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  1. Has anyone experience of these discs? They promise a lot.

    Everyone Fails Except Millenniata

    According to an independent report performed by the U.S. Department of Defense at China Lake, California, the M-DISC was the only optical disc tested that did not suffer data failure. The discs from Mitsubishi, Verbatim, Taiyo Yuden, Delkin and MAM-A all failed. None of the data was recoverable after the exposure cycle.




    http://millenniata.com/
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  2. Member [_chef_]'s Avatar
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    And you would believe in "reading forever"?
    *** Now that you have read me, do some other things. ***
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  3. The question is even if this works as advertised...will you have a device that can read this disc in 10 years? Forget about 1,000!!
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  4. Member hech54's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CaptainVideo View Post
    The question is even if this works as advertised...will you have a device that can read this disc in 10 years?
    Once written, the M-DISC can be read or played on any quality DVD drive that supports the common DVD+R/RW format. Most DVD drives that were manufactured after 2005 and almost all Blu-ray or BD drives support this format.
    http://millenniata.com/m-disc/
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  5. Member
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    Looks interesting, though they can only be burned on drives with M-DISC compatibility. LG manufacturers the drive which run about $79 and roughly $30 for 10 disks.
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  6. Member hech54's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mail2tom View Post
    Looks interesting, though they can only be burned on drives with M-DISC compatibility. LG manufacturers the drive which run about $79 and roughly $30 for 10 disks.
    I've been using LG drives exclusively for as long as I can remember. The only problem is that all 3 still work perfectly and doubt I will need to replace them anytime soon. I don't burn as much as I used to.
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  7. Member
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    i looked into those a ways back and asked myself a few questions

    do i have data backups from 10 years ago from "regular" quality dvd discs that can still be read?

    answer - yes

    are there other formats that store data and be read past 10 years?

    answer - yes

    examples
    tape backup (which will be around forever)
    quality blank dvd's
    quality blank Blu Ray's

    will any of the stuff i back up onto these M-discs be that important 10 years and beyond?

    answer - not likely ( i see data i've had for years and ask myself.."what did i keep that for?")

    has anyone had these discs 10 years to prove at the bare minimum they'll last a prolonged period of time?

    answer - no

    I would save myself the money and just grab some BR blanks and store stuff like there's no tomorrow

    CaptainVideo
    The question is even if this works as advertised...will you have a device that can read this disc in 10 years? Forget about 1,000!!
    I like this point the best
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  8. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    According to an independent report performed by the U.S. Department of Defense at China Lake, California
    Those tests are crap. Read them. Anybody that understands media quickly sees that the testers were incompetent dipshits. (Hint: Look at the "manufacturers" list, both discs and drives, and be prepared to laugh.) The fact that oxonol wasn't tested at all makes the entire experiment ridiculous and clueless.

    The only people impressed by this name-drop are the ones who skim the headlines only.
    I'm reminded of this: Anatomy of a conspiracy theory by CRACKED

    MCC and TY media still fair better in unbiased testing.

    Some unbiased tests of M-DISC fared about as well as a Princo DVD-R -- it failed past 3GB, and had high jitter. Of course, it was blamed on "manufacturing defects" -- which is just a brush-off in my opinion. Princo could have made the same claim.

    If memory serves correctly, MAM-A used to have a similar bogus test that they touted, years and years ago. And not surprisingly, very similar results ensued -- bad burns, poor quality media, fake IDs, etc.
    Last edited by lordsmurf; 17th Sep 2012 at 09:48.
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  9. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Havent' read the tests yet (I will), but I already know that something's up. I have CD-Rs from ~1995 that still play/read ok. That's 17 years, dude! (and yes, they ARE containing things that I want to still have available 10-50 years from now). High quality media, stored in their containers, in controlled conditions, seem to be correctly following the original manufacturer's claim of ~25-50 years, so so far I'm not worried and have no plans to change my media or ways of doing things.

    Now, if the ad's copy is correct about the technology employed, I think that it's nice to have an alternate form of burning technology (vs. dye or phase-change), regardless. More like to stamped discs. I'm inclined to take them at their word for it in this instance.

    Scott
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  10. Member [_chef_]'s Avatar
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    Yep, thats what I also had in mind.
    P?robably the "earlier quality" CD-Rs are lasting longer than best quality DVDs and BDs.
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  11. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by [_chef_] View Post
    Yep, thats what I also had in mind.
    P?robably the "earlier quality" CD-Rs are lasting longer than best quality DVDs and BDs.
    My oldest discs from 1995-1998 have been showing higher fail rates in recent years. It's always a construction issue -- the foil is tearing away from the dye layer.

    The worst ones are discs stored in wallets. Granted, that's not a good idea for archival storage, but these are test bed discs. But even discs stored properly have shown pinpoint breaks in the foil, including bubbling. I've taken some photos, though it's not an easy task. Even stacking anti-glare filters on a quality macros lens on a quality pro SLR is still tough shooting. I don't have my own microscope rig.
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  12. Member
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    Not exactly new news but Panasonic has the 50 and 100 year discs.
    http://panasonic.net/avc/blu-ray_disc/biz_ideal_media.html
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    I'd love to be a fly on the wall to see what device would play those hundred year old discs a hundred years from now.
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  14. I have a little hands-on experience with the M-discs. I'd have to say kudos for the concept, and eh for the execution. The discs seem cheaply made with very poor scratch resistance. I've seen a few that even have little globs of bonding around the recording side edge. The concept may be valid, but the factory that's currently producing them looks to be shipping out discs that will be falling apart long before their recording layer can be put to the test of time.
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  15. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Steve(MS) View Post
    Not exactly new news but Panasonic has the 50 and 100 year discs.
    http://panasonic.net/avc/blu-ray_disc/biz_ideal_media.html
    The bottom layer of BD-R is so thin that longevity beyond a DVD is unlikely.
    To be blunt, the structure of Blu-ray sucks. The HD-DVD was far, far superior in this regard.
    But structural quality lost out to space and some bribery nonsense.
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  16. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Well that does it for me. No good having a permanent recorded layer if the laser can't get to it through the scratches.

    Scott
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    Oh, I agree, HD-DVD was the way to go, the sony bunch screwed up blu-ray and we (sort of) have to live with it.
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  18. Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    Well that does it for me. No good having a permanent recorded layer if the laser can't get to it through the scratches.

    Scott
    Same here. I won't be investing in more of them.

    Its a shame that the fiscal reality of bringing a new product to market too often leads to a half-baked end result. These will likely be a very small flash-in-the-pan in the professional optical media market.

    Any serious attempt at "archival" optical media has included a hard coat layer to protect all that archival wizardry inside and keep it readable in spite of accidental mishandling. Also goes a long way towards protecting the polycarbonate from aging and losing clarity.
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  19. Hi, folks! Please let me ask you a question. Leaving quality issues aside, Amazon, for instance, claims that an audio CD can be recorded onto an M-Disc....???....isn't an M-Disc actually a DVD? An audio CD recorded onto a DVD is not playable on standalone devices unless we do the "audio on DVD" trick (with an image-wise video counterpart). Maybe they are talking about "MP3 audio CD" on the M-Disc or something, but unless I am lagging behind in today's technology, I am missing what they are saying.

    Carlos Albert
    D-Mak
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    50-100 year storage is a joke.

    The early laserdiscs are now unusable because there's nothing to read them with.

    Even much of the computer data from the first Apollo moon landing is lost because there's nothing to read the paper tapes with.
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  21. Member
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    Send all laser disc's here ... players I have

    Magnetic telemetry tapes were used ... not paper

    Any disc will fail including the m-disc the only two issues that stand out are the quality of materials used and as they say on the site "subjected to the same level of testing" ... if the test was not concurrent then its void.
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    Originally Posted by Disco Makberto View Post
    Hi, folks! Please let me ask you a question. Leaving quality issues aside, Amazon, for instance, claims that an audio CD can be recorded onto an M-Disc....???....isn't an M-Disc actually a DVD?
    Please provide a link on Amazon so we can investigate this. The link in the first post only talks about M-Disc being a DVD disc, so you are correct that this is not valid for audio CD.
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  23. I think I got it now. It is the M-Disc duplicator that is supposed to be compatible with audio CD and not the M-Disc physical disc per se. Please excuse if I may have caused any confusion. Still, if you read this article:

    http://gizmodo.com/5828634/new-stone+like-m+disc-can-be-dipped-in-liquid-nitrogen-and-...and-still-work ,

    people there call the M-Disc "a stone-like CD" which definitely contributed to my earlier disorientation. Why call a DVD a CD? Paraphrasing the old saying: "A DVD is a DVD is a DVD". Why, then, confuse readers by calling it a CD? This reminds me of a friend I used to have back in the 90's when he told me: "Carlos, a DVD is the same as an LD, just smaller". What???

    Carlos Albert
    D-Mak
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  24. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Why read Gizmodo for video news?
    I like Gizmodo, but their coverage of video and optical technology is garbage.
    They just regurgitate the press releases.
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