HD Monitor or HD Tv ?

[DB83]

I am not that technically minded and since I can ill afford to make a mistake I thought it better to ask.

I think my analogue LCD monitor is dying. There are two white(or light blue) horizontal lines running across the top of the screen within the blue information bar (if that is the correct term). Yesterday, and for the last month or so, there was just one. Their position is not obstrusive but I do wonder if there are about to head south down the rest of the screen.

So, I need to get myself ready for that time and plan for a replacement.

My graphics card is an ATI Radeon HD4670 so I think it is time to go down the HD route.

My simple question is whether I can obtain a full HD tv and use this as my new monitor or whether I would be better served by getting a bespoke HD monitor.

Usage is for general PC work, video capture and editing and DVD/Blu-ray playback.

[yoda313]

You don't need an actual hdtv if you don't plan on watching tv. You would need a tv with a tuner to watch it independently without the computer being on if it had a tv tuner card.

DVD/Blu-ray playback

Your main consideration will be to ensure it has hdcp so you can do bluray. It will HAVE To have hdmi input for bluray.

Whether or not you do 720p or 1080p depends on how large you go. A relatively small screen should be ok with just 720p. If the price increase isn't too much you might as well go with 1080p as long as it is within your budget.

ATI Radeon HD4670

Probably a dumb question here if you ALREADY do bluray playback but does this card have hdcp on it? If it does than all you have to have is a hd monitor with hdcp on it to do bluray playback.

Unless you rip your blurays. But that would take up a LOT of space if you ripped without converting.

Ripping removes hdcp but takes away the convenience of just popping in a disc and going. You'll have menu support on a computer playback but not on a settop media player - well not that I know of - there might be one or two media players that can do bluray menu support but I don't know which ones they are.

[jagabo]

If you want clear text on the Desktop be sure the HDTV has a pixel-for-pixel mode and the ability to accept the TV's native resolution from the HDMI port (many 1080p HDTVs support this, most 720p HDTVs don't). Otherwise you'll get blurry, distorted text.

[DB83]

As I said, most techie mumble-jumble goes right over my head.

Here is a review of this card which contains tons of that:

http://www.guru3d.com/article/ati-radeon-hd-4670-review/3

I do currently watch blu-rays through this card/monitor combo. The more recent ones - the Spartacus sets - would not play until I installed DVDfab Passkey

I only watch SD tv and can do that using my current capture setup. I trust that would not be affected whichever route I take.

I have read a lot on here about 'HDCP compliancy'.

Things are getting more clearer now. Thank you both.

If I choose a full-HD tv (which according to the review will also allow me to recieve blu-ray sound) I must ensure about the pixel bit else I will get even more headaches than I get right now trying to use it for PC work.

Or I simply chose a full-HD monitor. Get best of both worlds. No display issues with PC work. I assume I lose the blu-ray playback sound and monitor speakers tend to be poo-poo anyway. But I could still channel the sound through the HD sound card ( I only use 2 speakers)

I just have to be sure that both of these, subject to the other conditions, are HDCP compliant ?

As a final question, do you guys have any recommendations hardware wise. I will not state my budget so as not to restrict you in this way. Just want something good and reliable. My first(CRT) monitor gave me almost 15 years of service and this LCD must be well over 10.

[jagabo]

Or I simply chose a full-HD monitor. Get best of both worlds. No display issues with PC work. I assume I lose the blu-ray playback

No, most computer monitors support HDCP via HDMI and DVI. So you can still play Blu-ray discs with sanctioned players.

[DB83]

Or I simply chose a full-HD monitor. Get best of both worlds. No display issues with PC work. I assume I lose the blu-ray playback

No, most computer monitors support HDCP via HDMI and DVI. So you can still play Blu-ray discs with sanctioned players.

I was refering to the sound ?? The review stated that sound came via adapter - I have that which came with the card. At present I use the analogue adapter to connect it to the monitor.

The 'player' is a PC-based LG HD DVD BLU combi

[usually_quiet]

Or I simply chose a full-HD monitor. Get best of both worlds. No display issues with PC work. I assume I lose the blu-ray playback

No, most computer monitors support HDCP via HDMI and DVI. So you can still play Blu-ray discs with sanctioned players.

I was refering to the sound ?? The review stated that sound came via adapter - I have that which came with the card. At present I use the analogue adapter to connect it to the monitor.

The 'player' is a PC-based LG HD DVD BLU combi

I thought you said you planned to use the PC's speakers for audio, rather than monitor speakers. As you indicated, PC speakers would sound better since LCD monitors, especially LED models, have poor speakers, or no speakers at all.

DVI and HDMI are both HDCP compliant and provide exactly the same picture quality. A DVI connection will work just as well as HDMI for Blu-Ray playback, if you don't plan to use audio from the monitor's speakers.

[jagabo]

If you're not going to use the monitor's sound (or the monitor doesn't have sound) just run audio from your sound card to some speakers.

[DB83]

Ok. Maybe I did confuse the issue by bringing sound in to the mix.

I was just intrigued by the ability of the adapter from this video card that would carry sound over HDMI to the tv.

Would I be right in thinking that if I went down the tv route, the sound from a tv's built-in speakers is not going to be much if even better than that in a monitor(with built-in speakers)

A monitor does now appear to be the better option. So now to await some recommendations.

[jagabo]

Would I be right in thinking that if I went down the tv route, the sound from a tv's built-in speakers is not going to be much if even better than that in a monitor(with built-in speakers)

A TV and a monitor of the same size are likely to have about the same quality sound.

[dun4cheap]

There are a lot of variables, and depending on the type tv. The hdmi audio option is alway a good option. Many of the new tvs compatable surround sound systems you can add on. Many times the tv has optical out, so you would retain the digital audio. Computer speakers are nice, but A decent surround setup is better. In any event you can use both. Most new video cards that have HDMI out also have an HDMI Audio out. Originally ATI had a special DVI to HDMI adapter that supported this, but most cards now have HDMI ports on them.

Where this really all ties in well is with Windows Media Center, do not confuse this with Windows Media Player. Get your self a $10 Media Center remote, and you are golden. Myself, I have mine hooked up to a sony amp, and a full blown surround sound setup with a 55" LCD. My desktop I have 2 Duel 24" LCDs as well. So all scenarios work awesome.

Well good luck on your setup. Skys the limit.

[usually_quiet]

I can see how a TV offers some benefits for dedicated Media Center PC with the proverbial 10-foot interface (or 3 metre interface since the OP is in the UK). For one thing, TVs can be larger for better visibility in a big room. Plus, a TV can be shut off with a remote control, but I haven't yet seen a regular monitor with that feature, or a timer that can shut the monitor off automatically at a certain time. (I have only seen a timer that could shut the monitor off after a specified number of hours of use.) If the Media Center was to be connected to a receiver and surround sound system, then HDMI would offer some advantages over DVI.

Uness someone needs a really big screen, I can't think of a reason to prefer a TV over a monitor for general-purpose PC that will be used for web-surfing and other mundane tasks most of the time, but may be sometimes be used to watch recorded TV shows and Blu-ray discs. If there is no desire to use a home theater/home cinema sound system, HDMI offers no advantages over DVI plus analog stereo output from the sound card's speaker port.

[yoda313]

Many times the tv has optical out, so you would retain the digital audio.

I've read a lot of posts here on vhelp that this is not true for doing passthrough. It would be downgraded to 2.0. Now if you are using an ota and the broadcast has 5.1 than that SHOULD be fully outputted through the optical as that is originated by the set itself.

Edit - you'd use a direct link from the player to the amp to keep the 5.1 (in my case fiber optic as I don't have a hdmi receiver).

[TBoneit]

I can see how a TV offers some benefits for dedicated Media Center PC with the proverbial 10-foot interface (or 3 metre interface since the OP is in the UK). For one thing, TVs can be larger for better visibility in a big room. Plus, a TV can be shut off with a remote control, but I haven't yet seen a regular monitor with that feature, or a timer that can shut the monitor off automatically at a certain time. (I have only seen a timer that could shut the monitor off after a specified number of hours of use.) If the Media Center was to be connected to a receiver and surround sound system, then HDMI would offer some advantages over DVI.

Uness someone needs a really big screen, I can't think of a reason to prefer a TV over a monitor for general-purpose PC that will be used for web-surfing and other mundane tasks most of the time, but may be sometimes be used to watch recorded TV shows and Blu-ray discs. If there is no desire to use a home theater/home cinema sound system, HDMI offers no advantages over DVI plus analog stereo output from the sound card's speaker port.

FWIW MY computer is hooked up to the HDTV, As is my Satellite DVR, My media player, MY DVD recorder. In that room one display fits all and kept the space requirement down too. Before that I had a monitor 90% form the TV so I had to swivel to see what the Computer was doing and swivel back to watch TV. Now I just pause the DVR, DVD Recorder, or Media player and using the remote switch to computer and then back to TV. I can kick back in the swivel/rocker/recliner and use the wireless Keyboard w/Touchpad for the computer. For me having the big screen is nice. YMMV

[DB83]

Interesting comment above re the tv in the same room. I have a similar setup. In fact this tv (Sony full HD) has a HDMI socket which it states is 'just for a PC'. So I assume this is what jagabo was refering to regarding pixels.

I do not intend to connect my PC to this even though it is near enough for cable length. BTW even in this part of Europe we still do our measurements in 'old money' so that is 10 feet.

Would still appreciate some recs for monitors. I realise that such comments are specific to the user but if you are happy with it, it suits your purpose and you have had no problems with it then I would like to know.

[usually_quiet]

Interesting comment above re the tv in the same room. I have a similar setup. In fact this tv (Sony full HD) has a HDMI socket which it states is 'just for a PC'. So I assume this is what jagabo was refering to regarding pixels.

I do not intend to connect my PC to this even though it is near enough for cable length. BTW even in this part of Europe we still do our measurements in 'old money' so that is 10 feet.

Would still appreciate some recs for monitors. I realise that such comments are specific to the user but if you are happy with it, it suits your purpose and you have had no problems with it then I would like to know.

It is difficult to recommend a specific monitor. Availability varies by region, and new models come out every year, so by the time a model has any track record whatsoever, it is usually out of production.

I have owned a Samsung 21.5-inch 1920x1080 monitor for a couple of years, and I am happy with it, but I almost bought an LG monitor instead. ViewSonic and Dell also receive praise from some members here, especially professionals who need higher quality monitors for their work.

[DB83]

u_q. I know exactly what you are trying to say. I built my current PC for future-proofing yet it was out of date before I had screwed the case together.

But the names you put forward are enlightening. I have also read some good reviews of Samsung and ViewSonic.

Cheers !!

[edDV]

...
Usage is for general PC work, video capture and editing and DVD/Blu-ray playback.

Not mentioned so far is the UK 50Hz issue. A 60Hz computer monitor will never display 50Hz broadcast/DVD/Blu-Ray source properly. An HDTV will if the display card is set to output 1080p50. Optimally one would use a dual monitor configuration with a 60Hz computer monitor serving prime PC duty plus a second 50 Hz feed to an HDTV for watching broadcast/DVD/Blu-Ray.

An HDTV with pixel by pixel mapping can serve double duty. One display card output would be connected to the "PC" input of the TV (DVI or HDMI) and set to 1920x1080p60. The other HDMI output would be set to 1920x1080p50 for TV/DVD/Blu-ray viewing.

[DB83]

edDV,

I assume that these issues are only relevant to a HD monitor. I have many US dvds and have no issues playing these on this LCD. Do not have any US blu-rays as I am concerned about zones (although I expect that DVDfab Passkey would sort that out)

But, surely, if I stick to UK-sourced blu-ray and a UK-sourced monitor I would have no problems ? Must admit that this is one complication I can do without. I do not have that many blu-rays but one raison-etre for going down the HD route is to be able to watch these in their prime.

I think, although not sure, there are two connectors - the ATI catalyst software shows for dual monitors - and I suppose, at a push, I could run a cable from one output to a free HDMI socket on the tv. But I could do that now and deliberatley chose not to do it.

I occassionally play a dvd through a stand-alone to the Sony 32" full-HD tv. I do recall that when I played a region0 NTSC there was a slight reaction on the tv but it did play just fine.

So maybe I really should consider a HDtv rather than a monitor (oh shucks!). Time to see if 'pixel-mapping' is stated in the specs.

[usually_quiet]

edDV,

I assume that these issues are only relevant to a HD monitor. I have many US dvds and have no issues playing these on this LCD. Do not have any US blu-rays as I am concerned about zones (although I expect that DVDfab Passkey would sort that out)

But, surely, if I stick to UK-sourced blu-ray and a UK-sourced monitor I would have no problems ? Must admit that this is one complication I can do without. I do not have that many blu-rays but one raison-etre for going down the HD route is to be able to watch these in their prime.

I think, although not sure, there are two connectors - the ATI catalyst software shows for dual monitors - and I suppose, at a push, I could run a cable from one output to a free HDMI socket on the tv. But I could do that now and deliberatley chose not to do it.

I occassionally play a dvd through a stand-alone to the Sony 32" full-HD tv. I do recall that when I played a region0 NTSC there was a slight reaction on the tv but it did play just fine.

So maybe I really should consider a HDtv rather than a monitor (oh shucks!). Time to see if 'pixel-mapping' is stated in the specs.

Most LCD computer monitors are designed for optimum performance at 60Hz. For CRTs the optimum could be 60Hz or 75Hz. Check your video card's settings for your old analog LCD monitor. Chances are it is 60Hz. Your player software may do something to compensate for the difference in refresh rate when you are watching TV or Blu-Rays now. Being in NTSC land with no PAL DVDs or Blu-Ray movies in my collection, I can't comment on whether player software does a good job at this. Plus, I am apparently less sensitive to judder than some people here.

[Verify]

As usual, it depends

My experience has been that a small (22" 1920x1080 VIZIO M220NV) LCD TV, provides a tuner, speakers, extra inputs, more display options, and (using the correct viewing mode) about the same picture as most other people will see when playing back your DVDs on their TVs. And for about the same price as a similar monitor (and the TV will cost much less than a monitor when you go significantly larger.

Currently have a PC (with ancient TV Wonder card), a VCR, a DVD/HDD recorder, and a stereo receiver (with dual tape deck and turntable and a pair of AR3 speakers) connected to it. The PC is hooked-up to the "RGB PC" input
instead of one of th HDMI inputs since it gives a clearer signal that way with this particular TV.

This setup works well for me, but it is in a rather small room and I do set in front of a desk that everything is on, so it's very convenient to get at all the controls and the viewing distance (just under two feet to the monitor) gives me the best resolution visually possible without seeing individual pixels.

[DB83]

[QUOTE=usually_quiet;2164815Most LCD computer monitors are designed for optimum performance at 60Hz. For CRTs the optimum could be 60Hz or 75Hz. Check your video card's settings for your old analog LCD monitor. Chances are it is 60Hz. Your player software may do something to compensate for the difference in refresh rate when you are watching TV or Blu-Rays now. Being in NTSC land with no PAL DVDs or Blu-Ray movies in my collection, I can't comment on whether player software does a good job at this. Plus, I am apparently less sensitive to judder than some people here.[/QUOTE]

Yes, the video card is set at 60Hz. And there's a tale behind that as well. I am sure that sometime before I built this PC the video card was set at 72Hz. However, with this build I could not get a stable picture or maybe it was no pic (this was a couple of years ago so memory is a wee bit fuzzy) so I had to reduce it to 60Hz although the monitor claims to go up to 75Hz.

I have had a quick look for prospective equipment. Now I think the largest this desk and my viewing distance will allow is 22". I can not find a full HD tv at 22"

There is a Samsung which is described as a monitor/tv. Basically that is a monitor with a built in digital tv decoder (which I do not actually need so end up paying more than I really should.

Will keep looking.

[jagabo]

I can not find a full HD tv at 22"

Our 22" Vizio M221NV has a native resolution of 1920x1080. I've never hooked it up to a computer but it has a pixel-for-pixel mode.

[edDV]

Samsung, LG, Vizio and others make 1080p 22-24" HDTVs in ATSC/QAM models. The Samsung UK site appears to be blocked here.

I have an older Samsung HD3333 and two Vizios connected to computers here. The Vizios will take 50 Hz.

[jagabo]

Amazon.co.uk shows many 21" to 23" HDTVs with 1080p.

[usually_quiet]

Most LCD computer monitors are designed for optimum performance at 60Hz. For CRTs the optimum could be 60Hz or 75Hz. Check your video card's settings for your old analog LCD monitor. Chances are it is 60Hz. Your player software may do something to compensate for the difference in refresh rate when you are watching TV or Blu-Rays now. Being in NTSC land with no PAL DVDs or Blu-Ray movies in my collection, I can't comment on whether player software does a good job at this. Plus, I am apparently less sensitive to judder than some people here.

Yes, the video card is set at 60Hz. And there's a tale behind that as well. I am sure that sometime before I built this PC the video card was set at 72Hz. However, with this build I could not get a stable picture or maybe it was no pic (this was a couple of years ago so memory is a wee bit fuzzy) so I had to reduce it to 60Hz although the monitor claims to go up to 75Hz.

I have had a quick look for prospective equipment. Now I think the largest this desk and my viewing distance will allow is 22". I can not find a full HD tv at 22"

There is a Samsung which is described as a monitor/tv. Basically that is a monitor with a built in digital tv decoder (which I do not actually need so end up paying more than I really should.

Will keep looking.

My point was that you are currently using a 60Hz monitor, and it apparently worked well enough for what you are doing until it started to fail. If you were happy with a 60Hz monitor for video editing and watching movies, it is still an option.

People don't seem have problems using a monitor to watch PAL TV or PAL DVDs and Blu-Ray discs as long as they are using their computer and a software player. In fact, people in the US are often advised that they can use their computer to watch PAL DVDs when they don't own a DVD player that can convert from PAL to NTSC. People mostly encounter difficulty using an LCD monitor to watch video when they try to connect one to either a non-60Hz or interlaced video source, such as a camera, set-top player, or set-top box using HDMI.

[DB83]

Amazon.co.uk shows many 21" to 23" HDTVs with 1080p.

I have been on that site. It was the source of my comment.

On double-checking this morning I did find one - a Samsumg 22".

I believe the rest of them are actually monitors. But please prove me wrong.

I suppose when the push comes to a shove I will visit a few stores and hope to get the benefit of practical demonstration. The problem then, as I have previously found, even with my low knowldedge, I know more than the geeks who are trained just to sell a box.

[DB83]

u_q,

So what you are effectively saying is that a HD monitor is not going to be practically different to my 60Hz analogue LCD with my current setup ? To recap, I can play both PAL and NTSC dvds and UK sourced blu-rays. The 50Hz comments just blew my head away.

[edDV]

u_q,

So what you are effectively saying is that a HD monitor is not going to be practically different to my 60Hz analogue LCD with my current setup ? To recap, I can play both PAL and NTSC dvds and UK sourced blu-rays. The 50Hz comments just blew my head away.

You said you want an ultimate Blu-ray experience and for 25fps "PAL" discs, that requires a 50p monitor/HDTV connection. Same goes for monitoring DVB broadcasts from a computer tuner. 60Hz computer monitors require a 25/50fps to 60fps conversion as the video is read into and out of the display card frame buffer. This conversion requires insertion of repeat frames to achieve 60p. Also this conversion is often unsynced. Many people don't notice or don't care but to properly view 25fps content, you need a 50p monitor or HDTV connection from the computer.

The easy way to avoid all of this is to purchase a $90 Blu-Ray player and watch your discs or play your files from that over a 50p HDMI connection to your HDTV. Using networked DLNA, you can view and play your computer files from the player. An alternate to a Blu-Ray player is a media player such as the WDTV Live which can also access computer files over the network or play files from an attached hard or flash drive.

To sum up, for general computer monitoring, you want the monitor/TV connected 60p. For ideal 25/50fps video monitoring, you want a 50p connection. Only an HDTV can do both.

A note on 100Hz HDTVs.

High end "PAL" Blue-ray players are capable of connection at 25p (film mode), 24p (4% speedup done in the TV), 50i (legacy) or 50p (with frame repeats from 25p source or bob deinterlace from 50i source). A 100Hz HDTV will process each of these for display at 100p as follows

25p - 4x frame repeats or intermediate frame interpolation to 100p.
24p - same as above but first a 4% speedup to 25p (with sound processing) is done.
50i (aka 25i) - smart bob deinterlace converts to 50p. Then 2x frame repeats or frame interpolation to 100p is applied.
50p - 2x frame repeats or frame interpolation to 100p is applied.

Note that "100 Hz" HDTV sets usually will not accept 100p as an input.

[DB83]

Ok. I think I understand it now. Thank you for taking the time to explain in detail. And your patience. I do get 'blonde' moments at times

One, hopefully, final question. Is it safe to assume that HD monitors UK-sourced support 50p (I only, as you point out, see that applying to 1080p HD tvs) and what would be the result of using such a mode for general PC work ?

This is the one that catches my eye were I to buy right now.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-S22B300HS-21-5-inch-Widescreen/dp/B0074H1SD0/ref=dp_ob_title_ce

And for a tv:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005FVJ5GO/ref=s9_simh_gw_p23_d0_g23_i1?pf_rd_m=A3P...pf_rd_i=468294