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  1. Member
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    I have a Canon Legria/Vixia HF M41 Camcorder that records in AVCHD Format and I am looking desperately for a Software that supports "smart encoding" for my recorded files.

    The Camcorder records in 1440x1080,50i, 25fps in mts container. I have tried ALL recording qualities and the following software:

    - Power Director 10: SVRT option is greyed out so I cannot do smart encoding.
    - Magix Video Deluxe MX: Crashes with Acces Violation when I try to render
    - Edius 5.5: Does not perform smart encoding (where can I activate it)?
    - Sony Vegas 9: No smartencoding (Even though I activated it in the preferences)

    ALL of them failed for me to perform a smart encoding process (I added the vid to the project as it was when it came from the cam (no filters, nothing! to be 100% sure)

    Is there ANY video-editing software out on this planet that allowes me to smart render my clips? Or is it simply not working with Canons HF M series? Do I need to setup some special settings to make it to run?

    I am grateful for your help. Happy easter everyone!
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  2. Member Atak_Snajpera's Avatar
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    AVCHD is AVCHD and has nothing to do with "bad" canon camcorder.
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  3. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Vegas won't smart render h.264 yet. I hear they are working on it. It will smart render DV, HDV, XDCAM, HDCAM and most MPeg2 so long as source, project and export settings match.

    The new VideoReDo TV Suite h.264 ($95.99) claims to smart edit AVCHD but I haven't tested it yet.
    http://www.videoredo.com/en/index.htm
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  4. Member
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    smart rendering AVCHD - either videoredo beta 4 or solveigmm video splitter

    Vegas will too, if you set it up properly, but it's hit & miss (more miss)

    Nero claims to be able too, but it's also hit & miss (more miss)
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  5. Member
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    so all those promises of the established software out there being capable of smart render AVCHD material is nothing more than a marketing gag yet? Thats bad.
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  6. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by fox86 View Post
    so all those promises of the established software out there being capable of smart render AVCHD material is nothing more than a marketing gag yet? Thats bad.
    It's a difficult technical probalem because unlike DV/HDV, AVCHD uses variable bit rate and long GOPs.
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  7. Member
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    hm so there is no way to record with a AVCHD camcorder and get a good looking video out of it? All the software namend above have just produced some crappy video with alot of artefacts in it which cannot compete with the source material at all. This is really crazy and disappointing aswell...
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  8. What settings did you use for export?
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  9. Member
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    the same as input 1440x1080,50i, 25fps AVC. I tried serveal variants. None of them seems to work with smart rendering.
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  10. aBigMeanie aedipuss's Avatar
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    1440x1080 isn't a normal avchd size. it uses non-square pixels. try shooting square pixel 1920x1080.
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  11. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by aedipuss View Post
    1440x1080 isn't a normal avchd size. it uses non-square pixels. try shooting square pixel 1920x1080.
    1440x1080 25i/50i, 30i/60i @ 17 Mbps was the original AVCHD standard.

    Later 1920x1080 25i/50i, 30i/60i @ 24 Mbps was added.

    Version 2 AVCHD adds 1920x1080 50p/60p @ 28 Mbps and AVCHD Lite 1280x720 25p/30p (frame doubled).
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  12. Member
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    1440x1080 is the only resolution, the camera does. So to conclude: There is NO possibility to produce a good quality movie with a AVCHD camcorder because I am forced to re-encode every single bit with horrible results. (For Example if i encode in Power Director to 1440x1080 AVC Profile I get huge files with big artefacts. I would say a quality loss of 70%.
    So is this whole AVCHD thing just a hoax to us consumers? I mean, who cares about crispy HD recordings when you have to destroy all of its quality due the lack of compatible software?
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  13. Originally Posted by fox86 View Post
    the same as input 1440x1080,50i, 25fps AVC. I tried serveal variants. None of them seems to work with smart rendering.
    And bitrate ? Is it 2pass ? What is the average etc. This info is quite important.

    camcorder records 1920 x 1080i, 1440 x 1080i and 1920 x 1080p, 1440 x 1080p - http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/761888-REG/Canon_HFM41E_VIXIA_HF_M40_Flash.html

    You did not try Corel Video Studio Pro X4 , it is suppose to export with smart render.
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  14. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by fox86 View Post
    1440x1080 is the only resolution, the camera does. So to conclude: There is NO possibility to produce a good quality movie with a AVCHD camcorder because I am forced to re-encode every single bit with horrible results. (For Example if i encode in Power Director to 1440x1080 AVC Profile I get huge files with big artefacts. I would say a quality loss of 70%.
    So is this whole AVCHD thing just a hoax to us consumers? I mean, who cares about crispy HD recordings when you have to destroy all of its quality due the lack of compatible software?
    Vegas (Sony AVC codec) does a reasonable recode if you keep the bit rate equivalent to source. Power Director probably defaults to low bit rate for Youtube upload.

    Alternately, you can cut on I frames (1/2 second accuracy with 12 frame GOPs*) with zero loss with an h.264 cutter.


    * lower camera bit rate settings may use longer GOPs.
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  15. Member
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    Fox86

    As you have unsuccessfully tried those programs you might as well have a go at one of the free ones: AVIDEMUX version 6.0 and above.

    I have been using it with my AVCHD files produced by Canon Legria HF S11 mainly in doing simple trimming. Not sure if it does smart rendering.
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  16. Member
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    Originally Posted by _Al_ View Post
    Originally Posted by fox86 View Post
    the same as input 1440x1080,50i, 25fps AVC. I tried serveal variants. None of them seems to work with smart rendering.
    And bitrate ? Is it 2pass ? What is the average etc. This info is quite important.

    camcorder records 1920 x 1080i, 1440 x 1080i and 1920 x 1080p, 1440 x 1080p - http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/761888-REG/Canon_HFM41E_VIXIA_HF_M40_Flash.html

    You did not try Corel Video Studio Pro X4 , it is suppose to export with smart render.
    I didnt found any option in the cam to record in 1920 x 1080. I tried to install Corel Video Studio Pro X4 on my computer. But it doesnt work. It crashes with Error 135 during installation. Alot of users have that problem. Corel knows it, but they do nothing against it. Seems like they dont wanna make money with their software.
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  17. Member
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    Originally Posted by shaema View Post
    Fox86

    As you have unsuccessfully tried those programs you might as well have a go at one of the free ones: AVIDEMUX version 6.0 and above.

    I have been using it with my AVCHD files produced by Canon Legria HF S11 mainly in doing simple trimming. Not sure if it does smart rendering.
    I worked with Vegas 9 before and I think I will stick with it. It does no smart encoding, but the re-encoded result looks at least good compared with that junk, the other software is producing.

    I knew about avidemux, but i need a little more than trimming (adding music, fade in/out, breaks with text.

    This whole thing is really a huge disappointment to me. I just started diving into filming and besides Iam a software programmer, I really wonder why all those big studios do nothing to make life with AVCHD better
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  18. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by fox86 View Post

    This whole thing is really a huge disappointment to me. I just started diving into filming and besides Iam a software programmer, I really wonder why all those big studios do nothing to make life with AVCHD better
    AVCHD was created to stuff as much reasonable quality video as possible into relatively expensive flash media. This is what the typical consumer demanded. Few consumers ever edit or care to.

    The downside of AVCHD is limited editing capability (due to long GOPs and VBR), high power CPU requirement (due to h.264 decode overhead) and generation loss vs. the MPeg2 CBR alternatives. Pros use frame based formats (DV, DVCPro, AVCIntra, HDCAM), or higher bit rates for GOP based formats (HDV, XDCAM).

    As average computers gain CPU/GPU power over time, AVCHD will become easier to edit. The format demands processing grunt.
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  19. Member TreeTops's Avatar
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    Fox, you say: "I didn[']t found [find] any option in the cam to record in 1920 x 1080".

    But your camera specs say this: AVCHD - 1920 x 1080 - 24Mbps - require SDHC Class 4 or higher AVCHD - 1920 x 1080 - 17Mbps - require SDHC Class 4 or higher.

    Maybe your card is not a class 4 or higher therefore the camera will not shoot in those modes until you get a class 4 card.
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  20. Member
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    Originally Posted by TreeTops View Post
    Fox, you say: "I didn[']t found [find] any option in the cam to record in 1920 x 1080".

    But your camera specs say this: AVCHD - 1920 x 1080 - 24Mbps - require SDHC Class 4 or higher AVCHD - 1920 x 1080 - 17Mbps - require SDHC Class 4 or higher.

    Maybe your card is not a class 4 or higher therefore the camera will not shoot in those modes until you get a class 4 card.
    I record on M41's built-in flash. I can choose between different quality presets, but they just vary in bitrate. No 1920x1080 there afaik.
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  21. Member TreeTops's Avatar
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    Look in the manual. Look for video specs and see if the specs I mentioned is there. Your supplied SD card probably is not a class 4 so the camera ignores those specs until you purchase a class 4 (or better) card.
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  22. aBigMeanie aedipuss's Avatar
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    you have to put the camera into manual mode, then the settings for video recording quality are available.

    Click image for larger version

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  23. Member
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    Originally Posted by fox86 View Post
    hm so there is no way to record with a AVCHD camcorder and get a good looking video out of it? All the software namend above have just produced some crappy video with alot of artefacts in it which cannot compete with the source material at all. This is really crazy and disappointing aswell...
    Could you give us a sample of original video where SolveigMM Splitterworks with problems? we'll take a look shortly what's wrong there.
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  24. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by fox86 View Post
    1440x1080 is the only resolution, the camera does. So to conclude: There is NO possibility to produce a good quality movie with a AVCHD camcorder because I am forced to re-encode every single bit with horrible results.
    Suggest you try either Videoredo TVSuite H.264 or Sony Vegas Platinum (source = project @1440x1080i to Sony AVC codec @ 1440x1080i, 16 Mbps) then compare to source.
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  25. aBigMeanie aedipuss's Avatar
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    I tried to install Corel Video Studio Pro X4 on my computer. But it doesnt work. It crashes with Error 135 during installation. Alot of users have that problem. Corel knows it, but they do nothing against it. Seems like they dont wanna make money with their software.
    try this fix. open up the registry key shown below. if there is a "zone" listed before 0 then you need to delete it. it is blocking certain installers. it was most likely installed improperly by an adobe reader update.

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  26. Member
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    @aedipuss : nope that doesnt work, i just have the entries 0-4 there. It seems like Corel has some really heavy problems with their software. I checked their forum. Alot of people cant install it and they said they have no idea.

    @DmitryV
    Well SolveigMM splitter is one of many ACHD capable cutting tools out there. If it would support simple editing features like Text, fade-in, fade-out effects and just reencode those special parts and join the rest losless, it would be a amazing piece of software that would sell massively. So far, Magix is promising that, but it does not really work in 99% of the cases, Sony doesnt care about smart encoding (yet), Corel is not even able to make their software work on Windows 7 computers = epic fail.
    I wonder why no programming company is taking up that chance to produce a software, nearly every comcorder-user would need. so: Hello? Any programmer out there who wanna make big money?
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  27. aBigMeanie aedipuss's Avatar
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    corel products work fine here on win7 64bit. i use paintshot pro x4 and corelDraw pro suite x6 without any problems(once i got rid of that weird registry entry).
    Last edited by aedipuss; 18th Apr 2012 at 14:18.
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  28. Member
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    I tried again with Power Director now:

    1. My video: 1920x1080, 25FPS, FXP-Mode, H264 AVCHD, 1min 28sec.
    2. For Rendering I choose the Standard profile: AVCHD 1920x1080/50I

    Result: I cant choose SVRT.

    So:

    1) is it not available in the demo?
    2) is my Canon M41 somehow strange and not supported?
    3) did I do anything wrong?

    I tried all software now, all settings of my cam, not a single success with any tool. Whats wrong?


    EDIT: Ok after long research, I found out that the Trial Version does not support SVRT. The big problem now: I can't test with the fullversion.
    Last edited by fox86; 18th Apr 2012 at 15:21.
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  29. Member
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    Okay End of the Story:

    I bought ordered Power Director 10 Ultra, and will give it a try.
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  30. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by fox86 View Post
    Okay End of the Story:

    I bought ordered Power Director 10 Ultra, and will give it a try.
    Report back how it works please.
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