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  1. Member
    Join Date: Mar 2012
    Location: Gold Coast, Australia
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    I have just started editing HD recordings made from a set-top box via Hauppage PVR and would appreciate some guidance.

    The native files are in .TS format and, recording at the maximum Hauppage setting of 13.5mbps, I get a file size of around 11GB for a football match of around 1h45m. My simple logic was therefore telling me that I could get two matches at this resolution onto one Blu-Ray disc for future viewing on my BD player (Samsung - I think BD1400).

    However, I have a number of problems. Using Power Director 10 to do some minor editting (ad breaks etc), my original 11GB file blows up to around 12.5GB when I re-save the file in .m2Ts (AVC/H.264) AVCHD format. Then, when I try and compile a Blu-Ray disc for burning, it blows up again to around 15GB (I haven't actually burnt a disc yet but this is what the menu tells me after I've prepared to burn). If I cut out the intermediate step of creating the .m2Ts file and go straight to burn the BD after editting the .TS, the same thing happens i.e. a size increase from 11GB to around 15GB. Therefore, I can't get my two football games onto one BD.

    Being a novice, I am confused on two fronts. Firstly, why does the first file size increase occur when going from .TS to .m2Ts? I thought these formats were more or less the same (the Hauppage does allow recording in native .m2Ts but all of the recordings I have done to date are in .TS)?

    Secondly, I assume the second file size increase occurs because Power Director is converting again from .m2TS to BDMV format?

    Finally, is it possible to edit the videos into .m2Ts format and then, using a different BD burning software tool, burn the files as "data" files directly to BD? If so, will my player still play them (I read somewhere that the file structure for AVCHD and BDMV is similar and compatible).

    Thanks in advance for any help.
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  2. Member
    Join Date: Oct 2004
    Location: Freedonia
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    I've had good results using the free tsmuxer to generate either AVCHD or BD content that I've burned to discs. My player will play both. Yes, the file structure is similar between the two but some fussy players may not support AVCHD very well. Note that tsmuxer does NOT support menus at all, so if all you need to do is just drop your 2 video files into it and produce BD output, it can definitely do that. You can set chapters on your videos if you want, but no menus.
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  3. Member yoda313's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2004
    Location: The Animus
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    Originally Posted by ROBTE
    Finally, is it possible to edit the videos into .m2Ts format and then, using a different BD burning software tool, burn the files as "data" files directly to BD? If so, will my player still play them
    Try this - chop up a file you have so it can fit on a dvdr and try it on your player. THan you can now for sure if your player can handle the raw format. (or just record a few minutes of any show at the same resolution and bitrate to get a good comparison).

    The ps3 can play unaltered m2ts files from the hdpvr. I'm not sure about regular standalone bluray players as I don't have one (I do have a ps3 and have done it with just a file and also as an authored avchd disc on dvdr).

    FYI for burning always use imgburn. The no. 1 burning software recommended highly by a vast majority of the users on this website.

    Edit - I don't know if a hdpvr m2ts file can be burned as data on bdr. There is no reason it can't. You're only difficulty might be getting any program to stop trying to author it as video rather than as a file.

    But imgburn should be able to burn as data to bdr. However I don't have a bluray burner to confirm this - I only have a bdrom on my pc.
    Donatello - The Shredder? Michelangelo - Maybe all that hardware is for making coleslaw?
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  4. Member JimmyJoeBob's Avatar
    Join Date: Oct 2005
    Location: Gun Barrel City, TX
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    Use AVCHDCoder. It will take up to 8 separate files, create a menu and re-encode to any size you dictate using x264 and play in any blu-ray player that can play AVCHD. Best of all it's free.
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  5. Member
    Join Date: Mar 2012
    Location: Gold Coast, Australia
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    Thanks guys - some good advice there. I'll try some experimenting.

    Does anybody have an answer to the "increasing file size issue" i.e. when using Power Director (and I think I had the same issue when I tried doing it through Corel Video Studio Pro) , why does a .TS or .m2Ts file grow by around 20%-25% in size when you try and burn it to Blu-Ray? As noted before, is this because it is converting from AVCHD to BDMV format?

    Thanks again.
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  6. Member yoda313's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2004
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    When you say you are making a bluray are you making a menu with it? Is it fancy at all? Any videos or animated stuff flying around? You have to account for that overhead to make the menu itself. (thats the way it is when making dvds that is the experience I'm drawing from as I don't have a bluray burner but the technique should be exactly the same in theory just different guts that are going into the production).

    If its just a static no frills menu or no menu at all than I can't account for the size difference. It should be virtually the same size with just a new structure in my opinion. Though since I haven't done it myself (for bluray authoring) there might be some "padding" done in the authoring of a video into bluray that I don't know about - but 20% sounds high for fluff padding for just file structure needs.

    Edit - also are you a 100% sure these are totally bluray compliant? There might be some reencoding being done with whatever program you are using. If they aren't completely bluray compliant that could be what is going on.
    Donatello - The Shredder? Michelangelo - Maybe all that hardware is for making coleslaw?
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  7. Member
    Join Date: Mar 2012
    Location: Gold Coast, Australia
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    Thanks yoda313. I'm not putting any menus or fancy stuff with it. In the example in question, I've done the following:

    1) Recorded two football games via Hauppage in .TS format. Two hours of recording at 13.5mbps gives raw files of just under 12GB each.

    2) Edited both files (to remove ad breaks etc) in Power Director to around 1h:45m each and saved them as AVCHD format, which, in Power Director is AVC/H.264 or .m2Ts format. This results in two files which are just under 12.5GB each. Obviously, this is odd in itself because I've removed content. However, I suspect what Power Director does when it saves a file to .m2Ts format is use a bit-rate slightly higher than the original 13.5mbps the files are recorded in;

    3) Added these two 12.5GB files together in Power Director and prepared to burn a Blu Ray disc without any menus. When I select this option, it increases the space required to 30GB, obviously more than can be fitted onto a disc.

    Even if I omit step 2) and edit the two original files and try and burn them directly to Blu Ray, the same thing happens with the total space required.
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  8. Member fritzi93's Avatar
    Join Date: Nov 2003
    Location: U.S.
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    You should use a bitrate calculator so you know what bitrate to set in your capture module (assuming you're using the Arcsoft capture software provided). If you know the runtime or can estimate it deducting adverts, that would be better. Then use tsMuxer as jman suggests.

    I use this procedure: Calculate bitrate and set capture module. Capture video with HD-PVR. Edit out adverts with tsSniper. Author with tsMuxer.
    Pull! Bang! Darn!
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  9. Member yoda313's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2004
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    Originally Posted by robte
    Edited both files (to remove ad breaks etc) in Power Director to around 1h:45m each and saved them as AVCHD format, which, in Power Director is AVC/H.264 or .m2Ts format. This results in two files which are just under 12.5GB each. Obviously, this is odd in itself because I've removed content. However, I suspect what Power Director does when it saves a file to .m2Ts format is use a bit-rate slightly higher than the original 13.5mbps the files are recorded in;
    It sounds like Power Director is reencoding the edited files. If you take stuff out and save it as the same format the file size has to be smaller. If it isn't and it is quite a bit larger than expected it must be reencoding it.

    Originally Posted by fritzi93
    Edit out adverts with tsSniper. Author with tsMuxer.
    Is that lossless passthru? Is that doing just a cut and no reencoding?

    That should be what you use Robte. If that is indeeded a lossless cutting tool that way you get rid of what you don't want and leave the original video untouched at a smaller file size with the removed portion.
    Donatello - The Shredder? Michelangelo - Maybe all that hardware is for making coleslaw?
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  10. Member fritzi93's Avatar
    Join Date: Nov 2003
    Location: U.S.
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    Yeah, no re-encoding. Although tsSniper is not frame accurate, with a little practice it may be good enough. It helps if there are black frames to cut on or at least a fade in/out, then the cut can be pretty fair. It seeks forward to a keyframe, so keep that in mind; sometimes there's no option but to back up a few tenths of a second to avoid running past a scene cut to the opening frames of an advert. That can be jarring, better to lose a little on a fade, front or back. Then author with tsMuxer.

    Now that I have an HDTV that will play (H264, MPEG2) transport streams and MKVs direct from external USB connected hard drive, I'm less concerned with hitting a target size. But there you are, that method will work and may be acceptable.
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  11. Member yoda313's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by fritzi93
    Yeah, no re-encoding.
    Thanks for confirming that. That should help out robte.
    Donatello - The Shredder? Michelangelo - Maybe all that hardware is for making coleslaw?
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  12. Member
    Join Date: Aug 2006
    Location: United States
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    If a frame-accurate editor is needed, VideoReDo TVSuite H.264 is supposed to be able to edit files created by the Hauppauge HD-PVR. VideoReDo TVSuite H.264 uses smart rendering, which means it re-encodes only around the edits, so it should not increase the file size. VideoReDo TVSuite H.264 does not include BD authoring, and it is not inexpensive, but it has a free trial, so prospective buyers should be able to find out whether or not it is satisfactory without paying for it first.
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  13. Member
    Join Date: Mar 2012
    Location: Gold Coast, Australia
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    Thanks all - it turns out I was being a bit dense. The standard setting in Power Director for rendering an AVCHD is 15.5mbps. When I input a custom setting of 13.5mbps (as per the Hauppage output) and edit the files, the file sizes are as expected i.e. no growth.

    I'm now trying to get my head around the other file size problem when using Power Director to create a BD. I think I'll try imgburn or AVCHDCoder as suggested earlier.

    Thanks again for the help.
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  14. Member JimmyJoeBob's Avatar
    Join Date: Oct 2005
    Location: Gun Barrel City, TX
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    Originally Posted by RobTE View Post
    Thanks all - it turns out I was being a bit dense. The standard setting in Power Director for rendering an AVCHD is 15.5mbps. When I input a custom setting of 13.5mbps (as per the Hauppage output) and edit the files, the file sizes are as expected i.e. no growth.

    I'm now trying to get my head around the other file size problem when using Power Director to create a BD. I think I'll try imgburn or AVCHDCoder as suggested earlier.

    Thanks again for the help.
    Actually both together is the key to perfect encodes and burns.

    You wont't regret it.
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  15. Member
    Join Date: Oct 2005
    Location: USA
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    I have the Hauppage Collossus capture card. What I've been doing is capturing using the bundled Arcsoft software at 12mbps. I use videoredo to do any editing. Then multiAVCHD to create the menus and disc image. Then burn with imgburn.

    I am starting to have a lot of audiosync issues though. It was working fine. I'll give AVCHDCoder a try.

    Thanks
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