Question on VHS Capture vs DV Transfer to PC

[techiejustin]

(I still can't figure out how to save a video as huffYUV in iMovie)

You can't.

Oh well.

[Cornucopia]

HuffYUV only has a VfW/Directshow implementation. If you need a good cross-platform, lossless (or at least, "visually lossless" but lossly wavelet) codec, you could try Cineform. Or AVID's DNxHD (also "visually lossless" lossy wavelet). Possibly BitJazz's SheerVideo (but this only works within QT on PC, and isn't commonly used).

Lagarith is opensource, so it could be possible to be ported to QT & Macs (& Linux) - ANY TAKERS?

Scott

[techiejustin]

HuffYUV only has a VfW/Directshow implementation. If you need a good cross-platform, lossless (or at least, "visually lossless" but lossly wavelet) codec, you could try Cineform. Or AVID's DNxHD (also "visually lossless" lossy wavelet). Possibly BitJazz's SheerVideo (but this only works within QT on PC, and isn't commonly used).

Lagarith is opensource, so it could be possible to be ported to QT & Macs (& Linux) - ANY TAKERS?

Scott

With storage so cheap these days, would it be worth it to capture directly to either of those lossless codecs? My concern is the future. What if in 20 years both of those codecs are legacy and no longer supported? Plain 'ol DV IMO has a lower chance of becoming legacy. Especially on the Apple side.

as for Lagarith porting...
My coding days are over. I'm an Accountant now!

[poisondeathray]

There are mac compatible huffyuv variants (but isn't compatible on windows, so why would you do this?)
http://homepage.mac.com/yakc/huffyuv/download.html

ffmpeg has ffhuffyuv variant - ffmpeg is cross platform compatible and has many options, but doesn't run through quicktime - so you won't be able to access it in imovie, and the only mac GUI is ffmpegx, but it doesn't have all the options

ffmpeg has prores decoder and encoder now. That's bridges a huge gap in the pro video world. It's not lossless but very close at HQ and above settings

lagarith and ut video codec are available as decoder in ffmpeg (this means you can use it on a mac through ffmpeg), but no encoder yet (supposed to be coming)

With storage so cheap these days, would it be worth it to capture directly to either of those lossless codecs? My concern is the future.

Not from a DV source, but if it's something else like VHS cap, then it can be.

[SixFiftyThree]

In no cases should you capture off the analog outputs of a DV camcorder.

I have a question. If a tape's audio on straight DV capture via firewire is broken, but its audio is fine from the camera's analog output, wouldn't this be a scenario where it'd be necessary to cap from analog outputs?

I am in the above situation now, where the stream contains some corrupted sections with the audio dropping in and out. The rest of the tape is normal, and I've capped numerous times with the corruption always occurring in exactly the same spots. So presumably the only way I could get a clean track is to cap the analog stream.

I'd appreciate if I could get some clarification on this, thanks.

PS: Just to avoid any confusion, this footage was shot on the Digital8 camera, the tape was not used for digitizing formats such as VHS which would introduce more variables.

[2Bdecided]

In no cases should you capture off the analog outputs of a DV camcorder.

I have a question. If a tape's audio on straight DV capture via firewire is broken, but its audio is fine from the camera's analog output, wouldn't this be a scenario where it'd be necessary to cap from analog outputs?

Is the audio uncorrupted from the analogue outputs? Is the video uncorrupted via Firewire?

If so, it's quite easy to record just the audio via analogue, and drop it into the damaged sections of the digital transfer using an audio editor to match timing and levels. Or replace all the audio if there are lots of problem areas, using the digital version as a reference to maintain sync. As long as the digital video is fine, there's no reason to use analogue video capture.

FWIW I've never experienced what you experience. The digital (firewire) audio capture matches exactly what the camcorder plays out of its analogue connections, or else is silent (capturing type1/2 32kHz audio issue with some software). However, sometimes any video errors copied to PC are somewhat different from the same video errors show via the analogue outputs, so I guess it could happen with audio too. In the cases I've seen, both are wrecked in the same places, but sometimes in different ways.

Some DV capture software (not to mention analogue capture HW/SW) chokes on small errors and corrupts the next (good) video frame(s), while others recovers instantly. WinDV, which is very good in almost every other respect, seems poor in this specific area.

Cheers,
David.

[SixFiftyThree]

Is the audio uncorrupted from the analogue outputs? Is the video uncorrupted via Firewire?

If so, it's quite easy to record just the audio via analogue, and drop it into the damaged sections of the digital transfer using an audio editor to match timing and levels. Or replace all the audio if there are lots of problem areas, using the digital version as a reference to maintain sync. As long as the digital video is fine, there's no reason to use analogue video capture.

The audio is only corrupted in the captured/transferred file, when listening to the camera's playback of the audio, there are no issues with it. However the same video errors always show up on both camera playback and in the file, therefore must be damaged areas of tape instead of errors during capture. I assume those can't be resolved.

Your solution is basically what I had in mind, but I figured that by capping both video and audio from analog out, I could easily obtain sync by matching up the video frames of both captures in Vegas. Then just swap out the audio and trash the analog video cap. I'd only be replacing scenes that contain corrupted sections, not the entire stream, and if for some reason I still encountered timing issues, I could just replace those short scenes with the complete analog cap. I'd hopefully be covered for any situation.

FWIW I've never experienced what you experience. The digital (firewire) audio capture matches exactly what the camcorder plays out of its analogue connections, or else is silent (capturing type1/2 32kHz audio issue with some software). However, sometimes any video errors copied to PC are somewhat different from the same video errors show via the analogue outputs, so I guess it could happen with audio too. In the cases I've seen, both are wrecked in the same places, but sometimes in different ways.

From what I've seen, the video errors look identical, though I suppose I haven't inspected them closely. They do at least happen in the same places though, as you said.

I do recall seeing others with the same problem as mine, though it's been a while and I can't say for sure. There is that other problem where it seems that an audio stream is missing / silent, but all it requires is re-capping from that particular point where the audio was lost. That's the case with WinDV at least, and I believe it's caused by a change in audio recording quality on the tape. That or a result of re-used sections of tape. It's not what is happening here though, this particular cap actually has random audio dropouts, usually accompanied by video corruption artifacts.

Some DV capture software (not to mention analogue capture HW/SW) chokes on small errors and corrupts the next (good) video frame(s), while others recovers instantly. WinDV, which is very good in almost every other respect, seems poor in this specific area.

I wasn't aware of that, but I've used both WinDV and DVIO and the results are the same. I'm moving onto payware ScLive, has much more options I can make use of, so it'll be interesting to see if it caps any differently.