: Sydney, Australia
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    I was going to stay out of this but a thought crossed my mind whilst in the loo! If you demux a Cinavia video and simply play the audio in a media player that is Cinavia enabled, no video, does the the file stop playing after the 20 minute time or whatever it is? If it plays on then maybe rather than looking at the audio and fiddly with that one should look at the video signal? Now for my afternoon coffee.
    TheVoiceIsAnotherPerson ~ BeyonWiz DP-P1 and T3 PVR's ~ Popcorn C200 ~ Samsung ES8000 65" LED TV ~ Windows 7 ~ Yamaha RX-A1030
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  20. Member
    Join Date: Aug 2008
    Location: Greece
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    Does programs like anydvd or dvdfab can COMPLETELY REMOVE this protection so the bd-iso file we can rip with these programs play anywhere(Pc or media players)?
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  21. Originally Posted by netmask56 View Post
    I was going to stay out of this but a thought crossed my mind whilst in the loo! If you demux a Cinavia video and simply play the audio in a media player that is Cinavia enabled, no video, does the the file stop playing after the 20 minute time or whatever it is? If it plays on then maybe rather than looking at the audio and fiddly with that one should look at the video signal? Now for my afternoon coffee.
    You can mux the Cinavia watermarked audio with an unrelated video and the player will still respond to the watermark.

    Originally Posted by fits79 View Post
    Does programs like anydvd or dvdfab can COMPLETELY REMOVE this protection so the bd-iso file we can rip with these programs play anywhere(Pc or media players)?
    No. But only Blu-ray players respond to the signal.
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  22. Member
    Join Date: Aug 2008
    Location: Greece
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    I don't understand what you mean?????

    Even with anydvd that at latest version at changelog history said "New: TMT 6.5.1.150 is now supported by AnyDVD's unique Cinavia fix"?????

    I believe that it means it completely remove any cinavia protection doesn't it?
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  23. Originally Posted by fits79 View Post
    Even with anydvd that at latest version at changelog history said "New: TMT 6.5.1.150 is now supported by AnyDVD's unique Cinavia fix"?????

    I believe that it means it completely remove any cinavia protection doesn't it?
    No. They've simply found a way to trick a particular version of TMT.
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  24. Member
    Join Date: Aug 2008
    Location: Greece
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    So the movies that support the anydvd it completely REMOVE the cinavia protection so the result bd-iso file it can plays anywhere any any media player or pc correct?

    Can you tell some movies that has this version of cinavia protection?
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  25. Originally Posted by fits79 View Post
    So the movies that support the anydvd it completely REMOVE the cinavia protection so the result bd-iso file it can plays anywhere any any media player or pc correct?
    No. They've only found a way to trick a particular version of TMT into thinking the ISO image is an original Blu-ray disc. There will soon be a new version of TMT that is no longer tricked by that method. Other players are not tricked by that method.

    Originally Posted by fits79 View Post
    Can you tell some movies that has this version of cinavia protection?
    Do a google search. There are many lists around. One example:
    http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/357508-Full-list-of-Cinavia-protected-movies-2013?p...=1#post2264959
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  26. Member
    Join Date: Aug 2008
    Location: Greece
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    So isn't there any way to remove that protection from the bluray movies it has it?
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  27. Originally Posted by fits79 View Post
    So isn't there any way to remove that protection from the bluray movies it has it?
    Now many times does it have to be said? No. No. No. No. No. No. Actually, there are some methods but they do so much damage to the audio that nobody in their right mind would use them. See the samples in post 2 of this thread:

    http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/357132-Cinavia-removal-technique

    Some aren't quite as bad but they're still unlistenable.
    Last edited by jagabo; 19th Nov 2013 at 08:37.
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  28. Member
    Join Date: Aug 2008
    Location: Greece
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    And how then we see a lot of movies with that protection uploaded at the net even at clear bluray rip without any problems?

    How these people do that?
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  29. Member
    Join Date: Oct 2004
    Location: Freedonia
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    Originally Posted by netmask56 View Post
    I was going to stay out of this but a thought crossed my mind whilst in the loo! If you demux a Cinavia video and simply play the audio in a media player that is Cinavia enabled, no video, does the the file stop playing after the 20 minute time or whatever it is? If it plays on then maybe rather than looking at the audio and fiddly with that one should look at the video signal? Now for my afternoon coffee.
    It's well known that it is only an AUDIO watermark. People who have gone to the trouble to replace the audio with one that doesn't have a watermark, such as a DVD AC3 version, report that their movies play fine.
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  30. Originally Posted by fits79 View Post
    And how then we see a lot of movies with that protection uploaded at the net even at clear bluray rip without any problems?

    How these people do that?
    The Cinavia watermark is still there. Those rips will not play on players with Cinavia detection.
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