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  1. Renegade gll99's Avatar
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    codecobalt wrote

    There's no reason that players wouldn't be backwards compatible, if there is a cinavia check on the disc it is run, if theres not a check, it plays back like normal
    In that case if older discs play fine then any disc that is bypassed (assuming a future crack / hack) will also play too. So why would the convoluted checking be required? Cinavia works fine now with original discs and only kicks in if it's a copy so an extra check brings no benefit. There is no way for any player to know that title X should have Cinavia so once it is removed it would be no different than a disc that never had it. The only way your scenario would work is if the discs all had to have Cinavia and the new players would only play those discs without exception. This would mean they are not backwards compatible and would slow down growth. I still know lots of people who only moved to DVD players in the last 3-4 years from VCR and haven't embraced BD's yet. Don't even think of asking them to buy 2 kinds of BD players. One for the older titles ($5 -$10 bargain bin variety) and one for the new Cinavia infected titles.

    And gll, I dunno where you live, but goodluck returning an opened disc of anytype in the U.S.
    Unless it is clearly marked that Cinavia infected discs will not play in BD players before X date... then this is a defect. Defective discs can be returned for an exchange. People would just need to keep bringing them back for exchange over and over again until they get a refund.
    There's not much to do but then I can't do much anyway.

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    Like I've said, DRM is a battle that will go on for a long time. a hack is very possible but then there will be another patch or new way to protect DRM. It's not a war of shock and awe, where DRM makes a huge leap. Instead its a war of DRM increasing protection one step at a time. This is smart and buys them a few months, then pirates counter by bypassing the DRM, and the cycle continues. If they were to unleash multiple DRM protections at once, rippers would either A: look at fixes that would solve multiple issues at once. B: The community would band together against the threat and there would likely be more people working on fixes. Pretty much regardless of whats done, once it becomes an issue affecting a large enough population there will be people out there who work on a fix and have it released within a few months. I'm simply stating the direction things could go, and if they actually can produce blu-ray discs with a micro-chip/processor in them that will be a big set back to the community. However that too will eventually be cracked.

    a pitch change is not a good crack, and should be easy to fix, just increase the range detected for the cinavia water mark.

    And like I've stated before, cinavia wouldn't be required for all discs (but boy woud cinavia love that.) I said that discs with cinavia audio watermarks would run a compliance check on hardware and if the required software was there it would play, if not there it wouldn't play. For media not protected by Cinavia there would never be a check on the hardware to ensure it complied with Cinavia. only cinavia media would require a .bat or program to check cinavia compliance before playback.

    the compliance check would be determined by the disc, not by the hardware. If the disc never required a cinavia check then one would never be ran and it would play like any pre-cinavia disc.

    Unless it is clearly marked that Cinavia infected discs will not play in BD players before X date... then this is a defect. Defective discs can be returned for an exchange. People would just need to keep bringing them back for exchange over and over again until they get a refund.
    Good luck doing that at a store more than once or twice, and you can only exchange a disc for one of the exact same title/format. Do it regularly and you'll be banned from returning anything.
    Last edited by codecobalt; 15th Dec 2013 at 03:07.

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    A discussion I haven't seen yet but probably will rear it's ugly head is why not modify the hardware of several players directly to turn off Cinavia - sounds like an easier path to follow than all the file processing resulting in f****d up audio presently being discussed. For me I have an old BD player without cinavia that plays everything just fine....
    I discussed the development of a piece of hardware that would go between the DVD/blu-ray player (must be external) and the computer that is doing the encoding. the hardware connected between the two would filter out any inaudible sounds such as the "water marks". No one listens though and yea there may be an easier way. I just know that this would be a suitable method for people who rip movies as a living, and would make the availability of media cleaned of any cinavia watermarks more available to the public.

    But I'm apparently an idiot.

    Modding a blu-ray player would be too much hassle for the current form of Cinavia, especially since a large portion of the blu-ray players people use are PS3's. Buying an older blu-ray player would be more practical for the current form of Cinavia. But if someone could manufacture a piece of hardware that would only allow sounds audible to the human ear to pass through the player and to the encoded video/audio file on the computer I think audio quality loss would be unnoticable or close to.

    Or like I said, someone get an analysis of the audio from a Cinavia protected media file and check the frequencies used when the water mark occurs. Once the frequencies are found simply add static frequencies in that range to bury/corrupt the watermark. It may add a tiny bit to the file size, but shouldn't result in any loss of audio quality.
    Last edited by codecobalt; 15th Dec 2013 at 03:31.

  4. [QUOTE=codecobalt;2288364]

    But I'm apparently an idiot.

    Modding a blu-ray player would be too much hassle for the current form of Cinavia, especially since a large portion of the blu-ray players people use are PS3's. Buying an older blu-ray player would be more practical for the current form of Cinavia. But if someone could manufacture a piece of hardware that would only allow sounds audible to the human ear to pass through the player and to the encoded video/audio file on the computer I think audio quality loss would be unnoticable or close to.

    Or like I said, someone get an analysis of the audio from a Cinavia protected media file and check the frequencies used when the water mark occurs. Once the frequencies are found simply add static frequencies in that range to bury/corrupt the watermark. It may add a tiny bit to the file size, but shouldn't result in any loss of audio quality.
    Like I mentioned earlier, you really do need to do a lot of reading before making a lot of noisy posts about nothing.
    The one way you qualify for being an idiot is not knowing what you are posting about.
    Just to inform you further, Cinavia is audible in that it is contained in the audible portion of the audio.
    A video recorder (camcorder) can record video and the audio and the cinavia will be in the recording...and this is from a distance(through the air).

    So the watermark is in the audible range of hearing...do search engine ...you will find that out.
    It isn't so simple as removing the portion that is outside the range of hearing.

    There are supposed to be some firmwares that were reversed engineered to disable a few certain BD players from detecting the watermark although I don't know about that first hand.

  5. Member Seeker47's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Steve(MS) View Post
    There are supposed to be some firmwares that were reversed engineered to disable a few certain BD players from detecting the watermark although I don't know about that first hand.
    If this hasn't happened, I'm surprised. Back when DVD players had not been around all that long, the one I first chose to buy was a Malata 700, which had been "chipped" (by a U.S. distributor, I think) to defeat region restrictions, Macrovision, and maybe some other annoying restrictive schemes as well. This was an off-brand, maybe not up to the level of the Pioneer or Denon players of the day in performance, but still far more than adequate. (It also did PAL to NTSC conversion in-player, no multi-format tv required, a then useful and unusual feature.) I'm not sure what would be stopping the import and sale of off-brand, "outlaw" BD players here that disregard Cinavia . . . unless the powers-that-be have totally locked down the U.S. distribution channels in the meantime, which I suppose is quite possible. One might think that would involve some monopolistic illegalities or restraint of trade, but, in view of the political reach of Big Content, perhaps not.
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  6. Member netmask56's Avatar
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    A mod that simply turns off the audio mute signal in the chip would suffice, if one can get to it?
    SONY 75" Full array 200Hz LED TV, Yamaha A1070 amp, Zidoo UHD3000, BeyonWiz PVR V2 (Enigma2 clone), Chromecast, Windows 11 Professional, QNAP NAS TS851

  7. Found 2 links over on myce.com to the following, first one over at avsforum:
    Certain Pioneer models:
    http://www.avsforum.com/t/1390589/the-pioneer-bdp-62fd-150-450-2012-blu-ray-player-thr...#post_22949497

    Then this one from somewhere in the world for certain pany models...it looks like they want a "contribution" if someone wants the firmware:
    http://www.firmwareinfo.com/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=274

    Really though, I wouldn't try any of this since I think once the firmware is installed...can't go back to standard firmware...I didn't read any of it too close as I am not interested.
    Cinavia as of right now remains a minor nuisance since there are so many good ways to sidestep it altogether.
    Like non-licensed hardware and software media players...only don't have fully functional menus...which I generally don't care for anyway.

  8. Hi guys, I managed to do something pretty interesting…I managed to extract the Cinavia signal and
    Merge & mix it with an unprotected video source…and now the music video is now Cinavia infected. So
    A “Cinavia infector” is a possibility. If adding Cinavia to an unprotected video file is possible what can we do with this?

  9. Originally Posted by anon1000 View Post
    Hi guys, I managed to do something pretty interesting…I managed to extract the Cinavia signal and
    Merge & mix it with an unprotected video source…and now the music video is now Cinavia infected. So
    A “Cinavia infector” is a possibility. If adding Cinavia to an unprotected video file is possible what can we do with this?
    Did you subtract a Cinavia protected sample from an unprotected sample? Can you upload all the samples?

  10. Banned
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    Seeker47 - the BluRay licensing agreement, which ALL players MUST adhere to, was modified that now Cinavia is REQUIRED. Period. Any players that ignore it violate the agreement and could be subject to whatever penalties are allowed. I am just speculating, but for example that might mean that the US government stops the importation of such players.

  11. Hello, dear all.

    Just for curiosity: it is possible to hack / modify the firmware from the blu-ray model? Or change any physical internal device for other that cannot have any Cinavia mechanism inside?


    Of couse, it will problably involve some physical and/or logical ( software ) work on the blu-ray standalone itself. Just like some consoles similar PSP, X-Box, etc.


    It's possible to do so? And are there any companies around the world that can "produce" or distribute such "modified" devices for many blu-ray models standalones around the globe? Perhaps companies in China, India or Russia?


    Thanks for helping.


    Best regards.


    devil (johner)

  12. Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Originally Posted by anon1000 View Post
    Hi guys, I managed to do something pretty interesting…I managed to extract the Cinavia signal and
    Merge & mix it with an unprotected video source…and now the music video is now Cinavia infected. So
    A “Cinavia infector” is a possibility. If adding Cinavia to an unprotected video file is possible what can we do with this?
    Did you subtract a Cinavia protected sample from an unprotected sample? Can you upload all the samples?
    I will provide a cinavia infected music video so your able to verify that it works. Keep in mind you will need a software like Total Media Theatre 6 or a cinavia infected machine eg PS3.


    http://www.putlocker.com/file/EA1CA395FB33E4D1

  13. Originally Posted by anon1000 View Post
    I will provide a cinavia infected music video so your able to verify that it works.
    I don't doubt it works. I would like to see the sample of the Cinavia signal itself. To see its properties, how it relates to the source audio, etc.

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    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Originally Posted by anon1000 View Post
    I will provide a cinavia infected music video so your able to verify that it works.
    I don't doubt it works. I would like to see the sample of the Cinavia signal itself. To see its properties, etc.
    What a surprise. Once again anon1000 promises a miracle and then falls back on the old "Me not understand English" ploy.

    jagabo: I want a copy of X.
    anon1000: Here is Y.
    jagabo: I didn't ask for Y. I asked for X.
    anon1000: Here is Y.

  15. Originally Posted by anon1000 View Post
    I see the left audio channel has the Eurythmics' Sweet Dreams, probably take from a movie track, at about -50 dB. Is that what's triggering Cinavia? The Christina Aguilera audio is only on the right channel. I have no Cinavia detecting equipment so I can't test this for myself. But it doesn't look to me like you've really extracted the Cinavia signal.

  16. Member Seeker47's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jman98 View Post
    Seeker47 - the BluRay licensing agreement, which ALL players MUST adhere to, was modified that now Cinavia is REQUIRED. Period. Any players that ignore it violate the agreement and could be subject to whatever penalties are allowed. I am just speculating, but for example that might mean that the US government stops the importation of such players.
    Your speculation may well be correct. I really doubt that such extreme market controls would fly in a lot of foreign countries (such as Japan, China, Australia, & NZ), and would be rather curious to get some local confirmation on that -- or otherwise. For example, there never were any standalone BR recorders available in the N. Amer. market (and some of the reason for that also involves projected cost and perceived demand here), but such devices were available in some of the countries I just mentioned, at least for awhile.

    Replacing whatever chip handles Cinavia should be no more challenging than it was for the anti-MV etc. chip on my Malata 700 (which I still have in storage, btw), but it might involve some fake-out firmware no one's been able to do as yet, and then there's the question of how do you sell the player here and get away with it. Units like that Malata DVD player were sold by certain non-major, non-mainstream internet sellers. There remains the question of how tight is the scrutiny on such things today. Note however that the HDCP-buster boxes continue being sold openly here (and on Amazon, no less), as has been covered in other VH threads. That's not as big a deal, perhaps, but still . . . .
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  17. "Sweet Dreams" comes from the movie Sucker Punch -- a Cinavia infected movie. It's obvious all anon1000 did was replace the left track of the Christina Aguilera video with Sucker Punch audio with the volume reduced to hide it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3EcvKXH9zY
    Last edited by jagabo; 19th Dec 2013 at 13:52.

  18. Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    "Sweet Dreams" comes from the movie Sucker Punch -- a Cinavia infected movie. It's obvious all anon1000 did was replace the left track of the Christina Aguilera video with Sucker Punch audio with the volume reduced to hide it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3EcvKXH9zY
    What I did was I remove the vocals using Audacity and I considered it a "cinavia extraction." since the watermark still survives. But for some reason this didn't quite work out since the track was not in stereo thus it ends up somewhat being audible. Now I can mix both audio channels and combine it however, the message would take longer to show approx 5 Minutes. Using a single audio channel worked perfectly.

  19. the BluRay licensing agreement, which ALL players MUST adhere to, was modified that now Cinavia is REQUIRED. Period. Any players that ignore it violate the agreement and could be subject to whatever penalties are allowed. I am just speculating, but for example that might mean that the US government stops the importation of such players.
    No Wal-mart in china carries Bluray players.

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    Panasonic DMP-BD79 failed to detect cinavia.

  21. Here is a software that has the latest CinEx module built in http://www.disney.com to bypass Cinavia
    Last edited by Baldrick; 22nd Jan 2014 at 13:14.

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    Interesting how that just happens to be a commercial product in that link that the OP has admitted ties to in the past.

    See here:
    https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/351095-New-FilePop-Video-Converter
    and look at Donato Totaro's post (one and done) and decide how likely it is that FilePop can actually non-destructively remove Cinavia. Also decide on his experience whether you'd like to buy the product or not.

    Can it remove Cinavia forever? Quite possibly as we know that destroying the audio quality can do so. But can it do it in a way that most people would find acceptable? Hmm....

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    Yes i have now found a solution for cinavia:

    Download "Mezzmo Media Server" for your pc, and get the movie format your tv supports for example: MP4.
    And stream your HD Movies without Cinavia!

    http://www.conceiva.com/products/mezzmo/

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    Instead of removing the Cinavia encryption, has anyone thought of duplicating whatever is inside the device in order to play back personal back-ups? I've had many incidents whereby I brought a movie to a friends house only to have it fall out of my 3 ring binder and stepped on or scratched my blu ray discs. Seems to me we all should have a right to protect our investments without some bloody arsehole coming along and buggering up things for us?

    How about, does anyone know of or interested in starting a repair company refurbishing blu ray players that were made before Cinavia crapped on us? My Toshiba that recently went on to other happy hunting grounds had 3 main boards. The symptom was blown fuse on the 120 volt supply. Shouldn't we be able to repair these oldies but goodies? Does anyone know who does or where I may find parts?

    These should be something to consider at least in the near future if not for all time. Let them through whatever they wish at us as long as we can rebuild our own machines or repair others' machines?

    Would love to hear some thoughts on this?

    sparkymarktoo

  25. No one would pay to have their blue ray players refurbished to do what you want to do. The cost would probably be more than a hard drive, which I use now instead of a blue ray player.
    Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence -Carl Sagan

  26. Exactly. There are alternatives (HTPC, direct play from external hard drive via onboard player, or via media player), and they're not mere last resorts. Many feel that not having to handle a physical disc each and every time one wants to watch a movie is reason enough to opt for an alternative.

    I don't think Cinavia is going to spark an uptick in refurb sales. I also feel the existence of the above alternatives to standalone BD players lessens any urgency for developing Cinavia removal methods.
    Pull! Bang! Darn!

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    With regards to sparkymarktoo's well meaning idea, a big problem that some people have is that they assume that what they want is typical. We need to keep in mind that the vast majority of Americans (Cinavia is mostly an AMERICAN problem - very very little use outside of the USA/Canada) do not participate in the forums here. Heck, I have friends and family members who simply do not ever rip DVDs or BDs, not even just for their own legal use. Honestly, the number of people who are completely bent out of shape about Cinavia is pretty low and it's not likely enough to build a business around. You want to not ever worry about Cinavia again? Buy the damn BluRay! Yes, we know that the 5 or 6 people here who pull out the old "But my kids always $%^& up my discs" card will always do so, but let's be honest. Most of the people who are just completely bent out of shape about it are copying discs they don't own.

    As fritzi93 points out, there are options here that have nothing to do with rebuilding ancient players. Ripping to MKV and playing that back in a variety of devices, including (wait for it...) Cinavia supported BluRay players via a USB attached device, has proven to be a very easy solution for a lot of people concerned about Cinavia.

  28. Heres another solution that popped up:

    "Cinavia Fix:
    Use VirtualDubMod 1.6.0.0 to extract the MP3 audio file
    so it is a faster process. Suitable video: (.avi DIVX/XVID with mp3 audio)
    when demuxed...

    Now open Audacity.
    drag & drop the MP3 audio file into Audacity v. 2.0.5
    (could work on any version of Audacity)...

    Step 1:

    Go to area where theres a upside down
    black triangle its under"stereo, 44100hz"
    32-Bit Float.
    click the black triangle....
    Split the stereo audio tracks to two. Select one audio track by clicking
    on it... Go to
    "Tracks" and remove the right audio channel....go to the triangle again
    make the single channel mono.

    step 2:

    go to Effect:

    Change pitch:

    Percent Change: -40.000 (Adjust slider to the left)

    Click OK. Then go to

    Change pitch again:

    Percent Change: 56.000 (Adjust slider to the right)

    Click OK.


    then Save & export to MP3 recommended (MP3 128 kbps).
    Now mux this audio to the video in question. I recommend VirtualDubMod 1.6.0.0
    so it is a faster process. suitable video: (avi DIVX/XVID with mp3 audio)"

    here's what it sounds like:
    http://www.putlocker.com/file/25C49C29D5059D6D

  29. More crap sound.

  30. Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    More crap sound.
    I would recommend dl the mp3...the stream has a problem.




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