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  1. Member
    Join Date: Apr 2012
    Location: USA
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    I'm going to use video in an internet-based subscription service. There are significant license fees owed to MPEG LA when you have a large subscriber base and use any of these: MPEG-2, ATSC, AVC / H.264, MVC, VC1, MPEG-4 Visual, MPEG-2 Systems, 1394 and MPEG-4 Systems.


    I'm looking for an alternative that can be produced by Final Cut Pro X, some of which are listed here:
    • Broadcast Wave Format.
    • DV, DVCAM, DVCPRO, DVCPRO 50, and DVCPRO HD.
    • HDV.
    • Uncompressed 8- and 10-bit SD and HD.
    • Apple Intermediate Codec.
    Can anyone provide advice on which of these would produce high quality video/audio on the internet when used with the common browsers (MSIE, Firefox, Chrome, Safari, Opera) and have reasonable file sizes (through compression or otherwise)?

    Thanks.
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  2. Member
    Join Date: Sep 2007
    Location: Canada
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    Originally Posted by mottwsc View Post
    I'm going to use video in an internet-based subscription service. There are significant license fees owed to MPEG LA when you have a large subscriber base and use any of these: MPEG-2, ATSC, AVC / H.264, MVC, VC1, MPEG-4 Visual, MPEG-2 Systems, 1394 and MPEG-4 Systems.


    I'm looking for an alternative that can be produced by Final Cut Pro X, some of which are listed here:
    • Broadcast Wave Format.
    • DV, DVCAM, DVCPRO, DVCPRO 50, and DVCPRO HD.
    • HDV.
    • Uncompressed 8- and 10-bit SD and HD.
    • Apple Intermediate Codec.
    Can anyone provide advice on which of these would produce high quality video/audio on the internet when used with the common browsers (MSIE, Firefox, Chrome, Safari, Opera) and have reasonable file sizes (through compression or otherwise)?

    Thanks.

    None in your list is suitable for streaming with browsers

    Broadcast wave is audio only format

    DV, DVCAM, DVCPRO, DVCPRO 50, and DVCPRO HD. are interframe formats, and not suitable for streaming (large filesize, poor compression), and no platform supports them for streaming in browsers

    HDV is MPEG2 based and would require a license. (besides, MPEG2 is very poor for comrpession , not suitable for streaming, not supported by browsers either)

    Uncompressed and AIC are not suitable either, filesizes are too large, and not supported by browsers either




    The only semi viable alternative is Google's WebM, but requires HTML5, which reduces your audience substantially

    You probably have to bite the bullet and pay the fees for AVC/h.264
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  3. I concur with poisondeathray. WebM (VP8) is your only viable alternative. The good news is it's gaining ground as people update their browsers.
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  4. bad news (regarding VP8): it's not even on MPEG-4 ASP level
    WMV might be an alternative,... (but it requires plugins on all systems)
    -> at this current point in time I too would recommend to use AVC/H.264 + aac
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  5. Member
    Join Date: Apr 2012
    Location: USA
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    OK - looks like there really isn't an alternative now... maybe in the future.

    Thanks to all for your suggestions.
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  6. Member yoda313's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2004
    Location: The Animus
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    Originally Posted by selur
    WMV might be an alternative,... (but it requires plugins on all systems)
    Isn't that natively supported in internet explorer? I thought it would be since its Microsofts baby.
    Donatello - The Shredder? Michelangelo - Maybe all that hardware is for making coleslaw?
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  7. you are probably right there,.. (haven't used IE for quite some time,..)
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  8. Member yoda313's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2004
    Location: The Animus
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    Originally Posted by Selur View Post
    you are probably right there,.. (haven't used IE for quite some time,..)
    The only reason I mention it is I was on microsoft.com the other day for some excel tips and it was a wmv clip. I have generally migrated to firefox but keep internet explorer just because. It seemed to be a windows media player window. Since I don't regularly use internet explorer anymore I'm assuming thats built into the browser.

    Could be wrong but it was there.
    Donatello - The Shredder? Michelangelo - Maybe all that hardware is for making coleslaw?
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  9. Member
    Join Date: Apr 2012
    Location: Los Gatos, CA
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    Originally Posted by Selur View Post
    bad news (regarding VP8): it's not even on MPEG-4 ASP level
    WMV might be an alternative,... (but it requires plugins on all systems)
    -> at this current point in time I too would recommend to use AVC/H.264 + aac
    I beg to differ - Vp8 is a great quality alternative to AVC.

    If you are seeing results out of WEBM that aren't great ( comparable to what you get from 264 ) please post it as a bug here: http://code.google.com/p/webm/issues/entry

    and include all the information you used to produce the bad results.

    Jim Bankoski
    Engineering Manager - WebM Project
    Last edited by jimbankoski; 10th Apr 2012 at 08:25.
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  10. will do
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  11. Originally Posted by jimbankoski View Post
    I beg to differ - Vp8 is a great quality alternative to AVC... Jim Bankoski
    Engineering Manager - WebM Project
    How much do they pay you to say that? In my experience it's better than Xvid (MPEG 4, part 2, ASP), not as good as x264 (MPEG 4, part 10, AVC). But probably "good enough". The problems is the proportion of browsers with WebM/HTML5 in the field.

    By the way, is Google going to indemnify all the VP8 users when it's found to violate MPEG LA's patents?
    Last edited by jagabo; 10th Apr 2012 at 09:26.
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