Hi, A buddy of mine has several hundred VHS Movies that he would like to copy onto an DVD.. I have an JVC Machine that will do
dubbing in both directions.. It is an DR-MV99B.. When I try to dub from VHS to the DVD, the Machine states that this VHS is Copyright
protected and will Not Dub it.. I have heard that there are some older machines they will do this job.. Maybe some older Panasonic's..
Can anyone advise me on this and provide Name and Model numbers?? He does Not have an Computer..
All help is appreciated..
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Some of the old Liteon DVD recorders:
But a video stabilizer or time base corrector may be a better idea.
The older LiteOn patches didn't really work that well.
The only way to flawless remove the signal noise is with a TBC.
The LiteOn, like all those cheapo filters, damages the luma, and it tends to flicker or skew levels.
Even if you could track down something like a LiteOn, the models you'd need are old and were none too reliable to begin with. So forget the notion you'll be able to do this project with an automated, "set-it-and-forget-it" combo VHS/DVD unit. You need something to clear the recording lockout signal, but DVD/VHS combo recorders don't have the internal/external connections to attach it.
You will need to get an external VCR and a VHS "protection filter" like this one. You can get a decent second-hand Panasonic or Sharp VCR almost anywhere for almost no money, certainly under $25 (check Craig's List, or ask your friend if he still has his VCR). The filter box costs under $30. Connect the video line output of the external VCR to the line input of the filter box, connect the line output of the filter box to the video line input of your JVC, and connect the audio outputs of the VCR directly to the audio inputs of your JVC. For each tape, you'd need to manually press "play" on the VCR and "Record" on the DVD section of your JVC. When the tape gets to the end, stop both machines.
This is how 99 out of 100 people dub their commercial VHS collection to DVD. A skilled technician like LordSmurf will say this gear will give you "crappy" results, but "quality" is relative to your technical skills and budget: to achieve what VideoHelp experts feel is "excellent" quality requires a hard-to-find $300 specialty VCR and a $200-500 Time Base Corrector, and/or a powerhouse computer with complicated software. These things are beyond the budget, patience and skill of most consumers- start with the inexpensive spare VCR and the $30 filter, and see if your friend finds the DVD copies acceptable. If not, you can tell your friend he'll need to drop another $500+ for what he'd probably see as a small improvement. When people discover just how much money, time and skill they need to make "perfect" tape transfers to DVD, they usually (and quickly) decide to settle for "good enough" instead.
Extra effort and fancy hardware is certainly worthwhile for personal family camcorder tapes, or rare movies or TV shows unavailable except from your old tapes. But if most of your friend's collection is popular Hollywood studio tapes, attempting to make "perfect DVD dubs" is silly: most movies released on VHS are available as discount studio DVDs @ $5 to $10 at chain stores or Amazon or eBay. The discount studio DVDs are far better quality than any VHS dub made on $2000 worth of computer hardware: your friend should go thru the tapes and evaluate how many he seriously loves so much that the DVD copies need to be "flawless." If he's like most of us, out of 300 tapes there are maybe 50 he loves and 250 that he'd likely never find the time to watch again- he just likes having them in his library. Buy the Top 50 as studio DVDs, dub the rest with the inexpensive used VCR and $30 filter, and live happily ever after.
Last edited by orsetto; 3rd Oct 2012 at 03:56.
While not particularly relevant to this thread, I just wanted to say that I appreciate both Orsetto and LordSmurfs advice in this area so much. You guys are like two sides of the same coin in terms of philosophy, and you may not agree on everything, but in my own experience both are equally valid approaches, with different risks/rewards, steeped in a lot of actual experience and wisdom.
I'm definitely in the "I don't care if I have to spend twice the time and money for another 15% improvement as long as it satiates my OCD" camp a lot of the time, but Orsettos posts remind me that sometimes I should let it go, because it is nice to see the sun once in awhile and have a shot at actually finishing my VHS conversions before I die lol
Last edited by robjv1; 3rd Oct 2012 at 04:32.
orsetto, I have that filter, had it for about 10 years and it works, I bought a Honestech VHS to DVD 5.0 Deluxe software about 4 months ago and I'm just now getting around to trying it, The VCR tapes I'm doing are not copy protected, Should I still use the filter or wouldn't that make any difference or is there a better way , thanks.
tarzan54 - Anytime you record to a DVD recorder from VHS tape there is always a chance that your source recording will have glitches in it and the DVD recorder will interpret those as Macrovision and stop recording your tape. It's your choice. If you don't want to risk redoing recordings then you should use the TBC on every recording you make in my opinion. Maybe you made those recordings on a perfect VCR back in the day, but I can tell you from personal experience that many of my old recordings weren't made on very good VCRs and I definitely need a TBC as I have tracking issues that can't be fixed simply by adjusting the tracking on my VCR and I have a pretty good quality JVC VCR to play the tapes on.
Thanks jman98, My tapes or old home made tapes, I'm going to try to use the Honestech to record to my hard drive and see how the results look, But after doing some searching I wish I would have spent the money on a video capture card, If I do get a video capture card would it make a difference or do you still recommend a TBC?
I've been extremely happy with the Hauppague Colossus card. It contains a hidden TBC that you can activate via a Windows registry entry. You can do a web search to get the information on how to do it. The TBC in the Colossus has been sufficient to deal with my tracking issues and I have successfully recorded some old commercial VHS tapes that I think have Macrovision on them. Do note that the Colossus ONLY records video in H.264 format and the audio defaults ONLY to AAC unless you use an optical link AND the source audio is AC3, in which case it will copy the AC3 audio. So the Colossus does not natively record anything compatible with DVD format but I've got a workflow that involves using AviSynth and re-encoding with HCenc to MPEG-2 and converting AAC audio to AC3 via CoolEdit and I'm OK with that.
Thanks again jman98, You sure sound like you know your stuff about this so I'm going to try your suggestions and get a Colossus card and go from there.
Thanks jagabo for posting that site, Sounds like people or having problems updating the drivers for the Hauppague Colossus Card.
The "hidden TBC" being discussed here isn't really a full TBC. There's a discussion at digitalFAQ.com on that, in the forums. Some in-depth discussion on the actual chipsets involved, including some feedback (2nd hand) from the manufacturers. So be wary of thinking that's a TBC replacement.
Orsetto, those little 9V boxes go back to the 80s or 90s, and still have color-altering issues. It's maybe a 50/50 chance it works on any given tape. When it does work, you need to watch for luminance increases, decreases, and flickers. Quite often, it'll outright boost the hell out of the luma, washing everything out. To some people, that's "fine" or "good enough", but it's still not high quality. It's passable at best, like a VCD or something from Youtube.
Even the costly Grex devices do that.
Even buying a TBC, using it, and reselling it is better than buying a cheapy filter. On a good TBC, you can get at least 90% of your money back.
I'm NOT knocking lordsmurf, but ...
1) The Hauppauge TBC has worked perfectly for my needs.
2) His standards are beyond what 99% of our members are really and truly interested in.
I've had no issues updating the drivers, but I refuse to update the version of ArcSoft ShowBiz that comes with the device as the newer versions do not allow you to set the bitrate for captures, although they do allow you to set some other features such as level which may or may not be of interest. Not being able to set bit rate is a "no go" for me, so I use the ShowBiz version that comes on the install CD.
Yeah, that's the main thing I have noticed about these devices too. My father was unable to record stuff off his DVR, so he ended up purchasing a few of these types of devices from Grex and a couple of other companies until he found one that wasn't completely flaky. All of them, including the one he kept really did unpleasant things to the image quality, almost always pumping up the image too high and washing it out. A couple of them made very hazy, gaudy recordings. I understand why a full blown TBC is an investment people don't wanna make, but is there another standalone device out there with reasonable quality control that is more transparent? Maybe someone should buy up a bunch of TBCs and rent them out on here for projects.
Last edited by robjv1; 3rd Oct 2012 at 12:20.
Rentals are not realistic, because of the pace of most projects. The best solution is buy, used, resell. I know several TBCs have been bought/sold almost same-day the digitalFAQ marketplace sub-forum. I've scanned eBay a lot for good TBCs, but most of them go same-day as well. (I always find them in the closed/ended searches.) It's not like it's going to devalue like a DSLR or laptop -- these things are somewhat obsolete-proofed.
The bigger problem is people being a cheapskates. I remember when a decent VHS VCR was $200 in the late 1990s -- not that long ago. A complete and utter piece of crap Kmart VCR was $110. So I fail to see the skiddishness of spending $200 for what long-term is a defacto rental/return (not even mentioning inflation).
What would you say the average pace of a project is? I have a pretty substantial collection, so for me it's a several year deal, but what do you think it is for the average person? A couple of months or more?
Months to years. If I had to give a real range, I'd say something like 8-36 months for the DIY, for the average number of tapes (less than 50). Learning what to get, and how to use it, is the most time consuming part of it. Even lazy cheapskates need a lot of time, though they have junk to show for their expense and effort.
You're probably more like me -- decades. I'm already well past 10+ years now, for my own stuff. Then again, video was my serious hobby some 10-15 years prior to digital formats. I'm not yet in a rush, though I have gotten a bit antsy about certain projects.
Interesting! I figured you'd be the one to ask.
Yeah, I'm at about 8 years at this point with my collection. I've re-done the majority of those early projects as well over the last three or four years, as you'd expect. It's really hard not to do so, once you learn another key concept or get some better equipment. Watching that old footage, you start to see the mistakes and bad choices that you made -- I had a really bad tendency to oversharpen in my early captures, adding noticable grain patterns to some footage. Then you see the potential for improvement and all of the sudden the bar gets raised a little higher.
My biggest flaw, which I have improved upon quite a bit this last year is having the discipline to stick to one or two projects and/or to track my progress better when I take on more. I have a tendency to get involved in several at a time in various stages of completion, but sometimes losing track of small details and ending up redoing something that didn't need to be redone.
Your points are well taken, IF the person in fact wants to achieve that level of quality and is prepared to deal with their head being screwed on backwards while they try sort thru the labyrinth of expensive "high-end" VCRs available only from charlatans on eBay, pricey TBCs whose new-in-box performance ranges from mediocre to lousy, or get mired in the dozens of PC video board options and the 20 different video format optimizations they offer (which of course vary from card to card and are significantly affected by related software choices).
I don't like DVD/VHS combos: never have, never will. But a huge number of them are in use by consumers who absolutely love the concept, even if the results aren't top-notch. These people shouldn't be dismissed as ignorant cheapskates: they simply have a different take on their video collections and/or other priorities in life. Put another way, suppose someone has never used a camera other than the one built into their iPhone, loves the convenience of it and is happy with the PQ compromise (if they notice at all), and posts to a photography forum with a question about a simple effect they want to achieve. Do you give that person a link to a free iPhone app that will do the effect, or do you tell them their iPhone camera is crap and that the only acceptable way to take pictures is to use second-hand Leica R lenses with an imported Chinese mount adapter on a used Nikon D3x?
The analogy is exaggerated to make a point: some of the advice thrown around here lately comes off as more elitist than helpful. If the person is asking, or even hinting, how to improve their tape transfers- fair enough, we can dump the full weight of our accumulated wisdom and harebrained Rube Goldberg hardware setups on their willing eager brains. But if the person has been toodling along the past three years, content with their DVD/VHS combo unit, and just now hit a minor bump when trying to dub a few of their old Hollywood tapes, we need to scale our answers to fit the question. The correct answer is the same as its been for the past 30 years: buy one of the battery-operated protection filters. Simple answer, understandable and affordable. Baby steps: let them decide if they like the results or not. If they don't, they'll come back soon enough to ask for upgrade tips. The fact that very very few ever do come back to complain indicates they were fine with the simple basic solution.
Even buying a TBC, using it, and reselling it is better than buying a cheapy filter. On a good TBC, you can get at least 90% of your money back.
Personally, over the years I've found the cheapy 9v battery filters to output FAR cleaner video signals than the expensive gear: no chroma impact, no luma impact, no detail impact. I don't know where the rest of you got your "horrible" 9v filters, but I've never used one that was any worse than an AVT or DataVideo TBC. I've found the TBCs much more disappointing: the three AVTs I've tried were wildly erratic in PQ, the several DataVideos I've had were all soft as cheese even thru the S-Video jacks. I kept one DataVideo to help with incredibly bad tapes and as a hedge against future cable TV protections, but for old average studio VHS? Less is more, and the cheap filter wins.
I'm slowly transferring nearly 4000 VHS to digital: I'm a video packrat and willing to spend money (within reason) if I can get better quality. But even I frequently compromise on a less-than-perfect workflow when I know a subgroup of tapes isn't critical. Most of my tapes were recorded from analog cable service, plagued with assorted technical issues, so I need a wide range of hardware to deal with it all. My own tape issues are often best addressed by the TBC/DNR circuits built into my three top VCRs (Panasonic AG1980, MGA2000, and JVC101), any one of which costs more than the average new DVD recorder or PC capture card. Its a lot of work and a brain-drain for sure: so wherever possible, I purchase studio-issue DVDs to replace my old pre-recorded studio VHS. IMO, its ridiculous to waste time and money making copies of things like "Forrest Gump," "Godfather" or "Batman Returns" when you can pick up pristine studio versions for $3.99 during the holiday sales (even less if you shop for used DVDs).
Last edited by orsetto; 3rd Oct 2012 at 17:07.
Last edited by robjv1; 3rd Oct 2012 at 17:26.
To Mr. Orsetto and All
Tnx 4 UR reply..
My MCM catalog came a couple of days ago..
TBC; will this device defeat the Copyright on the VHS tape?? Digital Video Stabilizer MCM Part #: 80-4280
I own between 12 and 15 JVC VCRs, not counting 3 JVR Combos and 1 Panasonic combo.. All my Combos have the Digital Tuner built in, that made it very convient when I only had an Analog TV.. I have high end models; JVC HR-s7600Us and s9600Us and s9800Us and s9900Us and 1 HR-s9911U.. I think most of these have TBC built into them, not sure.. Do U think 1 of these will do a good job of playing the VHS tapes??
I assume using a good VCR and the Digital Video Stabilizer will produce a good signal to the DVD Writer plus losing/defeating the Copyright protection.. Am I correct??
@orsetto, I hear what you're saying, but I'd rather do a little "Educating Rita" and raise a consumer's level of appreciation (and expectation) than to spoon feed more "candy" to an impatient kid. Sounds a little elitist, I know, but I guarantee you, the professors that I admired in college were the ones that set the bar HIGH, not the ones who just gave out A's for showing up.
And if this site were to devolve to the point of mainly just doing what you suggest, I'd be out of here.
That will answer part of your question.
Tnx, Mr. Lordsmurf,
Lots of information; I could even understand some of it..
Still would like conformation that the external TBC that was suggested will defeat the Copyright on the old VHS Tapes..
It is less than $30.00.. Which is Great if it does!!
Here's a way of looking at it:
Full-frame TBCs "throw out" the vertical interval portion (the part that happens BETWEEN the picture, that you don't see) of the signal and regenerates it with clean, synthetic VI and uses a frame sync (buffer) to cleanly place the Picture with the VI.
Because Macrovision, etc messes with the timing, phase & level of the VI, since a TBC is throwing out the (monster) baby with the bathwater - NO Macrovision anymore.
Items that claim to work on MV: if they don't do this process above (whether they call themselves TBCs or not), will NOT completely remove the MV (because it's a persistant, pernicious bastard).
BTW, be forwarned: since the VI is completely replaced, you will have also lost Line21 NTSC Closed-caption signals, should they be there (unless you "capture & divert" their signal prior to the TBC).
Well maybe I asked the incorrect question.. The mcmelectronics product 80-4280 Video Stabilizer; will it allow me to use 1 VCR with the Video Stabilize, then input the the Signal into an DVD Writer; can I copy an VHS Copyright Protected Tape?? ..