Pioneer out of business?

[Maldez]

I had heard on another thread over in the Recording forum that Pioneer had gone out of business, explaining why you can no longer find new Pioneer DVD Recorders for purchase.

But in looking for a new Player I see several Pioneer models available. How can this be if the company has gone out of business?

[Noahtuck]

How can this be if the company has gone out of business?

You're assuming that pioneer actually went out of business, or that whoever wrote they did, know's what they are talking about, or that you read it correctly.

Maybe they stopped making stand alone dvd recorders, but I doubt the company as a whole is going anywhere any time soon.......

[Maldez]

I'm certain the "Pioneer is out of business" statement came from orsetto in another thread I had started in the DVD Recording forum.

[MOVIEGEEK]

Pioneer is alive and well, the only thing they got out was the TV business. They made the best TV's but they couldn't compete with the low-end manufacturers.


http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/pioneers-tv-division-hits-dusty-trail

[SLK001]

I'm certain the "Pioneer is out of business" statement came from orsetto in another thread I had started in the DVD Recording forum.

I thought that it was "Pioneer is getting out of the DVD recorder business", which is why you can't find new DVD recorders from Pioneer (but you might be able to grab some that are still in the supply chain). IIRC, they are now selling rebranded Liteon units.

[aedipuss]

they got out of the dvdr drive manufacturing business.

[usually_quiet]

orsetto probably left one or two words out of his statement. Pioneer doesn't make TVs, DVD recorders, and some other things anymore, but they are still in business. ...and Pioneer doesn't make any DVD players for the US anymore. The Pioneer DVD players now being sold in the US are "international" models and black levels from their analog inputs will be wrong.

This thread will tell you why you need to stay away from the "international" Pioneer DVD players https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/346755-anyone-have-color-bright-issues-with-import-Dvd-player

[orsetto]

My remarks of Pioneer being "out of business" in various posts over the last few years were based on the fact that they actually did tank completely, in the sense we in North America once knew Pioneer to be. Every product they were long famous for making was chucked overboard almost instantly in late 2008, leaving the Pioneer name as a shell (much like "Polaroid" or "Nakamichi" are ghosts of what they were 10 years ago).

The old Pioneer is indeed "gone," despite a handful of items like DVD players still lingering around with their nameplate. Like several other audio companies that were household names in the '70s, Pioneer struggled to keep relevant amid the onslaught of the boombox, Walkman and iPod eras. They were heavily invested in LaserDisc, which died the minute DVD launched. They had a very good business for awhile as one of the earliest and best DVD burner and recorder brands, but that eventually evaporated as burners became disposable commodities and interest died for DVD/HDD recorders. Toward the end, too much of their capital was tied in to their high-end Kuro spin on Panasonic's large screen plasma TV systems. They got killed in late 2008 by the dual punch of global economic meltdown combined with the incessant misguided consumer attitude that "plasma is obsolete old hat, LCD is the only way to go in big screen TV."

Reports from CE industry trade press indicated Honda had bought some of Pioneer's ashes to corner and control their supply of car stereos, while Sharp bought the dregs of Pioneer Video to incorporate with their own TV and BluRay business. The Pioneer branding was supposed to reappear on new "Kuro" LCDs made by Sharp, but that seems to have been scuttled. At the moment, Pioneer survives almost entirely as a car stereo brand, with a few stray DVD players and other leftover products being haphazardly marketed. Much of it is subcontracted now along the lines of Funai>Toshiba, so the brand exists primarily as a nameplate.

Someone seeking the specific qualities Pioneer brought to their former A/V products will not find that again: in that sense, the company is dead. Future offerings will be car stereos, cheap low-end generic home stereos, possibly some BluRay players by way of Sharp, and perhaps the LCD variation of "Kuro" televisions (if the economy recovers enough to make premium TVs a viable retail product again).

[Maldez]

Well, it was driving me just bit crazy how I got the notion that Pioneer was "out of business" so I went back to the original thread and read through orsetto's posts again, where I found the comments in question:

….the DVR-7000 was one hell of a gorgeous-looking recorder and people REALLY hate having to give them up. But they just aren't practical to use in 2012 unless you raided a Pioneer service center for parts when Pioneer went bankrupt in 2008....

…..Back in 2006, Pioneer left the USA market but introduced improved DVD/HDD recorders in Canada for 2007 (model 550) and 2008 (model 560) right before going bankrupt……

….The 460, 560 and 660 of 2008 were also Canada-but-not-USA models, and sadly the last hurrah of innovative Pioneer Video before the economic meltdown of late 2008 decimated Pioneer's expensive Kuro plasma tv business, taking the DVD recorders and stereo components down with it. Today nothing remains of Pioneer but the brand name, a hollow phantom like Polaroid or Nakamichi. Anyway, Pioneer went out with a bang:…

[bacardi/avt]

My remarks of Pioneer being "out of business" in various posts over the last few years were based on the fact that they actually did tank completely, in the sense we in North America once knew Pioneer to be. Every product they were long famous for making was chucked overboard almost instantly in late 2008, leaving the Pioneer name as a shell (much like "Polaroid" or "Nakamichi" are ghosts of what they were 10 years ago).

The old Pioneer is indeed "gone," despite a handful of items like DVD players still lingering around with their nameplate. Like several other audio companies that were household names in the '70s, Pioneer struggled to keep relevant amid the onslaught of the boombox, Walkman and iPod eras. They were heavily invested in LaserDisc, which died the minute DVD launched. They had a very good business for awhile as one of the earliest and best DVD burner and recorder brands, but that eventually evaporated as burners became disposable commodities and interest died for DVD/HDD recorders. Toward the end, too much of their capital was tied in to their high-end Kuro spin on Panasonic's large screen plasma TV systems. They got killed in late 2008 by the dual punch of global economic meltdown combined with the incessant misguided consumer attitude that "plasma is obsolete old hat, LCD is the only way to go in big screen TV."

Reports from CE industry trade press indicated Toyota had bought some of Pioneer's ashes to corner and control their supply of car stereos, while Sharp bought the dregs of Pioneer Video to incorporate with their own TV and BluRay business. The Pioneer branding was supposed to reappear on new "Kuro" LCDs made by Sharp, but that seems to have been scuttled. At the moment, Pioneer survives almost entirely as a car stereo brand, with a few stray DVD players and other leftover bits being haphazardly marketed. Much of it is subcontracted now along the lines of Funai>Toshiba, so the brand exists primarily as a nameplate.

Someone seeking the specific qualities Pioneer brought to their former A/V products will not find that again: in that sense, the company is dead. Future offerings will be car stereos, cheap low-end generic home stereos, possibly some BluRay players by way of Sharp, and perhaps the LCD variation of "Kuro" televisions (if the economy recovers enough to make premium TVs a viable retail product again).

What are your sources? can you post some links to documents about your statements?
I assume you are talking about Pioneer US and not Pioneer EU and Pioneer Corporate (japan)

[orsetto]

What are your sources? can you post some links to documents about your statements?
I assume you are talking about Pioneer US and not Pioneer EU and Pioneer Corporate (japan)

Most of what I've mentioned came from reports at the time in T.W.I.C.E. magazine/website, a USA electronics mfr/retailer trade journal. T.W.I.C.E. archives are not easily accessible to non-subscribers, but you should be able to find similar archived reports from Reuters, c/net, and general electronics sites (as I remember them echoing the same talking points a few days or weeks after industry journals like T.W.I.C.E.). BTW, I mis-quoted the auto company that allegedly holds a large stake in Pioneer now: it is Honda, not Toyota. The Japanese are very tight-lipped and discrete when such major brands suffer financial collapse: many details of the Pioneer dissolution remain unclear even now, four years later.

Pioneer went kaput worldwide in late 2008: this wasn't just a North American issue. In Sweden, you may have heard of an unrelated earlier USA-specific change when Pioneer (along with Panasonic, Toshiba, and Sony) pulled their DVD/HDD recorders out of the USA market just prior to our digital broadcast transition in late 2006. They did this because the cost of updating the tuners would have led to increased retail prices which the USA consumer had repeatedly proved unwilling to pay. These recorders remained in production with analog tuners for Canada until 2008.

[usually_quiet]

Contrary to what orsetto has just said, Pioneer USA is still in business although the number of products and product lines offered here is reduced. http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/

[Noahtuck]

Them going out with a bang.....
Ummmmm......
Yeah......

Like the post above me, I have continually seen new products consistently for home and mobile audio.

I have been buying Pioneer home equipment for 30+ years & just purchased a new home receiver less than 6 months ago.

Like I said in my first post,

Maybe they stopped making stand alone dvd recorders, but I doubt the company as a whole is going anywhere any time soon.......

[usually_quiet]

Yes, enough with the hyperbole. Going bankrupt and needing to be bailed out by some white knight(s) is not the same as "going out of business" in the way that Polaroid did. Saying Pioneer is out of business makes as much sense as saying General Motors and Chrysler Corporation are out of business. All three were bailed out, re-organized themselves, eliminated unprofitable products and continued.

[Noahtuck]

@ orsetto
No offense intended...
But you are either just repeating some diatribe some clueless idiot posted somewhere else or you are just talking crap because you really don't have a clue....

[budz]

Pioneer stopped making dvd recorders many years ago.....too bad their dvd burners are crappy since changing to mediatek chipset.....sigh......gonna bite da bullet and buy a cheapo Magnavox dvd recorder from wally worlds....my pioneer dvd recorder finally died 4 months ago....

[usually_quiet]

I need to make a correction. I misunderstood or mis-remembered what someone else wrote in another thread. Pioneer still lists a few DVD players at their USA website, and if someone buys the US versions of those models they should work properly with a N. American TV. However, there are a number of sellers offering all-region imports made by Pioneer and those need to be avoided when using an analog connection and a N. American TV.

[Edit]Pioneer DVD players may be discontinued in the US after all. I only found a few sellers for the models listed at the website. It is hard to tell if some of them are offering the US version or not. I think it would be easier to find the US model of Pioneer's BDP-140 Blu-ray player, if one must have a Pioneer player of some kind for DVDs.

[orsetto]

@ orsetto
No offense intended...
But you are either just repeating some diatribe some clueless idiot posted somewhere else or you are just talking crap because you really don't have a clue....

Call it what you wish: this is what was reported to retailers by the trade press based on info Pioneer, Honda, Sharp and other parties released to them. I have no reason to pull stories out of my ass: between stereo gear, PC burners and DVD recorders I'm up to my eyeballs invested in Pioneer. If I have offended anyone by repeating trade press "hyperbole," you have my apologies: yes, a "reorg" is not the same as going out of business.

But as regards the Pioneer product lines and specs most of us here were interested in, they're gone. This wasn't a "reorg" ala Chrysler: Pioneer got well and truly screwed. Do they still have a crapload of products on their various websites? Yup. Do they have a coherent worldwide distribution and marketing program like they used to? Nope: each country and region is scratching its head. Do the various global websites still prominently feature some products that haven't been available in years? Yes. Are they still making and selling things on the level of their Kuro TVs, higher end audio, proprietary burners or video recorders? No. The "White Knights" in this case are not helping Pioneer get back to business as usual: they have invested in pieces to use for their own ends. Pioneer has emerged as a very different company.

If the current lineup of receivers or car stereos fills a need for you, great: I love Pioneer, own tons of their products, and wish them well. Buying their current products (if they suit you) keeps the name alive and one can hope they might someday surprise us again, even if the items are really from Sharp or whoever. But the stuff they made their name on is gone: its just as much an exaggeration to say "they reorganized and everythings totally fine" as it is to say "they're out of business:" in terms of the product lines they were once the go-to brand for, they're effectively out of business. In terms of getting a DVD/HDD recorder fixed, cross your fingers and hope your local center still has parts. Most of the threads I reply to regard Pioneer DVD/HDD recorder or stereo owners just pulling their heads out of the sand to realize the gear is gone: when they balk at suggestions that repair may be unfeasible or that replacements are no longer made, then I mention the Kuro Krash of 2008. Somebody whose DVR-531 or A400 just died and who hasn't set foot in a Best Buy since 2004 doesn't care that Pioneer is still "in business" making lawnmowers or 5.1 receivers: the distinction for them is moot.

[Maldez]

...... I love Pioneer, own tons of their products, and wish them well. Buying their current products (if they suit you) keeps the name alive and one can hope they might someday surprise us again, even if the items are really from Sharp or whoever. But the stuff they made their name on is gone:.....

So, given what you just said, orsetto, are there better DVD players out there in the market today (for US consumers) than what is being sold as "Pioneer"? Amazon has a number of Pioneer DVD players to choose from and they're getting very good reviews. The Dv610, e.g. looks to be a great unit and I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on it.

[edDV]

Pioneer Corp is very much in business with several product lines and 26,785 employees.
Are you guys incapable of using Google?
http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/snapshot/snapshot.asp?ticker=6773:JP
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_Corporation

[usually_quiet]

...... I love Pioneer, own tons of their products, and wish them well. Buying their current products (if they suit you) keeps the name alive and one can hope they might someday surprise us again, even if the items are really from Sharp or whoever. But the stuff they made their name on is gone:.....

So, given what you just said, orsetto, are there better DVD players out there in the market today (for US consumers) than what is being sold as "Pioneer"? Amazon has a number of Pioneer DVD players to choose from and they're getting very good reviews. The Dv610, e.g. looks to be a great unit and I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on it.

Most of the Dv610's and other Pioneer DVD players being sold in the US are multi-system imports. After your experience with a multi-system DVD recorder why on earth would you even consider going that route again? Imported DVD players will give you a picture with too much black when used with a N. American TV and any connection other than HDMI. Since there are no new deluxe N. American model DVD players available, buy a decent Blu-ray player with good reviews instead. There are plenty of deluxe models to choose from.

If you will only buy Pioneer, Pioneer's newest Blu-Ray players are made by Pioneer, not Sharp http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/transports/high-definition-dvd-players-hd-dvd-blu-r...elite-bdp-53fd Pioneer is coming out with a new model soon, the BDP-150

[Maldez]

multi-system imports[/B]. After your experience with a multi-system DVD recorder why on earth would you even consider going that route again? Imported DVD players will give you a picture with too much black when used with a N. American TV and any connection other than HDMI. Since there are no new deluxe N. American model DVD players available, buy a decent Blu-ray player with good reviews instead. There are plenty of deluxe models to choose from.

If you will only buy Pioneer, Pioneer's newest Blu-Ray players are made by Pioneer, not Sharp http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/transports/high-definition-dvd-players-hd-dvd-blu-r...elite-bdp-53fd Pioneer is coming out with a new model soon, the BDP-150

Well, because I didn't realize that most of the Pioneer DVD players are multi-system imports. I took an older Pioneer player that I had stored away out of retirement and it's now playing all of the "Hollywood" DVDs that the Panasonic EH59 would not, so I was on a bit of a Pioneer high and wanted to secure things for the future in this ever-changing world of technology. I just want to know that I'll be able to play all of my DVDs long into the future without worry about the machines available in two years and beyond not being campatible with my DVDs.

But if you think a Blu-ray unit will serve that purpose, and possibly more, then I will certainly look into those.

BTW, it seems odd that a US based site like Amazon would sell imports that have a high likelihood of not working properly in the US without some big warning alerting buyers to that possibility.

[usually_quiet]

Well, because I didn't realize that most of the Pioneer DVD players are multi-system imports. I took an older Pioneer player that I had stored away out of retirement and it's now playing all of the "Hollywood" DVDs that the Panasonic EH59 would not, so I was on a bit of a Pioneer high and wanted to secure things for the future in this ever-changing world of technology. I just want to know that I'll be able to play all of my DVDs long into the future without worry about the machines available in two years and beyond not being campatible with my DVDs.

But if you think a Blu-ray unit will serve that purpose, and possibly more, then I will certainly look into those.

BTW, it seems odd that a US based site like Amazon would sell imports that have a high likelihood of not working properly in the US without some big warning alerting buyers to that possibility.

The people who buy multi-system players are usually looking for them and generally know what to expect. They can be foreign film buffs/immigrants looking for a player that can play DVDs obtained from outside N. America (PAL or NTSC), or people going overseas who want to take their DVD collection and player with them.

Blu-ray players play DVDs. I can't remember seeing one that didn't. They may have fewer deluxe features for DVD playback than older high-end DVD players had, but are not bad. Per the AACS license, they lack component video out as of this year, but still have composite and HDMI.

The Pioneer Blu-Ray players are supposed to provide better audio performance playing CDs than typical Blu-ray players offer. There are of course nice Panasonic and Sony Blu-Ray players. LG makes some higher-end products as well as inexpensive ones. It depends on what you are looking for. Just stay away from anything with "Multi-Region", "Region-Free" or "Multi-system" in the name or product description.

[lacywest]

Contrary to what orsetto has just said, Pioneer USA is still in business although the number of products and product lines offered here is reduced. http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/

Took a look at your link ... they're still making AV receivers ... all my receivers in my home are Pioneers and working just fine.

[lacywest]

Well, because I didn't realize that most of the Pioneer DVD players are multi-system imports. I took an older Pioneer player that I had stored away out of retirement and it's now playing all of the "Hollywood" DVDs that the Panasonic EH59 would not, so I was on a bit of a Pioneer high and wanted to secure things for the future in this ever-changing world of technology. I just want to know that I'll be able to play all of my DVDs long into the future without worry about the machines available in two years and beyond not being campatible with my DVDs.

But if you think a Blu-ray unit will serve that purpose, and possibly more, then I will certainly look into those.

BTW, it seems odd that a US based site like Amazon would sell imports that have a high likelihood of not working properly in the US without some big warning alerting buyers to that possibility.

The people who buy multi-system players are usually looking for them and generally know what to expect. They can be foreign film buffs/immigrants looking for a player that can play DVDs obtained from outside N. America (PAL or NTSC), or people going overseas who want to take their DVD collection and player with them.

Blu-ray players play DVDs. I can't remember seeing one that didn't. They may have fewer deluxe features for DVD playback than older high-end DVD players had, but are not bad. Per the AACS license, they lack component video out as of this year, but still have composite and HDMI.

The Pioneer Blu-Ray players are supposed to provide better audio performance playing CDs than typical Blu-ray players offer. There are of course nice Panasonic and Sony Blu-Ray players. LG makes some higher-end products as well as inexpensive ones. It depends on what you are looking for. Just stay away from anything with "Multi-Region", "Region-Free" or "Multi-system" in the name or product description.

they lack component video out ... yes ... that is pissing me off ... my Pioneer Elite Receiver in my bedroom will switch HDMI ... but I'd rather stick with Video Component connections ... hopefully Directv will keep Video Component connections ... in case I want to use my Hauppauge HD PVR box ... again. ... I say ... again ... because my Directv is turned off at the moment.

[KBeee]

You have to remember that anyone that wants a component out of a device is a drug dealer/paedophile/terrorist/pirate/money launderer/organised crime lord/pinko commie bastard - Do YOU want to be like that?

[lacywest]

Is there anything we are not ??

[lacywest]

Isn't that why we become members here ... to learn how but at the same time ... reword our words a certain way to seem legit

[jman98]

BTW, it seems odd that a US based site like Amazon would sell imports that have a high likelihood of not working properly in the US without some big warning alerting buyers to that possibility.

Those are actually being sold by resellers and not by Amazon themselves. They seem to exercise little control over resellers. It's a long story I will condense, but some years ago I bought an unlocked mobile phone from a reseller and the description about the phone was completely erroneous. Basically it only supported 1 of the 2 international GSM bands but the description said it supported both. The phone itself was capable of supporting both, but AT&T deliberately crippled it and the reseller was selling old, scrapped AT&T versions of the phone. The documentation that came with the phone explicitly stated that the phone did not support both international GSM bands, but Nokia's doc on their website showed that the phone normally supported both bands. I complained about this and he ignored my email. Amazon basically told me "Hey guy, we don't exercise control over resellers, so that's YOUR problem to resolve". I ended up filing a protest over the charge with my credit card company and provided documentation that the description was faulty and the phone did not actually support both international GSM bands. The reseller then claimed he was "out of town on vacation and just got back" and quickly agreed to a return and a refund. So since then I have been very wary of Amazon resellers for electronics. I do buy from them, but I try to be very sure that the product is really and truly what it says it is because my experience is that Amazon will leave you out to dry if you have problems.

[Maldez]

BTW, it seems odd that a US based site like Amazon would sell imports that have a high likelihood of not working properly in the US without some big warning alerting buyers to that possibility.

Those are actually being sold by resellers and not by Amazon themselves. They seem to exercise little control over resellers. It's a long story ....... So since then I have been very wary of Amazon resellers for electronics. I do buy from them, but I try to be very sure that the product is really and truly what it says it is because my experience is that Amazon will leave you out to dry if you have problems.

Thanks for the input, jman. Anything Amazon sells, Amazon should be held accountable for, whether it's through a reseller or not. I actually have a very strong confidence when I buy from Amazon, and have a very recent purchase as an example. I bought a very large (over 100 pounds) TV / home theater component stand. It arrived on a Monday with the corner of the wooden tabletop hopelessly crushed in, obviously damaged before packaging for shipment as the box was intact. I called Amazon Customer Service, something I had never heard of before, and was immediately in contact with a very well-spoken woman (no foreign, broken English cubicle dweller at all) who was extremely;y helpful. The end result is I had a new unit shipped to me and arrived at my door that Friday. That's the kind of customer service that builds consumer loyalty. If I'm buying on-line, Amazon is always my first choice.