How to remove Cinavia protection?

[unblocktheplanet]

Because Cinavia is an enforced, dictated requirement on all BluRay players since 2012, consumers have no choice EXCEPT locate older players that aren't infected by this monopoly action. (Hotels are often a great source of this 'old equipment', by the way. Offer a exchange "brand new for yer dusty old model..." and most clerks or hotel maint guys won't know the difference!)

Of course, "not buying Cinavia-laden disks" is our only choice and I'm pleased that not a large percentage of newest releases are. I can only hope that THIS consumer-voice will become plain, but that Standards Committee that agreed to pay off Sony, Verance, etc, is the REAL criminal group.

I'm convinced not all manufacturers have complied. As DVD players, Pioneer always was "play anything". However, their BDP-150 has Cinavia. Hope I have some good news to report from my testing.

I live in Asia so maybe this will be my new business! Of course, we use 240V so not suitable for NA.

[anon1000]

I remember when I discovered this...it was like yesterday...at 1st I started using pitch shift increments starting from -5 -10 -15 -20....for my testing...when I tested -5 & -10 the error message still came up. When I tried negative 15, it was when I entered the twilight zone. Nothing happened, movie played just fine. Then after more testing I managed to take it to -13. And that's where we stand. I believe they know about pitch shift and they have a limit to what the watermark can withstand. I guess verance just could not get around a high level of pitch shift.

[Seeker47]

No, you misunderstood me. There already are players that will detect cinavia when playing MKV files off a hard drive and stop playing. An update to your players firmware could add that "feature".

I've written about the great Oppo 95 before, which is Cinavia free. (Turns up on eBay occasionally, but very pricey when it does.) Don't know about the Cinavia being enabled later via f/w updates (not that likely), but I know that another rare feature -- playing ISOs -- was f/w dependent and could get undone in such a manner, so I've not allowed the player to reach the internet. This means no Netflix etc. (whose streaming performance really sux here, anyway), but I can access most of those extra services via some other device if necessary, such as a WD-Live.

[jman98]

Because Cinavia is an enforced, dictated requirement on all BluRay players since 2012, consumers have no choice EXCEPT locate older players that aren't infected by this monopoly action. (Hotels are often a great source of this 'old equipment', by the way. Offer a exchange "brand new for yer dusty old model..." and most clerks or hotel maint guys won't know the difference!)

Of course, "not buying Cinavia-laden disks" is our only choice and I'm pleased that not a large percentage of newest releases are. I can only hope that THIS consumer-voice will become plain, but that Standards Committee that agreed to pay off Sony, Verance, etc, is the REAL criminal group.

Again, I am just not really getting why some people are just completely bent out of shape about this.
1) Ripping to MKV works on streaming media players that don't officially support BluRay (ie. WD models) and many if not most BluRay players.
2) If you don't buy Sony releases, the odds are huge that you'll never see Cinavia. If you avoid Sony and Warner Brothers, you've probably eliminated 99% of it anyway.
3) If you buy BluRays outside of North America, Cinavia is very rare. Even Sony usually doesn't put it on releases outside North America.
4) If you don't care to listen to an English language soundtrack on the film, more likely than not it won't have Cinavia.
5) Buying the disc instead of copying it doesn't give you any playback problems. Yes, of course we all know that 100% of you have kids who mess up your discs and not one single one of you is ever trying to copy a film you didn't buy yourself. Right....

All of Hollywood backs increased copy protection measures. The only reason that Cinavia isn't used more is because only Sony (and Warner Brothers to a much smaller degree) is willing to pay the extra costs to use it on their discs. Other studios have used it ONCE or zero times. Disney is about as paranoid as they come about protecting their discs, even inventing their own form of bad sector copy protection so they wouldn't have to pay a 3rd party to use theirs, and they have used Cinavia on exactly ONE film. None of their classic animated library of the past has used it. One of the problems we have here is that members just assume that everybody else in the planet is exactly like them and that almost everybody is ripping their movies and is effected by this when in fact the majority of people don't rip and don't download movies. Sure the people who do care can complain, but I'm confident that there aren't enough of them to make a difference. And apparently those who do care simply cannot stay away from Sony films, which just mystifies me. Sure Sony does produce some blockbuster films that have Cinavia, but I've seen a list of what has it and the vast majority of Sony's protected films are foreign films and art house stuff that few have even heard of in North America. I remember just being mystified at some of the stuff they would even bother to protect as it would not surprise me at all if the cost to use Cinavia actually exceeds what some films will make on home sales, but Sony is absolutely insane and the consumer hostile media parts of Sony have run the company for years now.

[OllieTSB]

I'm convinced not all manufacturers have complied.

I too am always hopeful for those companies who won't be restrained from free trade. But that doesn't have any bearing on business in America, where monopolies and State & Fed gov'ts conspire to ensure less competition and less free trade consistently. For every 'door' they claim to open up, they slam 3 others behind, sometimes!

One of my favorite DVD players is a grocery-store COBY DVD player. $20. The small, local grocery-store had a pillar of these, probably bought off the back of some truck ("psst, c'mere, kid - wanna deal?"). These are totally cheapo. But the machinery is solid. What these don't include is any ROM restrictions on Regions, PAL vs NTSC detection - nothing. They paid no license fees, no royalties, no nuthin'. It's my favorite player - about a third the size of a computer drive, too - obviously the power-supply. I went back and bought more and passed them out to neighbors. They always work, on any disk.

I have hopes of finding more of these cheapo products that have cut cost-corners by refusing the embed 'systems' that require licensing fees. Free trade might live again!

[unblocktheplanet]

My experience has been that DVD players won't play MP4 or MKV disks. Seems like only Blu-ray players do this. Will Coby play these files or...does Coby make a Blu-ray player?

[OllieTSB]

I'm sure COBY places its brand-name on any number of products - that's all they are - they're a brand-er, not a maker. They're simply a distribution chain, linking retailers to suppliers and use COBY on their boxes.

As for these standalone units playing or not playing file-formats - that's a function of their ROM capabilities. If those CODECS are embedded in their ROMs, they can play 'em. If not, no.

Next, after I ask "Will it play this ___?", I will probably decide to ask, "OK, but does it play it WELL - ?!!" ha ha...

[anon1000]

My experience has been that DVD players won't play MP4 or MKV disks. Seems like only Blu-ray players do this. Will Coby play these files or...does Coby make a Blu-ray player?

Here's a list of Cinavia free USB media players:

WD TV Live Media Player
Sony SMPN100
Sony SMPN200
Netgear NeoTV MAX

The list goes on. Some blu-ray players don't detect Cinavia from USB slot, eg LG, Philips ect.

Also, streaming services don't have Cinavia either. Using a screen recorder or via analog. If you avoid buying optical media & cam rip releases you won't encounter Cinavia either.

[unblocktheplanet]

If I tried a USB media player, I'd probably love it. But, honestly, I want to find a solution with a standalone disk players. Will report back here when I have a shortlist...

Incidentally, the four films I mentioned about are all Sony films.

[johns0]

I'm sure COBY places its brand-name on any number of products - that's all they are - they're a brand-er, not a maker. They're simply a distribution chain, linking retailers to suppliers and use COBY on their boxes.

As for these standalone units playing or not playing file-formats - that's a function of their ROM capabilities. If those CODECS are embedded in their ROMs, they can play 'em. If not, no.

Next, after I ask "Will it play this ___?", I will probably decide to ask, "OK, but does it play it WELL - ?!!" ha ha...

Coby uses the cheapest suppliers which means bargain brands.

[headstrong97]

There is an easier work around to bypass the cinavia protection on any device. The key is to not process the audio within your device. For example I was streaming movies with PS3 media server to my PS3 and some movies I was getting the cinavia message. I did some researching on the cinavia protocol and I found out that cinavia is a watermark detected by the blu ray player, or media player when it processes the audio internally. Since I have my PS3's HDMI out running into my A/V receiver for surround sound, I set my PS3's audio out to HDMI bitstream. By doing this all audio is passed off to my A/V receiver for processing which effectively bypasses cinavia because in my case the PS3 never see's the audio. This will not work on audio files encoded AAC because most A/V receivers do not support that and this format will be decoded and processed by your blu-ray or media player. This works best on DTS encoded files.

The moral of this story is get some form of surround sound system, set your devices to utilize your A/V receiver for audiio processing, only download movies encoded with DTS audio and I promise all your cinavia troubles will go away.

[OllieTSB]

Coby uses the cheapest suppliers...

I'm not sure "COBY uses..." is the best phrase.

I think I'd use "COBY finds..." instead. Sort of like Packard-Bell and ECS "find" suppliers. I have imagined they show up at some warehouse and discover the dustiest shelves. "What's these parts?" and then they get quantities and types, and their engineers then go back to some drawing board and say, "We can get THIS assembly plant to solder THAT part to THESE other parts, and then we'll ship them to America..."

"Uses" or "Finds"? I don't know. I'm sure COBY and every other dirt-cheap marketer ("as seen on TV"!!) has more "finds" than "intentionally contracts to have parts manufactured."

But Sony's conglomeration - which was always huge since 1890s, with tenacles everywhere in Asia - did the same. "You've got how many unsellable parts?" And then they'd be chatting with another chap and discover HE had complimentary parts on the other side of some boundary. "Hmmmm - maybe I can put them together?" said Mr. Sony.

It's a fascinating process. Walking the alleys (er streets) of Taiwan or Shanghai reveals these thousands of 'garage shop' assembly operations. I mean, this "I design nothing, but I assemble everything" discipline may be the heart of consumer electronics.

I just hope more and more assemblers/manufacturers 'forget' to install that Cinavia algorithm into ROM chips. "Oops - better sell this was for $30 instead of $80!"

[Cienoway]

I remember when I discovered this...it was like yesterday...at 1st I started using pitch shift increments starting from -5 -10 -15 -20....for my testing...when I tested -5 & -10 the error message still came up. When I tried negative 15, it was when I entered the twilight zone. Nothing happened, movie played just fine. Then after more testing I managed to take it to -13. And that's where we stand. I believe they know about pitch shift and they have a limit to what the watermark can withstand. I guess verance just could not get around a high level of pitch shift.

See my latest post on how to remove Cinavia for ideas:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/357132-Cinavia-removal-technique?p=2324624&posted=1#post2324624

[Noahtuck]

I remember when I discovered this...it was like yesterday...at 1st I started using pitch shift increments starting from -5 -10 -15 -20....for my testing...when I tested -5 & -10 the error message still came up. When I tried negative 15, it was when I entered the twilight zone. Nothing happened, movie played just fine. Then after more testing I managed to take it to -13. And that's where we stand. I believe they know about pitch shift and they have a limit to what the watermark can withstand. I guess verance just could not get around a high level of pitch shift.

See my latest post on how to remove Cinavia for ideas:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/357132-Cinavia-removal-technique?p=2324624&posted=1#post2324624

Or better yet, see this,
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/357132-Cinavia-removal-technique?p=2324696&viewfull=1#post2324696

[johns0]

Or better yet lock up this thread.

[Cienoway]

I remember when I discovered this...it was like yesterday...at 1st I started using pitch shift increments starting from -5 -10 -15 -20....for my testing...when I tested -5 & -10 the error message still came up. When I tried negative 15, it was when I entered the twilight zone. Nothing happened, movie played just fine. Then after more testing I managed to take it to -13. And that's where we stand. I believe they know about pitch shift and they have a limit to what the watermark can withstand. I guess verance just could not get around a high level of pitch shift.

See my latest post on how to remove Cinavia for ideas:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/357132-Cinavia-removal-technique?p=2324624&posted=1#post2324624

Obviously some one is very upset when I begin to disclose the truth.

[MannyMark]

I tested the Utility from the named DVD-Ranger website and it just worked. It removed Cinavia from my DVDFab copies. Hope they will support soon 47 Ronin.

[jman98]

I tested the Utility from the named DVD-Ranger website and it just worked. It removed Cinavia from my DVDFab copies. Hope they will support soon 47 Ronin.

Thanks for joining us just to shill for DVD-Ranger. That's just awesome. Not really. As I said in your other post:

If you are OK with how DVD-Rangers works to "remove" Cinavia, that's OK. But it's also very much OK that many of us here have major problems with their half-assed "solution".

The audio that you have now is WORSE than the original audio. If you can't tell, then that's OK. Frankly, it's a not a problem to me as I don't know you, I'm not going over to your house, and if it works for you then good. The fact that the audio is worse and we have people here who CAN tell the difference should not be a problem for you either.

[MannyMark]

[QUOTE=jman98;2331284]

The audio that you have now is WORSE than the original audio. .

hmm, this is very confusing. And sorry to say, but you are sure you are objective? The result I have here is 6 Channel Ac3 and I really cannot hear much difference between the original audio and the copy. Maybe you tested an previous version?

[Kerry56]

^The AC3 audio you have from DVDRanger is cobbled together from part of the original DTS HD MA audio stream and possibly some other source. If you have high end audio equipment for playback, the difference will be apparent between the lossless DTS stream and this AC3 produced by DVD Ranger.

If you are satisfied with the result, fine. But you cannot claim the sound is not deteriorated. The audio purists will never accept this solution.

[MannyMark]

Yes, I'm very happy with the result and I thin kit is far away from "terrible". I do not have the money for a "high end" audio equipment, I have a LG speaker system which is enough to get stress with the neighbors.

But after reading the complete list, I see that this DVD-Ranger is not very popular here.

[Steve(MS)]

Yes, we are aware of Ranger's solution.
In order for it to work, a file has to be downloaded.
Each file is an audio file.
That was a Ranger monumental not-so-smart decision.

[El Heggunte]

~~~~
I believe if one uses phase shift he should refer to anything else than 180° (or 90°). When a sound engineer hears of phase shift he would think also on temporal displacement of a particular spectrum (say trebles) vs another particular spectrum (eg bass) - because this plagues analogue gear. He would never think of reversed phase (or antiphase).

180° is the reverse phase in other words when the sound of one channel is in antiphase to the other ones (for multiple channels read combinations of). This is mainly due to wrong cabling (for analogue sounds) or wrong starting point for digital synthesised sounds.

Anyway, a phase difference of max. 90° (between bass and trebles or between channels) is allowed, provided it serves a purpose (eg the phase difference between channels emphasis the stereo/spatial effect). In other words 90° shifting renders (or cancels ) a stereo effect, a phase shift of 180° makes almost no difference (see below).

I am not aware of audio tools within purchasing power of an individual that would change the phase in the musician's understanding - because such a tool would remove cinavia as well .

BTW, phase inversion is almost inaudible. How did you find you have one (and therefore need to alter it)?

Scott's opinion will be most welcome.

[Southern Belle]

IIRC, all BD standalones manufactured after February 2012 have to implement Cinavia.

It so happens, Feb 2012 was when I bought my third BD player, an LG BD670 3D player. It does not recognize Cinavia, nor do my older Sony BDP-S360 players. But I couldn't tell you the last time I used them, apart from playing some 3D Blu-Rays on the BD670. Since I got my 65" 3D TV, we rarely view movies on any of our other TVs, and usually play MKVs from hard drive on the big one. First thing I do when I buy a disc is rip it and make an MKV out of it.

It may be that I've bought my last BD standalone. The only way I would is if my 3D player were to die before there is some satisfactory alternative method of playing 3D movies in full 3D. Yeah, I know, PowerDVD, but I've always disliked it.

Although I don't have a media player, that would seem to be preferable to a standalone, IMO.

heya fritzi,

what do you mean that it plays and better to convert to mkv? i have movies in mkv format and a flat screen and a blu-ray player...that detects cinavia, how would i know if playing a mkv would work with the it?

sorry to be so dumbfounded and i do appreciate your help!!
southern belle

[fits79]

As i read from other forums arround the world the cinavia protection CAN'T removed from the movies is simply trick the bluray iso ripped file so other devices like pc can play it even with scrambled or something else cinavia.

Does anyone try the dvd-ranger bluray-iso file into any media player so it can see if it play the menu of any bluray movie with cinavia protection removed as you say?

If not then how you know if really remove cinavia protection or not???

And does simply remove cinavia protection and make a complete bd-iso full ripped movie(2d or 3d) without cinavia protection?

[Southern Belle]

latest update, the blu-ray player does play the mkv and mp4 format and i plugged in the flash drive and all was well from what i had watched so that is a great fix, thank you other movies i just watch in my bedroom on the older dvd player.

thanks again,
belle!

[fritzi93]

what do you mean that it plays and better to convert to mkv? i have movies in mkv format and a flat screen and a blu-ray player...that detects cinavia, how would i know if playing a mkv would work with the it?

Hello Belle, welcome to the forum. What's a nice southron gal doing in a place like this?

MKV is just a container. It (and much of the following applies to MP4 as well) has some advantages:

1) The movie can be in one file (container).
2) It can contain multiple audio and subtitle streams, plus chapter marks.
3) No forced trailers, warnings, etc. No waiting for a disc to load. No menu to navigate.
4) You can play it from a variety of devices, including an HTPC with free software.
5) Only Blu-Ray standalone players recognize and implement Cinavia, to my knowledge. MKVs can contain a Cinavia audio stream, but it affects playback not at all.
6) Apparently, some standalones at least will not implement Cinavia when playing an MKV, even if they are Cinavia compliant for discs.

Anyway, it seems you figured it out on your own.

[Seeker47]

I'm mentioning this strictly f.y.i., seeing as the program has been flagged here as (very likely) without merit for Cinavia removal, but today, for the first time, I saw an online reference to DVD Ranger being on the market as a commercial product. Up until this, I thought it was more of a rumor, vaporware, or at best a beta product under development.

[johns0]

Ah...ok.

[devilcoelhodog]

Hello, dear all.

Concerning about Cinavia:

---> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinavia

---> http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=155777


Is possible to add Cinavia protection not only to Blu-Ray discs, but DVD's too? I'm talking about video content like movies or video material, mostly.

In teory is possible to add such protection in all kind of audio ( and video ) material? Even on (s)vcd, xvid, divx, RM/RMVB, mp4, x264/x265, mov and many other formats / containers/ codecs?


And Cinavia is too "embedded" on the original audio that is impossible to extract it into a "clean" audio?

And it is possible to "locate" where Cinavia is inserted on the audio material? I mean: there is a way to "see" how Cinavia is "look like" on the audio material?


Thanks.


Best regards.


devil (johner)