I have just upgraded my DishNetwork subscription to the Hopper. Very nice.
The previous DVR was the 722, and I was capturing and making SD DVDs with Svideo into a Pinnacle Moviebox USB, into WinXP, and then using Nero Vision on Win7. This has been working quite well.
Now with such a nice DVR, I'd like to upgrade my tool chain to HDMI capture and blu-ray media to play on my PS3.
The Blackmagic Shuttle looks nice and is affordable, but all reviews talk about difficulty in setting it up and at least one mentions that it will not record PS3 game play from HDMI.
Hauppauge HD PVR does not have HDMI input, so it is off my list. Component video is just too many wires.
Also I see this StarTech card:
- Does anyone have experience with Blackmagic?
- Does it work with HDMI?
- Is there a better HDMI 1080i/p capture device to USB, USB3 or Firewire?
- Can Dishnetwork HDMI output be recorded? From Hopper?
- "Premium" movie channels, like SHO, TMC, etc are not on the menu.
- "Timeshifting" EPIX, Syfy, Research channel, UCTV, PBSHD, etc. for personal use only is the goal.
- My Win7 production system has USB3, or can easily have using an expansion card.
Anybody have experience with this?
Looks like BD has finally come down enough in price so that a burner for ~$100 and media at $1-$2 each are available.
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Thread: HDMI Capture?
Last edited by windyweather; 4th May 2012 at 15:28. Reason: Add StarTech card
Hauppauge's Colossus card does have HDMI input. However, they are very explicit in pointing out that most cable and satellite boxes encrypt HDMI output and they do NOT record encrypted HDMI. I'm not aware of any device that can record encrypted HDMI. I have no idea whether PS3 video output from games is encrypted or not, but given that the PS3 is made by consumer unfriendly Sony, my guess is that it is encrypted.
Component video is really excellent quality. If it's "too many wires" for you then you are SOL my friend.
If you want detail, read this
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. They are but improved means to an unimproved end. -- Henry David Thoreau
There you go again, sanlyn, spouting stuff that is patently false.
Just as "the shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line", it is a cardinal axiom that the straightest, least-changing path between devices retains the highest quality.
So, with most signals now originating digitally, the least-changing path is a single conversion to analog AT THE DESTINATION (the "sink"), or ON THE TV SCREEN and AT THE AUDIO AMP/SPEAKERS.
Using component analog clearly detours that path. And with devices with HDCP, it is mandated that an analog output be of lower resolution!
Plus, component video's days of benefitting displays are numbered when more and more visual devices use mapped/digital pixels (LCD/LED) as opposed to scanned/swept pixels (CRT/Plasma).
HDMI sucks at my house, and pros wouldn't be caught using 30-gauge twisted-pair wire for a/v. Strictly for the average consumer. But suit yourself, whatever makes you feel better.Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. They are but improved means to an unimproved end. -- Henry David Thoreau
Ok. so I get it. There's a war out there on the subject of YPbPr vs HDMI.
So the remaining question is has anybody used the BlackMagic Intensity Shuttle?
Since this has both component and HDMI inputs, we can turn the flame off on the YPbPr vs HDMI wars.
The reviews I've seen on this device talk about it being very hard to set up.
Any experience out there? Does it work?
Can you take the recorded video and make a BD disk?
What tool chain did you use? I'd prefer an affordable Video editor and not a $700 or more Adobe Premier solution. I'm currently using Nero Vision for SD DVD, and it works very well for my needs.
News: HDMi outputs YPbPr in digital form.
The reiews I see for the product you want look mighty troublesome. Whether it ignores encrypted HDMI is another question: I don't know if it does or not. Most who have the Hauppauge PVR are pleased with it.Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. They are but improved means to an unimproved end. -- Henry David Thoreau
Ahem, most PROs use: HDSDI, SDI, HDMI/DVI/DP, Firewire, RGBA, Component,VGA, S-Video & Composite. In that order, wherever available.
HDMI outputs YCbCr or RGB depending upon the device(s) connected. YCbCr is digital, YPbPr is analog. And the whole point mentioned above, and again, is to NOT make those detours into analog land unless necessary. Defeating encryption might be one of those excuses, but it can and does often come with a resolution/quality penalty.
Never had any trouble here with Intensity Pro. But I don't give it encrypted streams, either. I'm 90% sure it wouldn't accept them. Setup is not that hard as long as you follow their "acceptable configurations" as regards the hardware & OS. Shuttle shouldn't be very different.
I recall from other threads that the Intensity Shuttle doesn't perform well with some USB 3.0 controllers. That tends to be where people encounter the most problems with the device, but there could be others too. I can't tell you which USB 3.0 controllers are good or bad. You can use Google to find out as readily as I can.
Blackmagic's Intensity product line supplies video in uncompressed form, and software is used to compress it. For optimum quality, many users choose codecs that apply light compression, resulting in enormous files that are compressed to an end format later. Blackmagic's products are geared towards professional and prosumer use. Cornucopia may know if there is less expensive software that might work well with it, instead of the programs that Blackmagic mentions at the website.
If you must use HDMI, then there is a work-around for HDCP available for the AVerMedia HD DVR PCI-e device, but it only allows capturing stereo audio. The AVerMedia HD DVR also supplies video in uncompressed form, and software is used to compress it too. Here again, most people using the card choose codecs that apply light compression, resulting in enormous files that have to be compressed to an end format later. Applying heavy compression during capture creates a less satisfactory result.
Capturing HD video using light compression and re-encoding later, seems like a lot of trouble to go to just for the purpose of time shifting. If you want something convenient for time shifting that can record 5.1 audio, the Hauppage HD-PVR, or Hauppage Colossus, which use hardware compression, can do a good job.
cornucopia, If you're gonna get tied up in knots every time someone disagrees with you, you'll look like a pretzel for a looooooooooooooog time. The two video shops I visited and the film archive labs in Astoria had no HDMI or DVI that I could see. They're still using CRT's to master color and levels. They use LCD's (sometimes) for email and for public display.
Believe me, I fully understand how much you and so many others truly enjoy your blurry Jello-color LCD's. Great for line-drawn toons, where subtlety, depth of tone, and low-level detail aren't at issue, but a real travesty for Toy Story, Gone With The Wind, Citizen Kane, or even March Of The Penguins. We're all analog creatures, but apparently many today have their senses numbed and muddled by the denuded, rounded-off, destructive digital remnants they've grown up with. Or maybe they were too strongly affected by that purple-tinged, smeary, snowy Emerson or Zenith of their childhoods. My LCD is strictly for utilitarian purposes (low-power "visual Musak", Weather Channel, that sort of thing. Keeps the power bill down). I Use 3 of its HDMI inputs. When I want to seriously get involved in a movie or something like the darkly-photographed Mentalist, I use the plasma or the CRT. And I still use my $3000 turntable to play LP's. If you've ever made a film or spent time in the likes of Carnegie Hall or worked with live Broadway sound, you'd be able to see and hear how HDMI, DVI, BluRay and CD's kill so much of the life in video and audio. So I disagree 100%. I can see and hear the difference. If you can't, that's your business. But don't beat up on others who don't share your preference for media that has been gutted and distorted.
It's up to the O.P what he wants to use. We are throwing up suggestions and alternatives. He should keep in mind that the number one priority for the development of HDMI was to stop consumers from copying anything, and to reduce production costs and increase annual bonuses. Quality and convenience were near the bottom of the list, if they were there at all.
Uh-oh, sorry, in my rant I forgot:
What penalty? I've been using the Hauppauge PVR for about a month now. Describe the penalties to all of us, so the O.P. can be forwarned and so that I can learn to see them as well as you do.
Shucks, now you have me riled and I'm gettin' too snarky. OK, here's the deal: I watched a TV movie via HDMI. Kept switiching back and forth. HDMI. Component. HDMI. Component. Tried switching thru the TV, tried the switching thru my receiver. I wasted a whole day doing this. Same movie, repeated 3 times, Fox Classics channel. I'm sorry, cornucopia, but component is still a better image and better audio thru the 75-ohm cable. Deeper contrast, higher level fo acutance and color accuracy, night scenes and mist don't fall apart the way they did thru HDMI. Would like to agree with you that all of analog is the work of the devil, but I can't.
Last edited by sanlyn; 4th May 2012 at 23:35.
For convenience, I would recommend an HDCP stripper paired with the Hauppauge Colossus. Advantages: hardware compression, 5.1 audio, you can choose whether to use HDMI or component+optical. Never used this card myself however.
The AVerTV HD DVR card that I do own would be cheaper, and no need for the stripper, but you'd have to rely on your CPU to do the compression.
I don't think any of the options will present a huge gulf in quality, given how much detail is already removed by Dish's overcompression.
I use a 4x2 Matrix splitter, an HDFury2, an Hauppauge HD PVR, and my (puny i3) laptop.
1. Inputs (STB, Blu Ray) into the matrix splitter
2. First matrix splitter output to TV
3. Second matrix splitter to HDFury
4. HDFury to HD PVR
5. HD PVR to laptop
You lose a bit quality-wise with the analog conversion, and the HD PVR is only capable of 720p or 1080i, but the PQ is still pretty darn good. I *think* the colossus can record 1080p over component, so might yield a slight improvement if you were so inclined.
If the AverMedia HD unit can allow me to capture to lossless compression of some kind, that would be an improvement. The PC can physically accommodate 3 hard drives (the motherboard will take six drives, 3 sata-6 and 3 sata-3 drives, but no room in the case for all six. And I can't see myself trying to maintain 6 big HDD's!). For now, the originals get transferred to external drives and then reworked from the Hauppauge's compressed product; that's a big headache, and some obvious quality loss that requires really careful treatment. Thanks for mentioning. I wasn't aware of the AverMedia unit. . . .
Last edited by sanlyn; 5th May 2012 at 18:54. Reason: correct sata specs
I have 2 cards AVER HD (C027).
Yes, its record full uncompressed video from HDMI inputs. Down? Yes, sound is mencioned above, Stereo only. But you can setup PS3 to Output Optical and record using your sound card.
For my captures its very nice. Virtualdub or AmarecTV, uncompressed or UT video ULY2 mode, 1080i max.
Ah very cheaper (~90.00$).
One tip: the HDCP pack works with ANY Aver devices HDMI input (All Dark Cristal series and newlys).
Thanks, Claudio, I'll look into it. No PS3 around, but stereo is OK with me. I usually clean it up anyway (why is audio on Turner Classic Movies so awful???). Most of the HD clips are old classics anyway, and those were all mono. True, TCM broadcasts a lot of SD but they're encrypted thru the HD box. Stuff like Mentalist or 30Rock in stereo is fine, I won't keep those forever anyway.
Last edited by usually_quiet; 5th May 2012 at 11:06. Reason: spelling
Reviews indicate that the Avermedia AVerTV HD DVR c027 works quite well.
Corel video studio pro x5 Ultimate is quite nice. I'll give it a try with the free trial.
Looks like I need an HDFury4 to clean up the signals and as a splitter.
BluRay drive from LG and media from Verbatim round out the package.
Thanks all for weighing in.
I have been using the Hauppage Collsus with the hopper connected via HDMI with no problems.
I have recorded hours of shows in the ts format in Arcsoft Showbiz (supplied) and then cutting comercials with VideoReDo and saving in h264 mp4 format and it works great.
^ You're saying the Hopper doesn't encrypt its HDMI output for regular viewing?
In theory its necessary, but in theory. I record 720p with UT Video and RAID and normal HD, no problem.
720p: the image in the 720p60 format has about 0,922 megapixels per frame (1280×720), with 24-bit color per pixel (RGB) and 60 full images per second it needs a bandwidth of about 1.30 Gbps.
1080i: the image in the 1080i60 format has about 2.07 megapixels per frame (1920x1080), with 24-bit color per pixel (RGB) and 60 half-images per second it needs a bandwidth of about 1.46 Gbps.
1080p: the image in the 1080p60 format has about 2.07 megapixels per frame (1920x1080), with 24-bit color per pixel (RGB) and 60 full images per second it needs a bandwidth of about 2.97 Gbps.
Standard Definition Frame Size MB/second MB/minute GB/hour 720x486/29.97fps (NTSC) 21.5 1288 75.5 720x576/25fps (PAL) 21.2 1274.4 75 High Definition 1280x720p/59.94fps 106.8 6409.7 375.6 1920x1080/50i 100.3 6020.5 352.8 1920x1080/59.94i 120 7199.9 421.9
Last edited by Cauptain; 5th May 2012 at 17:19.
HuffYUV. Maybe things have changed with SATA 6 Gb/s and faster drives, so it is possible to record capture files at 100 GB/hr no problem without using RAID.
Here are the uncompressed data rates for a BlackMagic Intensity.
Keep in mind that 1MB/s is equivalent to 8 Mb/s (Bytes vs Bits).
And yes, 1 hour of uncompressed 1080i takes up 421.9 GB !
I capture most HD off the Firewire port on my cable box. This way I get their best quality as MPeg2 TS in the 8-16 Mb/s range (~1-2 MB/s). Second I capture OTA or QAM off a tuner card which is also MPeg2 @ 10-16 Mb/s.
If I were to cap from analog component, I'd compress (MJPEG, Cineform, etc.) to at least fit on a single drive sustained rate. I'm glad I don't need to do that very often.
Last edited by edDV; 5th May 2012 at 18:42.
Software plugin? I'll research that. Thanks.
Scroll down to the HDCP section. Looks like their policies include PPV and Streaming stuff at least are encrypted.
Not sure. On the hopper, checked several channels: SyFy and ABC Evening News.
And if you look in Menu >> Settings >> Network setup >> Tests >> HDMI >> HDCP
it shows you the Encrypted state.
It shows unencrypted for SyFy live and ABC Evening News playback from DVR event.
Last edited by windyweather; 5th May 2012 at 18:39. Reason: clarify
It is possible Dish could change their policy at some point. Most other paid TV services do apply HDCP to discourage recording using 3rd party devices. That arrangement tends to make both the service provider and the content providers happy. Neither wants subscribers to have portable recordings which might be given to someone who does not have a subscription.
Last edited by usually_quiet; 5th May 2012 at 19:20. Reason: spelling
I accualy have it hooked to a receiver in another roon (JOEY) if I hook it straight in it works but if i hook it through a splitter it don't.
If the JOEY is hookef to anything that supports HDCP it encrypts but hooked to the Colossua alone it Doesn’t. It took me a while to figure that out.
Everything on Comcast HDMI is HDCP encrypted but in my community most channels are in the clear over IEEE-1394 (not Premium or PPV).
If Dish isn't using HDCP, I'll consider changing. If Comcast blocks IEEE-1394, I'll switch anyway.
Note that I added info on "uncompressed" above.