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  1. Member
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    I've downloaded the one with Cinavia removed, and am in the process of downloading the second. I'm not having any issues with the downloads other than the fact that they are dog slow.
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  2. Member
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    I do wish that they had left the format unchanged though. The Cinavia file is xvid avi, with mp3 audio. Changing formats will not remove the Cinavia of course, but if they had left both files with DTS HD MA audio, there would be fewer questions on source. As it is, they could have one file containing Cinavia from a blu ray, and the second a conversion from a dvd that does not have Cinavia.
    Last edited by Kerry56; 1st Mar 2013 at 10:12.
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  3. Member
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    Originally Posted by Kerry56 View Post
    they could have one file containing Cinavia from a blu ray, and the second a conversion from a dvd that does not have Cinavia.
    You've got a very suspicious mind
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  4. Originally Posted by Kerry56 View Post
    I do wish that they had left the format unchanged though. The Cinavia file is xvid avi, with mp3 audio. Changing formats will not remove the Cinavia of course, but if they had left both files with DTS HD MA audio, there would fewer questions on source. As it is, they could have one file containing Cinavia from a blu ray, and the second a conversion from a dvd that does not have Cinavia.
    I agree with this. The format of the samples doesn't exactly prove anything to me since we can't verify a source. I'd also like to know if Pixbyte can actually remove Cinavia without having to convert the DTS-HD MA audio to another format first. I don't know how it could be accomplished otherwise. If that's the case then the resulting backup won't have DTS-HD MA audio.

    Personally, I still don't believe it's all as future-proof and successful as Pixbyte is claiming and I don't really consider the video clips to be verifiable proof since we have no proof of the source. Time will tell. Let's see how long the link survive for the samples before they do actually get yanked and for valid reasons.
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  5. I manged to download the Cinavia Free one. Downloading the other now. The movie appears to be Friends With Benifits. The audio is 256 kbps joint stereo MP3. But how do we know he didn't just take the audio from the DVD version (which doesn't appear to have Cinavia)?
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  6. Member
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    I've done some testing, using the trial for the current version of PowerDVD, since I do not have any other software or equipment that will detect Cinavia. Straight from the hard drive, playing the file with Cinavia, PowerDVD does not detect Cinavia and does not stop audio playback.

    So I converted to blu ray format and played the clip from a BD-RE disc. This time PowerDVD did shut down the audio playback at the 20 minute mark. The file that is supposed to have the Cinavia removed, when converted to blu ray format and played from the disc does not trigger the Cinavia mechanism in PowerDVD. Assuming the same source, it seems their removal method does work.

    Edit: And it seems no conversion is necessary when testing playback from a burned disc. The avi file by itself causes the Cinavia shutdown of audio. Live and learn.
    Last edited by Kerry56; 1st Mar 2013 at 20:49.
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  7. Originally Posted by Kerry56 View Post
    Assuming the same source, it seems their removal method does work.
    Given their track record, until I see trustworthy independent third party tests I will assume they cheated on that test. And that they have not found a "fix" for Cinavia.
    Last edited by jagabo; 1st Mar 2013 at 21:24. Reason: typos, more vitriol
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  8. Member Noahtuck's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2004
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    @ gpharman
    Well you read it on the internet so you know it MUST be true!!!
    LMAO!!!
    I think I just heard your IQ drop into an empty well and hit a cement bottom!!

    Anyone else notice this @$$HAT has not been here since he posted ?
    I feel as stupid as he is for posting this because he probably will not read it......

    And I also am a cynic, when I see more than one person or group with proof that I can test myself, then I will believe it.
    Originally a member since 2001, LONG LIVE TARAN's!!!
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  9. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
    Join Date: Oct 2001
    Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas
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    Kerry56, I trust your reputation here, but for me to be convinced, I'd want to be given a known Cinavia'd source clip (copyright problems with that right there) and a Trial copy of the software to allow us to run it ourselves and A/B compare on actual hardware. I'm not from Missouri, but I say the burden of proof is on THEM not me. I plan to remain skeptical until they can allay my doubts on my terms.

    Scott
    "When will the rhetorical questions end?!" - George Carlin
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  10. Member
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    You'll get no argument from me on that Scott. I've already stated my dissatisfaction with the files that we've been given to test, since it is too easy to substitute a dvd audio track when making the xvid/mp3 file.

    But I was surprised that they responded at all. If they intend to mend fences with the video enthusiast crowd, this might be a first step.

    A second should be a working trial, as you've said.
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  11. Originally Posted by Kerry56 View Post
    But I was surprised that they responded at all.
    Gotta keep those orders rolling in...
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  12. Slysoft developement team are close to a total defeat of Cinavia in software players. Quote from James yesterday:

    It will work with everything. Protected isos, unprotected isos, original discs.

    Don't get me wrong, the audio watermark / copy protection is not removed. As I said a while back, this is not possible (well, never say never, we have done some miracles in the past, thought to be impossible for on the fly remastering, so let's say it is extremely difficult) for an on-the-fly re-mastering tool like AnyDVD, as the stream needs to be de-muxed, the audio needs to be decoded, Cinavia removed, audio re-encoded, the stream re-muxed, while keeping the disc layout unchanged.
    Slyce will be the better tool to offer this. Copying is much easier than this real time stuff.

    So, an image created with the new AnyDVD will still trigger Cinavia on a standalone unit like the PS3.

    But restriction-free playback on a HTPC - which is AnyDVD's primary purpose - is possible with the current versions of TMT 5.3 / 6.0 and PowerDVD 12.

    I can't tell, how many times I watched the first 30 minutes of "The Losers" and "Men in Black 3" the last couple of days for testing.

    Hopefully the team can crack it for good in the near future.
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  13. Member
    Join Date: Oct 2004
    Location: Freedonia
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    Getting Cinavia "defeated" in software players is not particularly useful to me as I vastly prefer to watch on my TV than my PC. But I suppose this is better than nothing.

    They confirm what I have long stated here, that true defeating/removal of Cinavia will indeed require that the audio be re-encoded. Purists will object to this. I mean we get posts all the time from people who are flipping out about having to use something like regular AC3 or DTS instead of the lossless BluRay codecs and they act like someone is stealing their very soul if they (gasp!) can't keep an HD codec for their playback purposes.

    Right now it's still possible to just rip an BluRay movie, slap it in an MKV container, and play it back on a variety of players, including PCs and standalone streaming media players, and not have the playback stopped at all due to Cinavia, so this doesn't really excite me.
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  14. Originally Posted by jman98 View Post
    Getting Cinavia "defeated" in software players is not particularly useful to me as I vastly prefer to watch on my TV than my PC. But I suppose this is better than nothing.
    And it's only useful for people who are forced to use one of the licensed Blu-ray player to get menus and such. All other software players ignore Cinavia.

    Originally Posted by jman98 View Post
    They confirm what I have long stated here, that true defeating/removal of Cinavia will indeed require that the audio be re-encoded.
    That's always been obvious. Just like when removing a logo from a video, you have to decompress the frames, filter, then recompress.
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  15. Member
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    By the way, MediaInfo shows 24fps for the avi file that has the Cinavia removed, and 23.976 for the one with Cinavia intact.

    I'm not sure that proves anything, as I have blu ray m2ts files that show up as 23.976 also, and I always though that 1080p blu ray from commercially made movies were supposed to be 24fps.

    Anyone have some insight on how/why MediaInfo is showing this difference between the two avi files?
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  16. Member
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    Originally Posted by Kerry56 View Post

    Anyone have some insight on how/why MediaInfo is showing this difference between the two avi files?
    It's not difficult to encode to 24 fps either deliberately or accidentally, depending on the program being used.

    But as others have pointed out, since the encoded file makes it impossible to verify the claims or disprove them, it seems pointless to me to be concerned about the frame difference.
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  17. Member
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    I used to be good with sound back in the day does anyone know if they have looked deeper to try and find what the actual Audio watermark is that is triggering the protection. I have only recently started having issues with it, much the same as one of the previous posters it was all good till one of the kids updated the firmware on my PS3.
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  18. I stumbled across this list of Cinavia protected titles. It's the longest I've seen:

    http://blog.dvdfab.com/cinavia-protection.html
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  19. Originally Posted by th3Ruffn3ck View Post
    does anyone know if they have looked deeper to try and find what the actual Audio watermark is that is triggering the protection.
    No. Nobody has thought of that. NOT!
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  20. Member
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    wow Born a tool apparently it was a legitimate question.
    Sometimes the most obvious things can be overlooked. I know I don't have the technology in my possession currently but I may know someone who does... time for some digging
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  21. If you look at the Wikipedia page for Cinavia you'll see the signal survives all but the most destructive filtering and corruption.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinavia

    designed to stay within the audio signal and to survive all common forms of audio transfer, including lossy data compression using discrete cosine transform, MP3, DTS, or Ogg Vorbis. It is designed to survive digital and analogue sound recording and reproduction via microphones, direct audio connections and broadcasting, and does so by using audio frequencies within the hearing range... It is intended to survive analogue distortions such as the wow and flutter and amplitude modulation from magnetic tape sound recording... The signal survives temporal masking and sub-band coding by operating on the fundamental frequency and its subharmonic overtones, and by dealigning the phase relationship between the strongest signal and its subharmonics...
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  22. Originally Posted by th3Ruffn3ck View Post
    does anyone know if they have looked deeper to try and find what the actual Audio watermark is that is triggering the protection.
    Yes. People have looked. There are discussions over on Doom9 and I'm sure plenty of other places where people have analyzed and looked at the audio. There are plenty of theories but no real specific concrete evidence that anyone has publicly revealed.
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  23. Member
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    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    I stumbled across this list of Cinavia protected titles. It's the longest I've seen:

    http://blog.dvdfab.com/cinavia-protection.html
    Interesting. Basically if it's on Sony, it's probably got Cinavia. Warner Brothers seems to be the 2nd greatest user, but they barely use it. I only counted one use by 20th Century Fox, Disney and Universal. Most studios seem unwilling to pay the extra costs for it.
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  24. Originally Posted by jman98 View Post
    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    I stumbled across this list of Cinavia protected titles. It's the longest I've seen:

    http://blog.dvdfab.com/cinavia-protection.html
    Interesting. Basically if it's on Sony, it's probably got Cinavia. Warner Brothers seems to be the 2nd greatest user, but they barely use it. I only counted one use by 20th Century Fox, Disney and Universal. Most studios seem unwilling to pay the extra costs for it.
    I suspect most of the studios are just sticking a toe in the water to see what happens.
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  25. Member Seeker47's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jman98 View Post
    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    I stumbled across this list of Cinavia protected titles. It's the longest I've seen:

    http://blog.dvdfab.com/cinavia-protection.html
    Interesting. Basically if it's on Sony, it's probably got Cinavia. Warner Brothers seems to be the 2nd greatest user, but they barely use it. I only counted one use by 20th Century Fox, Disney and Universal. Most studios seem unwilling to pay the extra costs for it.
    If that's the list I'm thinking of, I haven't checked it in a long time. But I bet it has an extreme drift in favor of TOTAL CRAP -- "Transformers" and the like. Stuff I'd never waste 5 minutes watching, never mind have any interest in backing up.
    When in Las Vegas, don't miss the Pinball Hall of Fame Museum http://www.pinballmuseum.org/ -- over 150 tables from 6+ decades of this gradually disappearing American art form.
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  26. Member
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    We're glad we have a few older BD players but we'll do our part and avoid Cinavia. Following the woeful publicity that DVDRanger has presented in other forums, I can't help but think no one's helped Cinavia more than DVDRanger. Like having Stalin laugh and send Joe McCarthy a THANK YOU card.
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  27. Member
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    I have sony br player quite old i think +-2years old, and before yesterday it played everything perfectly, until today I cant play The Raid Redemption after 10min. Is this because I updated the firmware?

    Is there a way to know if the MKV files are Cinavia protected or not?

    Would converting bigger files with Vidcoder to 4.4gb so it fits Dvd disc help?
    I ask this because the Raid Redemption file that failed to play on my BRplayer was untouch, I got it from my friend already size 4.4gb. But most of the times I got bigger files & always convert it to 4.4gb.

    Thanks for the answer
    Last edited by rronald_25; 2nd May 2013 at 05:17. Reason: Better description
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  28. I'm a MEGA Super Moderator Baldrick's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rronald_25 View Post
    I have sony br player quite old i think +-2years old, and before yesterday it played everything perfectly, until today I cant play The Raid Redemption after 10min. Is this because I updated the firmware?

    Before I downloaded something from torrent, is there a way to know if the files are Cinavia protected or not?

    Most of the times I downloaded files bigger than 4.4gb and convert it with Vidcoder to 4.4gb so it fits Dvd disc. Would this help?
    I ask this because the Raid Redemption file that failed to play on my BRplayer was untouch, I got it from torrent already size 4.4gb.

    Thanks for the answer
    Buy the bluray instead and you wont have any cinavia problems. Warez movie downloads discussion are not okey in our forum. It's ok to backup your own blu-rays/dvds.
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  29. Member
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    "Can't play" is too vague to give you any answer. We've had reports that Cinavia protected copies start playing and then stop at various random points, usually around 10 minutes in, with a visible error message showing up to the screen that tells the user that they can't play the disc because it's protected or something similar to that. Did you see such a message? What format is this file in? We've never had a report of Cinavia stopping something like MKV from playing on any player, but you have a Sony so there is always some chance that maybe now Sony checks media types like MKV for Cinavia.

    The Raid Redemption is on Sony Classics. That means there is a good chance that it has Cinavia. If you updated your firmware, yes, it's very possible that your update is responsible for this but information about the format of your file would be helpful. Again, if it's something like MKV or MP4, then Cinavia stopping play of those is a first. Cinavia licensing does NOT require that non-BD and non-DVD formats be checked for Cinavia, so this would be a brand new "screw the customer" measure by Sony, whose obsession with stopping "piracy" shows no limits. Note that while Cinavia is known to be on some Sony DVDs, there is no requirement at all that any players check for and obey Cinavia restrictions on DVDs at present.

    There's no easy way for you as a consumer to identify if a torrent has Cinavia or not. If you want to demux the audio and run that through an audio editor, my understanding is that Cinavia may show up as something in the high frequency band above the range of normal hearing, but I don't claim to be an expert and I don't swear that I am correct about that, so you can research the subject online if you wish. The Doom9 website probably has up to date information on detecting it.
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  30. Member
    Join Date: Jun 2012
    Location: Amsterdam
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    Did you see such msg? Yes

    The format is MKV

    My BRplayer is Sony BDP S380

    Then I guess theres a chance I cant play of all sony pictures release?

    Before this I always use this Audio confic (default) when converting to smaller size.
    Codec: AAC (ffac)
    Mixdown: Dolby pro logic II
    Sample rate: same as source
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