Good. It's a stress problem, like I thought.
Why are you giving up at this point? Very close to nailing the problem, with likely an easy solution.
Highly likely it is CPU overheating, with a laptop a common problem is the heat sink coming loose. Remove, clean, new paste, re-attach, voila.
A CPU temp reading, OR running separate CPU and memory tests, would nail it. Not sure it this has been done.
If the RAM test caused re-boot, IMO highly unlikely, remove, blow out mem slots and re-insert.
If it is CPU temp, it is either a loose heat sink or a bad or dirty fan.
You've cleaned the fan, presumably checked airflow, that leaves the heatsink.
The odds of the CPU itself being defective and causing this problem are nearly zero. Power supply with these symptoms also nearly zero.
Dis-assembly and fix is not that hard, but can be a bit finicky. Complete tear-down instructions available on the Internet, need a very small
Philipps, some heat-sink paste and an hour or two. Cost about $5 to $10.
There is a good reason I have been asking for that simple, no-cost low-effort BIOS test. STILL need it for confirmation and would have
nailed it days ago.
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the screws on the CPU heat sink are tight
i pulled the memory, checked the slots and swapped the cards between slots, when i had it open
like said dust was almost nothing, and the fan functions fine
air flow is good,
there might be a secondary fan some place i didn't see, but the cpu heat sink, heat pipe/transfer tube and fan all look good
BIOS test is next
Look for a temperature reading.
Are you sure the screws were holding the heatsink to the CPU, or just the fan to the heatsink? There is usually a spring-loaded mount of
some sort. Haven't checked your specific model.
Install a CPU temperature monitor like Core Temp http://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/
Start shrink and look at the core temperatures. It should not reach the max temp for your CPU on one or more cores.
With a working cooling the temp on all cores at 100% load is about 10% less then maximum (Tjmax) allowed temp on notebooks. And all cores should have nearly equal temp.
It will take 5 to 10 min to reach the max temp with full loaded cores.
next time i open the laptop, i'll take a pic , the cpu has a heat pipe going to a remote fan
nothing was hot
I now have another problem, yesterday it quit reading the internal & external DVD drives
my external HHD still work
although they are identified under device mgr, i get 'could not load driver' msg
and they show with the yellow ! point,
i suspect the internal interface card is dying
and i'm going to need a new laptop
this one is only 22 months old
DVDShrink is not the problem.
It sounds like your OS is mucked up so do a clean install(or system restore before the problems started), if you still get the error messages in Device Manager then you have hardware problems.
Don't worry about the secondary problem, unplug both for now.
If you have heatsink paste I would clean and re-install it. Check the clamping mechanism. If the contack is not good, the pipe wouldn't
get hot, but the CPU will. Symptoms point to this.
STILL waiting for those temp readouts. Speedfan is another good prog you could use.
I WOULD NOT make any OS-related changes at this point.
The chances of the CPU contact being the problem is very unlikely, that Device Manager error is a dead give away. As a last resort to a clean install I would try several anti-malware programs to rule out malware causing the problems(SuperAntiSpyware, Malwarebytes, etc), install CCleaner and clean up your laptop and fix the registry.
i did the HW disable, uninstall, find new hardware
all to No avail, same error 'driver not loaded'
searched online for new drivers
windows says installed driver is most up to date
but it won't load it,
seems like a windows failure
tried system restore to 12-8-12
before drive failures
previous restore points have disappeared
HHD ??, win7 corrupted ?
repairing/installing win7 from hidden drive partiton D, is going to be a pita,
likely loose all my files and installed programs
will have to try a external backup before i attempt this
i DL core temp, but when i saw all the yahoo garbage attached to the install
I ABORTED INSTALL
A shutdown in 30 seconds, under heavy CPU load, with no error messages recorded, is extremely low odds to be an OS problem. It SURE AS HELL is not a DEVICE MANAGER issue.
You deal with the primary problem FIRST, especially when it is SO FREAKIN EASY to determine what that problem is.
If you check out speedfan, no crap comes with it and fast answers will be had.
So you think your USB ports might be bad? Plug in a memory stick. Answer in SECONDS.
There is a good reason I've fixed crap like this for a living for over 20 years now. If you want to get distracted doing 15 different things, that's fine, I have other stuff to do.
If you want to follow tried and tested diagnostic methodology, as used by professionals, I will try to help. However, I am getting frustrated waiting on a SIMPLE DAMN TEMPERATURE TEST. This is a problem that will absolutely, positively cause a shutdown in 30 seconds under heavy CPU load, and also a problem that HAS NOT been eliminated by any other test, and also a MORE SERIOUS problem than an external drive not being recognized.
Are they related? Maybe. Are there two, seperate, completely unrelated problems? Possibly. Do we have enough information to make a determination? NO, we don't. Is there a simple, easy test which will either positively indicate or absolutely eliminate on of the most likely causes for the given symptoms? Why yes, yes there is.
A malwarebytes scan would be a good idea. However, it it overheats and shuts down during the scan, then that was a waste of time and we are back to fixing the PRIMARY PROBLEM.
Is there some good reason you can't press F1 or F2 for setup, look for a menu that gives temps, or even just do nothing at all for about 3-5 minutes? One of the great beauties of this test is that the OS and all software is ELIMINATED as a possible cause, if it reboots. Also, there is usually a temperature readout that gives actual numbers and removes all guesswork.
Last edited by Nelson37; 12th Dec 2012 at 04:27.
I agree with Nelson. It just sounds so much like a heat problem that you really should first pursue the line he suggests.
From the OP's description of the problem, it reminds me very much of a problem I had. Sudden shutdown under any significant CPU load. Long story short, it turned out one of the posts on the crap Intel stock fan came loose. (I had just cleaned out the case and probably bumped it). The fan was still attached, but there was less pressure on the paste/heat sink. And the paste was getting old as well.
Here's the thing: I had the computer set to shut down at 60 C in the BIOS.
New paste and re-attaching the fan fixed it. That was a few years ago, and the computer is still going strong in my office.
Good luck.Pull! Bang! Darn!
if bios has a temp reading, i will try and find my way into it
I am not going to use some software that loads a bunch of yahoo toolbar and other add-on's into my browser
my USB ports are find
they connect with my external HD 's both the seagate and the acom, my phone, my sony media player, my xoom tablet, and canon printer
but my internal DVD/CD drive is not working and the same thing has happen to the external double layer LG DVD burner,
this is something with windows and device mgr or the drive interface NOT usb
i will get some thermal paste compound and try that fix, i will also try the win7 repair/install from the d; partition
nobody includes windows disc's with laptops anymore
Aren't you getting ahead of yourself? First verify (or eliminate) that it's temperature causing the shutdown.Pull! Bang! Darn!
Focus, son, FOCUS.
Speedfan. FOCUS. It does not load crap, it almost always works regardless of hardware, it is a tool used by professionals. Like me.
Overheating problem. FOCUS. You do know this can permanently damage your CPU?
If you want to chase your tail and waste your time, that's fine - your problem, your choice.
However - I am honestly about out of patience. You have done almost none of the important things you need to do, and now you are starting to waste MY time.
If I could get my hands on this box I'd be DONE long ago. The original problem would be NAILED inside of 15 minutes, an hour or two TOPS for the whole ball of wax. Most likely a lot less.
So far, you thought you had a software problem when it is almost certainly hardware, and also thought you had a hardware problem when it is, again, almost certainly software. Not bagging on you for not knowing these things, but what you should understand by now is that your ideas on how to proceed are not grounded in good diagnostic procedure.
Mine are. It ain't braggin' if you can do it.
Now, ground rules. Temp test results by your next post, and nothing else. FYI, doing ANY software re-install with a flaky CPU is a VERY bad idea.
It's up to you, like I said, I have other things to do, and I usually don't deal with this level of frustration without being paid for it.
When you cleaned your laptop did you actually check the air intake grill, you might have to partially disassemble the air ducting to get access to it, with my laptop I've often found that the fan may be clean the grill/fins have a carpet of hair and dust.
man .. i'm not a nubie
i built my first computer from a kit 30yrs ago
i used to write software for the c-64 and vic-20
and other systems
yes the grill is clean,
I never said it was a heat issue
people here are telling me its a heat issue
the shut down under stress/heavy use is the initial problem
the new problem is the lack of cd/dvd drive access
i 'think' the 'shut down' has caused a windows 7 , file corruption issue
I got pass my initial thoughts of problem with shrink wen the pc failed the torture stress test
BTW speedfan is a 'widget' that my pc will not open/install
aren't widgets an apple mac thing, my win7 LENOVO wants to look on the web for something to 'run' the widget
I appreciate help, but we need to keep the issues and who said what .... correct
Last edited by theewizard; 13th Dec 2012 at 00:38.
Good luck to you, I'm done.
OK, could not resist to chime in on this one!!
theewizard, for someone who built their own computer, and wrote software, you could not determine how not to install the yahoo toolbar? It even said you can opt out right under download link!
Additional software may be offered to you via opt-in ads during the installation process
I did not see anything on Speedfan site about a widget!!!!! I just downloaded an exe file from their site!!!!
I am a looooong time visitor / reader, not too much on posting, and have learned tons from this site!!
They ALL give GOOD advice and it would not have hurt to try out what Nelson37 suggested!! Thanks to all by the way!!Fun in the sun, Oh no my friend, Fun on the sun!
base line, nothing but a few browser windows open, been on for about 45min
i bought the thermal heatsink CPU grease, and will re-do everything
and see if that cures the stress test problem
i would love to run a temp test
maybe it was too late at night, too tired, or maybe i'm just getting old
i did not see anything about op out of the tool bar install
I HATE sneaky crap like that
i found the speedfan.exe
i just 'LLLUUUUVVV' suggestions that say try this 'software'
and then don't bother to provide the link to the thing they swear is so good, and you have do a Google search late night only to find its not the correct thing, or loaded with bloat garbage
then they want to rip you a new one for NOT getting it and providing the results
its very nice that this forum Automatically provides links for 'mentioned' video programs
but it has made people lazy regarding posting and providing links for stuff not on or linked too by this site
people only see a One dimensional view .. theirs
Last edited by theewizard; 13th Dec 2012 at 18:11.
i did some searching on cpu temps
and it appears my readings are at or very near critical temps
I will take it apart and hopefully the new thermal transfer grease will fix the shut down stress problem
if that works, i can then try to repair the dvd drive problem
Use EXTREME CAUTION in separating the CPU from the heatsink. You have cooked the crap out of the paste and it may have bonded strongly to the CPU itself. Laptop chip mounts can be fragile, especially after being repeatedly overheated. Use a plastic probe or tool to gently and gradually separate. Credit card or drivers license or thin smooth plastic knife can work.
It may be advisable but I hesitate to recommend dismounting the CPU and heatsink together, and separating OFF the board, then re-install CPU.
It is now essential that you execute a Single Keystroke and enter the system BIOS. You NEED TO KNOW what the thermal shutdown temperatures are set to. Look for any logs that might have recorded these. If necessary, get the specs for your model, whatever it may be, and find out the factory defaults.
You have not only hit that limit repeatedly, but managed to run a program Specifically Designed to reach and EXCEED those numbers. You now need what amounts to an educated guess as to the probability of permanent CPU or other mobo components damage and their possible connection to other current and future system component failures.
Realistically, it's already fairly high, and depends on EXACTLY how hot it actually got, (which is what those settings in that BIOS thingy that somebody keeps mentioning will tell us) and how close those numbers are to mfgr's actual specs on that particular chip, which somebody would have to do something highly labor intensive, like a Google search, to find out.
before doing the thermal repair it shut down at 80c, according to speedfan anything above 50c is warmer thn it should be
the heat sink popped right off, no problem
the old compound was very dry and thick
i used a plastic 'rewards card' to clean it off then used alcohol o clean and prep both surfaces
reinstalled using the new thermal paste/grease
it is running slightly cooler unfortunately not cool enough
and it takes a few minutes to drop back from near 70c to below 50c
the green check mark comes back at 46c
it does seem that the cpu is permanently damaged
at idle with nothing going on the temp is 35c, but the hd is warm
i don't know why, unless it has been heat damaged
but that is not the big worry, that would be cheap to replace compared to a new laptop
Last edited by theewizard; 15th Dec 2012 at 00:35.
the fan is nOT operating correctly
i have had it shut down and not run when the speedfan and open hardware monitor say the cpu temp is 50c
i have the bottom cover off the laptop and setting directly over a fan from a cooler pad
BTW this laptop has 'always' been on this cooler pad/stand since day 1
i have ordered a NEW FAN and New heat sink on line to replace these
only 400 miles away should arrive in a few days
using my Xoom tablet for the time being, pardon the typos
New fan and heatsink is very likely a COMPLETE waste of money and time. They won't fit any other model and it does not sound like they have anything at all to do with your current problem.
It the CPU really did auto-shutdown at 50C I'd need to repeat that a few times, while carefully controlled, with a few other steps, but you're pretty much toast. New fan ain't gonna keep you below that and won't change the sensor reading.
There is a place I would go for more direct temp info and possibly the actual shutdown limit number, but that is apparently a door you refuse to open for some reason.
I would remove the hard drive, open the back of the laptop, check the heatsink mounts VERY CAREFULLY AND THOROUGHLY, check for too much paste, put a strong desk fan blowing on the heatsink, boot to the BIOS, and if necessary MANUALY check temp with my finger. Digital thermometer or other available reading preferable.
Once you verify that it is, in fact, shutting down at a CPU temp of 50C, it now becomes a crap-shoot of replacing a bad CPU onto a possibly damaged board, replacing BOTH the board and CPU in a laptop, or getting an entirely new PC.
The torture test may have killed it.
then FAN was off at 50c when it should have been running .. 80c was the last observed value before shut down during the stress test before removing the heatsink and trying to improve the heat transfer ... the nEW parts are OEM for this G560 lenovo laptop it's worth $42 in parts to repair, ... the fan is NOT operating correctly... BTW i have tried like Hell to get into bios and get the temp info and fan settings accroding to the lenovo forums pushing delete at startup is suppose to get you to the menu for bios access well on this laptop that doesn't work, neither does F2 , F1 or anyother key i have tried
current temps with one FF window with 3 tabs
no youtube or other video
temps rise fast if i try to get any real work done
Following this thread is lke that old joke...
Patient: "Doctor, it hurts when I do this!"
Doctor: "Then stop doing that!"
Please listen to what Nelson37 is telling you. STOP DOING THAT (stressing your laptop)!
That said, here's how to get into the BIOS directly from the Lenovo G560 manual: "Note: To enter BIOS Setup Utility, press F2 when the Lenovo logo appears on the screen while the computer is starting up."
And here's a link to the manual http://support.lenovo.com/en_US/guides-and-manuals/detail.page?DocID=UM012858
Note: I just checked my Lenovo N858 and there doesn't seem to be any temp readings.
Follow Nelson37's instructions above your last posts and wait for his next reply before stressing your (probably already damaged) laptop any more.
As mentioned before, FOCUS. Griping about people not giving direct links to recommended software is indicative of your lack of focus. It took 20 seconds to do a google search for "G560 lenovo manual", to find the link to the manual linked above. You've been consistently jumping to conclusions without taking the time to FOCUS on what you're being told.
Years ago I was advised that sales is 80% listening and 20% talking. I've found that holds true for so many other aspects of life. Listen far more than you talk and you'll find you get things done quicker and easier!
who's stressing anything
most of my posting is being done via my Xoom tablet
and as the photo showed, 32c is cool and the tablet is NOT being stressed
the 80c hot shut down temp, came from me to getting him some temp readings
the 50c NO fan, when it show be on, was a follow up, after doing the 'replacement grease' repair
my replacement parts have shipped today and should arrive soon
so i can do a 'hopefully' sucessful repair
if it doesn't work out.. then i'll be shopping for a new laptop
and as i stated the F2 does NOT get me into BIOS
been there tried that , it does not work