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  1. Member
    Join Date: Oct 2012
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    Hi.
    I have a Philips BDP2700 and i have upgraded the recent firmware, that comes with that infernal Cinavia protection. Now, some movies i play are blocked because of it.



    Does anyone know how can i downgrade it or bypass Cinavia? Thanks!
    Last edited by X__Alien; 29th Oct 2012 at 20:57. Reason: Wrong name
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  2. Member hech54's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by X__Alien View Post
    Hi.
    I have a Samsung BDP2700 and i have upgraded the recent firmware, that comes with that infernal Cinavia protection. Now, some movies i play are blocked because of it.



    Does anyone know how can i downgrade it or bypass Cinavia? Thanks!
    Is this a joke?
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  3. Member
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    Why are you saying it's a joke?

    English is not my native language, so if it's a grammar mistake, i apologise.
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  4. Member
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    Originally Posted by X__Alien View Post
    Why are you saying it's a joke?

    English is not my native language, so if it's a grammar mistake, i apologise.
    I swear I am going to lose my mind if another guy posts here in fluent English and apologizes for his "bad" or "terrible" English.

    DO NOT post a freakin' apology!

    Your post reads like a joke because no BluRay disc you bought should be blocked by Cinavia. Now if you are telling us that BluRay discs you didn't buy are blocked, you are probably going to violate our rules on discussing "warez".

    I have no idea if you can downgrade the firmware or not, but this is not always possible.
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  5. Member
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    What if i made a .mkv copy of my own bluray disc, just in case... and that .mkv is blocked after 20 min of playing... does this violate any rule?
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  6. Member leghorn's Avatar
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    In this case I guess it doesn't violate rules, but you should've read other post prior to posting this. Check out this link or search the web for related articles. Don't know about downgrading firmware. But there's no Cinavia workaround yet.
    Das Leben ist eine Nebelwand voller Rasierklingen. (C. Bukowski)
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  7. Member
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    Thanks leghorn. I have read that article before, and i have already patroled the internet about this subject and theres little or no help about it. It's really a problem to many people.

    No cracks are available and Samsung doesn't give us the downgrade option...
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  8. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Then that means you are STUCK. Either don't use your MKV backups anymore (and only use your BD originals), or buy a different (NON-SAMSUNG, SONY) BD player that doesn't have Cinavia.

    Scott
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  9. But there's no Cinavia workaround yet.
    Can you explain to the casual reader. Does this mean that certain Bluray disks can't be copied even with Fengtao software?
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  10. Member hech54's Avatar
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    Has anyone Googled a
    Originally Posted by X__Alien View Post
    Samsung BDP2700
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  11. Member
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    Originally Posted by hech54 View Post
    Has anyone Googled a
    Originally Posted by X__Alien View Post
    Samsung BDP2700
    This one:

    http://www.netvaruhuset.com/se/philips-philips-bdp2700-bluray-spelare-p-1223.html
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  12. Member hech54's Avatar
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    Philips.
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  13. Member
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    Originally Posted by hech54 View Post
    Philips.
    Thats right, Philips! Feeling dumb right now!
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  14. Member
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    Originally Posted by jimdagys View Post
    But there's no Cinavia workaround yet.
    Can you explain to the casual reader. Does this mean that certain Bluray disks can't be copied even with Fengtao software?
    It means that Cinavia cannot be removed. Cinavia protected discs can be copied, but the copying preserves Cinavia. The only thing that MIGHT (it is unclear) remove Cinavia is if you convert the audio to different lossy format and do some filtering to remove any sounds above the human range of hearing. All the evidence to date suggests that Cinavia uses an audio watermark that is beyond the range of normal human hearing. Any Cinavia protected discs that are ripped and burned will contain Cinavia in the burned copies and any player that respects Cinavia will fail to play the disc.

    The OP's experience of MKV playback stopping after 20 minutes corresponds to how Cinavia works.

    And we don't know crap about Fengtao but given that DVDFab and AnyDVD have been unable to defeat Cinavia, you're probably betting on the wrong horse if you honestly believe that Fengtao has solved this problem.
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  15. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    He hasn't solved the problem. Here are his words:
    UPDATE: The following text has been edited to include the information about latest PS3 firmware.
    The following applies to fw1.60 up to fw4.00 only, so if you want to benefit from this solution do not update your console!

    The first solution to disable Cinavia came from DVDFab. It is a way of creating backups so they don’t trigger Cinavia. This solution is useful for PS3 users who are the most affected by Cinavia so far. What makes it a great solution is that the disc is much like the original (with menus), a protected backup so the Cinavia-enabled player will see it as trusted source and will play it back just like the original. People have made protected (isos) backups in the past, but those had the disadvantage that they only worked with the programs that made them; well, these protected backups are supposed to work on standalone players too.

    Technical details: the discs created are called BDMV-REC as they are AACS protected recordable BDMV. Another solution would be AACS protected BDAV, like the ones produced by Japanese BD recorders.

    Requirements:
    • a Playstation 3 console with a firmware version smaller or equal to 4.00!
    • original Blu-ray disc with Cinavia watermark. DVDFab and DVDFab Passkey will tell if you have such a disc
    • a BD-RE (recommended for initial tests) or BD-R disc to store the protected backup
    • a BD writer
    • DVDFab and updated writing software. DVDFab checks for it anyway
    Pros:
    • It is a solution to disable Cinavia, exactly as it is disabled for the original disc, due to (AACS) protection layer being active.
    • DVDFab does all the tricks involved to create such a protected backup at a push of a button.
    • The disc can preserve all the original features like menus, interactivity, BD-Live.
    • Broad firmware support: PS3 users with firmware from 1.60 and up to 4.00 can use BDMV-REC discs.
    • At any time, DVDFab or DVDFab Passkey can be used to remove the protection, if you need to.
    • This is kind of an official solution, because it involves support from AACS standards, the same standards that force adoption of Cinavia
    Cons:
    • Due to the change in AACS LA licensing, starting with firmware 4.10, Playstation 3 have degraded the status of Protected Backups (BDMV-REC) to regular copies without the power to disable Cinavia. They are no more in the Trusted Source list.
    • BDMV-REC is not implemented by all players. BD Players implemented Blu-ray standards as they saw fit to market their products. Not all of them have implemented the standard that BDMV-REC is based on, AACS Recordable BDMV, fully. PS3, being one of the best players, did.
    • If not on PS3, we encourage users to check the playback support for “AACS protected recordable BDMV” either with BD Player support or with a BD-RE.
    • PC players support protected BDAV, but not BDMV-REC.
    • Cinavia is not removed, just disabled. Well, whatever works We tried to provide you with a solution asap and this was the quickest.

    Rant: While there was no technical need, we implemented this solution so only original discs could be backed up with this method. Unfortunately, AACS LA didn’t seem to notice that or they were set not to allow people to backup their own, purchased, discs at any cost, including the change of licensing in the last minute, before the “big launch”, plus the change in code of PS3 and other players that have Cinavia implemented already. Too bad, that makes us even more determined to remove the watermark.

    We were planning to add support for the above-mentioned protected BDAV which would give a much broader adoption among BD Players, without having all the features: no menu, no interactivity, no BD-live, simply a Movie-only format. But since all AACS-protected Recordables have been degraded it does not make much sense now.


    Last but not least, we are also working on a removal solution
    This assumes that a player will only look on NON-TRUSTED SOURCES for Cinavia. Rather, it could look for Cinavia on ALL sources and only defeat it with TRUSTED SOURCES (which must have AACS, BD+, etc). Fengtao may be able to "fake" AACS encoding, but I don't think he can create fake BD+, etc. Those are created in NON-USER Recordable areas of a replicated disc, so you can't fake it on a BD-R/RE.

    And by his own admission, Cinavia isn't truly defeated, just temporarily extended to these other discs (which sometimes don't work anyway).

    Reminds me of the Fengtao BD3D backup debacle...

    Scott
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  16. Member fritzi93's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    Reminds me of the Fengtao BD3D backup debacle...
    Oh, I missed that. I still haven't got around to trying a BD3D backup with DVDFab. Would you mind elaborating?

    Anyway, I have a couple BDs that supposedly have Cinavia, and I made backups anyway. They play fine on all my pre-Cinavia standalones (purchased before February 2012). Also MKVs made from them play fine direct from external hard drive to TV, of course. Maybe the OP should just make MKV backups and get a media player?
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  17. Member
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    Originally Posted by fritzi93 View Post

    Anyway, I have a couple BDs that supposedly have Cinavia, and I made backups anyway. They play fine on all my pre-Cinavia standalones (purchased before February 2012). Also MKVs made from them play fine direct from external hard drive to TV, of course. Maybe the OP should just make MKV backups and get a media player?
    This is not a bad suggestion. However, the following needs to be kept under consideration.
    1) As I stated before, Cinavia appears to be an audio watermark and unless the audio is converted and Cinavia is removed, even MKV backups will preserve Cinavia watermarking.
    2) While currently no media players that I know of honor Cinavia, the situation could change in the future.
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  18. Member fritzi93's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jman98 View Post
    While currently no media players that I know of honor Cinavia, the situation could change in the future.
    Yeah, there's that. Cinavia is still present on the backup or MKV.

    I wonder though if Sony, et. al. have the muscle to strongarm companies not part of the Blu-Ray Consortium. (All the big electronics companies are members.) If a smaller non-member company doesn't make BD standalones, what's to stop them from continuing to make media players more, ahem, consumer-friendly? As they do now, AFAIK, though I don't own one.

    It just seems unlikely on balance. I'd be interested in other members' opinions on this.
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  19. Member
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    Originally Posted by fritzi93 View Post

    I wonder though if Sony, et. al. have the muscle to strongarm companies not part of the Blu-Ray Consortium. (All the big electronics companies are members.) If a smaller non-member company doesn't make BD standalones, what's to stop them from continuing to make media players more, ahem, consumer-friendly? As they do now, AFAIK, though I don't own one.
    Congress could pass laws (let's be honest - big business has bought and purchased Congress) that could impose restrictions on such players. That would lead to people having to pay more to import players made in countries that ignore such restrictions.

    Court cases we can't predict at present could lead to a restriction in what media players can do.

    I'm not telling you that these are likely events as I'd guess that both are actually unlikely to happen, but you did ask "what's to stop them" and this is "what's to stop them".
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  20. There's a company that claims to have stumbled across a crack for Cinavia. It was discussed here a few weeks ago:
    http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/349402-Cinavia-may-be-broken-by-Pixbyte?highlight=cinavia
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  21. Originally Posted by fritzi93 View Post
    While currently no media players that I know of honor Cinavia, the situation could change in the future.
    This is why that if and when Cinavia is present on every disc purchased and on every media and blu-ray player I'll just build an HTPC. With free software like XBMC it can't be forced on it.
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  22. if and when Cinavia is present on every disc purchased and on every media and blu-ray player
    That will put DVDFab and AnyDVD out of business unless they can figure a way to crack it.
    Also, I could see newer Bluray players stop playing legit disks due to false positives.
    Last edited by jimdagys; 30th Oct 2012 at 09:16.
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  23. Cinavia will not stop copying BD's, downloading movies.

    It is just an nuisance that will introduce more different that BD players in households, some people here on the forum think that BD should be some folk standard, it is not anymore. Get cheapest BD player (no name) just for BD's and then other box that allows you to play what you want to play.

    It is just a step for other future control mechanisms I'm sure they are being developed every moment and possibly are going to be pushed forward by our elected politicians, or not even elected (Europe).
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  24. Member
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    If the legislators around the world have made it illegal to backup your discs in the first place, will there not be a day coming where DVD Fab and AnyDVD are shut down anyway?
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  25. Originally Posted by Tom Saurus View Post
    If the legislators around the world have made it illegal to backup your discs in the first place, will there not be a day coming where DVD Fab and AnyDVD are shut down anyway?
    They'd have been shut down long ago if they were in the USA. They're located in China and Antigua and Barbuda. The Western authorities can't touch them.
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  26. Member
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    No-name Blu-Ray players may still recognize Cinavia. A requirement for Cinavia compliance was added to the AACS license, so every Blu-Ray player produced since February 1, 2012 must implement Cinavia. If someone wants to avoid Cinavia, they will have to use an older player that is known not to implement Cinavia and never update the firmware.
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  27. Member
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    jagabo: That is interesting and for these two Companies vital that they are located in the countries mentioned. I suppose though if TPTB want to shut them down bad enough, they can get all the payment companies to blacklist them like WikiLeaks and thus starve them of funds.
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  28. Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    No-name Blu-Ray players may still recognize Cinavia. A requirement for Cinavia compliance was added to the AACS license, so every Blu-Ray player produced since February 1, 2012 must implement Cinavia. If someone wants to avoid Cinavia, they will have to use an older player that is known not to implement Cinavia and never update the firmware.
    That "no name" or cheap player was mentioned in a sense to not give Sony and all those big players a $$$ more if it is not necessary . BD player for BD discs only (posibly Netflix and similar as a bonus). And to get another media player for whatever else. There is always a free will not to buy, what else would have any impact at all?

    The idea to get one player that does it all doesn't work. Except some Dune device maybe ...
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  29. Member
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    Originally Posted by _Al_ View Post
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    No-name Blu-Ray players may still recognize Cinavia. A requirement for Cinavia compliance was added to the AACS license, so every Blu-Ray player produced since February 1, 2012 must implement Cinavia. If someone wants to avoid Cinavia, they will have to use an older player that is known not to implement Cinavia and never update the firmware.
    That "no name" or cheap player was mentioned in a sense to not give Sony and all those big players a $$$ more if it is not necessary . BD player for BD discs only (posibly Netflix and similar as a bonus). And to get another media player for whatever else. There is always a free will not to buy, what else would have any impact at all?

    The idea to get one player that does it all doesn't work. Except some Dune device maybe ...
    Pure stupidity as boycotts go. The only people who give a crap about Cinavia are those who make/download DVD rips or Blu-Ray rips, and want to use a Blu-Ray player to play them, which is an insignificant percentage of the market for Blu-Ray players.

    I'm certainly not interested "punishing" LG or Panasonic simply because they were forced into compliance by a technology license that they have to buy just to make a working Blu-Ray player.
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  30. I do not suppose that people will boycott Sony products , it is just my personal feeling and I do not seriously expect some mass happening in this matter. Of course it is stupid for most, but not for me.

    I do not give a damn about Cinavia, and I do not need to download movies from web also,I have media player simply to be ableto play my video from camcorder since early 2009. Never needed to burn BD disc. But I am on the same ship as to have one BD player and separate media player as the OP should do. Never ever recommended to anybody to buy something if he asks something to be fixed, it always sounds kind of stupid, but this seems to be an exception that works.
    Last edited by _Al_; 30th Oct 2012 at 16:08.
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