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  1. Member
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    Originally Posted by mammo1789 View Post
    Interpolation doesn't always work well. Sometimes you get weird morphing edges and artifacts
    You mean like this one http://www.mediafire.com/?ra82f0br392g9f3
    Do i get on the end interlaced file or interpolated ( deinterlaced) ?


    I encoded the three files mkv ( x264 l3 5000kbs cbr)


    I’m thinking that this script is doing some kind of jitter reduction http://www.mediafire.com/?o5m12hvaszz2wwl ( with little blurring waterly effect) the neat video version seams has more details http://www.mediafire.com/?o5m12hvaszz2wwl ( or suppressed more noise aka the lower size on the same settings) but jitters a lot( its 1 generation copy from tv program directly). The Panasonic fs200 vcr tbc seems that has no impact on this error, on or off ( full tbc ? I didn’t try the dvd recorder passtrough es15 because its hooked up in my living room tv temporarily now.



    I see that median is part of this script , does that means 3 layers of the video are taken plant on one another and median from them is taken as last export file or and what effect does that have ?
    Yes, it uses a median function as part of the script . You can play with the script and values and see what it does.

    Did you interpolate those frames for the blurring water effect ? (did you specify those fields exactly? actually interpolation should be done on grouped separated fields, not frames, but I was lazy in that example) . If you didn't, those edge artifacts are likely from the high RemoveDirtMC value in the 2nd section. Just reduce it. 500 is a huge amount, you usually use about 20-50 on "regular" material. You're supposed to adjust the script after the 1st section. Remember I said that example was a "strong" script, and you should use a composite of weak and strong. You might need different values or even different script for different sections.

    The first one isn't a good example of edge morphing artifacts. You wont' see combing unless there is motion

    When I use the term "Interpolation" in this context it means replace entire frames or fields (using those function R, RP, RX, or mflowinter). You might be using the phrase differently
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  2. I wanted to thank all the people that contribute to this project although in the other tread that I post about the same problem and this sequence long ago a lot sad that its incorrigibly. It was important family footage on two separate tapes that I don't have them anymore.
    I started with the histogram view in avisynth and corrected the levels ( there were a lot of superwhites and little superblacks)
    Then i used the median script from jagabo ( i had recorded 5 separate recordings before the tapes were ruined ) and from there used poisondeathray script about drop outs ( I deleted the removegrain part as suggested by poisn because the filter took too much detail ) and let it fry for a long time ( 0,78 fps ).
    After that I opened vdub and for my surprise the camcordercolor denoise filter worked brilliantly on that color bleed and on same flakes on the people's faces that any other noise reduction failed( including neatvideo) and I didn't noticed any ruining of the detail. On top of that I used neat video for final touch and some color mill. So here are the results what you guys think


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  3. Member themaster1's Avatar
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    That's a good job i'd say, your earned the "restoration of the week" prize.
    For best results you should do everything in avisynth
    The black shirt look too bright or i dunno, smtg's not ok with the blacks
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  4. That's a good job I'd say, your earned the "restoration of the week" prize.
    Thanks master and for your help also.

    The black shirt look too bright or i dunno, smtg's not ok with the blacks
    Hm i think also ( back to sketching board . I find levels adjustment still challenging If you can see by the pictures there was some clipping and I used 40 because on other place was even worse maybe something got screed with colormill I don't know I will have to check. Also I think I can solve the pink bleed ( I'm working on it now, no Photoshop no frame by frame editing just avisynth and vduv) and will try to deghost ( as conservative as possible to preserve the details and maybe some final sharpening with msu smart sharpen ). I think that the tape came up pretty ok ( i was not expecting it ) even the other one with interview came up ok, and I was ready for disaster.
    I hope it can help others with similar drop outs/ bleed problems.
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    O and because this is just hobby for me ( only personal and relatives ). My friend has asked me to do some conversation job for him but I told him to go to professional service because he has only 3 tapes. The "pro" used ( I was there) Camacrown VCR (wtf) with composite cables in to Easy TV capture card ( bt878) and captured in pinnacle studio 8 ( mpeg2 dvd compliant software capture) then burned the file ( with same software) on dvd and give to my friend ( although the price was very cheap only 2$ for a tape. I stared to laugh and tell him to come to my house and we can do it for free and much much better ( only when i have the time and patience). I'm impressed as how people can make money out of nothing ( I don't even want to mention their expertise and their experience ) and here on this site there are people that can put even real (not "real") pros ashamed and they help as a lot for free.
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    Last edited by sanlyn; 21st Mar 2014 at 21:06.
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  6. Nice work on the noise and damage, but these images look odd because contrast (brights) are too high and midtones are too high on the rgb scale. They will look burned-out when played on TV.
    Surprisingly it looked ok on 42 inch Samsung lcd but i get your point, odd thing is that if I look at histogram ( or vectorscope in avisynth ) there are superblacks and superwhites ( the reason i suppress them is because i do conversation to rgb so i will lost precision and the picture even original on vcr looks burned out contrast ) but look ok on the eye ( corrected with internal pci proc amp during capture ), if I correct them then it look bad on the eye but ok on the waveform go figure.


    Can you suggest something based on the picture or you can download short sequence of the cleaned material mjpeg http://www.mediafire.com/?wewpypysw6rsnh2


    I will try in sony vegas or adobe premiere ( i think they have better color correction filters )
    any suggestion about color correction is welcome
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    Last edited by mammo1789; 8th Mar 2012 at 10:46.
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    1) Yellow looks too hot for me in that scene - it's broadcast "illegal" on a vectorscope . So you would desaturate yellow slightly (or use some sort of "broadcast legal" filter) - otherwise chroma clipping will reduce level of detail

    But the previous scene is ok in terms of vectorscope (with closeup of the dog)



    2) Be careful about mjpeg - you can get completely different results depending on what decoder you are using

    e.g. ffdshow or libav based decoders will decode full range - so you will get Y' illegal, Cb illegal - So luma and chroma clipping

    But something like picvideo will clip levels - completely different results . Others will clamp levels - different again
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  8. Thanks poisondeathray yea i know about mjpeg but I was only uploading for lower sizes for download instead of more compressed format like mpeg ( I keep all my material as lagarith on hard disk even after h264 compression which I do in recent times instead of the DVD format which is bulky and inconvenient and put them on flash drive to watch them on lcd tv )
    I lowered the yellow a little bit it seems that the studio background and the host chair are the same color and the white black carpet is terrible so it's not happy scene
    The black looks washed out i changed to more black ( but now the contrast is up and its looks a little burned on ) picture above in premiere. By the way the previous post pictures are from unclean video, so to strait illegal's colors and contrast before all the processing
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    Originally Posted by mammo1789 View Post
    Thanks poisondeathray yea i know about mjpeg but I was only uploading for lower sizes for download instead of more compressed format like mpeg ( I keep all my material as lagarith on hard disk even after h264 compression which I do in recent times instead of the DVD format which is bulky and inconvenient and put them on flash drive to watch them on lcd tv )
    I lowered the yellow a little bit it seems that the studio background and the host chair are the same color and the white black carpet is terrible so it's not happy scene
    The black looks washed out i changed to more black ( but now the contrast is up and its looks a little burned on ) picture above in premiere. By the way the previous post pictures are from unclean video, so to strait illegal's colors and contrast before all the processing

    Obviously, you will have to make adjustments by scene.

    My comments were regarding the mjpeg video from the link above , but if you're using a different VFW mjpeg decoder, you might be seeing something entirely different because of different levels . Be very careful about using mjpeg

    You use selective color correction, otherwise if you decrease yellow , the other colors will be affected too (e.g. "white" will no longer be white) . For example, in that 2nd scene, I would narrow in on the yellow range and just selectively desaturate that
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  10. You use selective color correction, otherwise if you decrease yellow , the other colors will be affected too (e.g. "white" will no longer be white) . For example, in that 2nd scene, I would narrow in on the yellow range and just selectively desaturate that
    How to do that i am little lost ( is there only one of the rgb channels that i can work at without affctin the others )what filter you suggestClick image for larger version

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    Here is screen of premiere and yellow seems way illegal
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    premiere has either "broadcast colors" effect, or you can use " three way color corrector" or "rgb color corrector" by using "tonal range" parameter ... I'm sure there are other ways as well. Most effects are "keyframeable" , so you can adjust over time or by scene

    Have a look in the help pdf (it's downloadble from Adobe), there are instructions and pictures
    http://help.adobe.com/en_US/premierepro/cs/using/WS118C587F-B312-4268-B0C5-A7E722E25C92.html
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    Another way you might be able do it is in avisynth with tweak, using starthue and endhue , this way you can stay in YUV
    http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/Tweak

    You might use Trim() or ApplyRange() to limit the effect of filters or apply to sections


    (Personally I find color work easier to handle in RGB)
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  13. I used broadcast and I'm not to satisfied
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    Have a look in the help pdf (it's downloadble from Adobe), there are instructions and pictures
    http://help.adobe.com/en_US/premiere...722E25C92.html
    I will try that now thanks
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    Originally Posted by mammo1789 View Post
    I used broadcast and I'm not to satisfied
    That's the problem with any "automatic" filter, you usually don't get as good results as manual with your own eye


    But can modulate any effect, e.g. use 2 layers, top layer with effect applied and adjust the opacity of the top layer

    The filter itself has settings too, e.g. you can alter the way it handles clipping and level you might want it at 105 instead of 100 for example, or you might want it to affect luminance instead
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    Originally Posted by mammo1789 View Post
    I keep all my material as lagarith on hard disk

    Also be careful of using lagarith in premiere - it's not treated as "YCbCr", so you can get clipping as well (both Y' and CbCr) . It undergoes Rec601 conversion to RGB . So it's not truly lossless in premiere

    Those "YUV" labelled filters in premiere only work as "YUV" if premiere treats the input as "YUV" - generally those are only native camera formats (e.g. dv, hdv, avchd, xdcam, avcintra 100) , but also v210. Commonly used "lossless" formats like lagarith, huffyuv, ut video are not treated as "YUV"
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    Last edited by sanlyn; 21st Mar 2014 at 21:07.
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  17. Also be careful of using lagarith in premiere - it's not treated as "YCbCr", so you can get clipping as well (both Y' and CbCr) . It undergoes Rec601 conversion to RGB . So it's not truly lossless in premiere
    Does it goes to conversation if the file is already lagarith rgb?


    I usually convert lagarith in rgb in vdub ( as result of the filtering there) and output rgb lagarith as result. As some discussion with Jagabo some time ago that means that only one conversation took place and I get RGB ( lossless) which can be manipulated many times without loss of quality in rgb aware NLE programs ( like Sony vegas and premiere ) then inputted in tmpgenc or mainconcept reference which are also rgb input software's I go rgb route all the way till the final color conversation to final codec ( mpeg2 or h264). I know is not usually good to make color conversation along the way but I use vdub daily and i do some cg animation ( wich are rgb) to do some intros and menus and mix with mine material ( which will be hard to stay in yuv all the time and use only avisynth).

    Those "YUV" labelled filters in premiere only work as "YUV" if premiere treats the input as "YUV" - generally those are only native camera formats (e.g. dv, hdv, avchd, xdcam, avcintra 100) , but also v210. Commonly used "lossless" formats like lagarith, huffyuv, ut video are not treated as "YUV"
    Hm i didn't know that good to know
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    lagarith in RGB mode is ok - it's handled as RGB by premiere and lossless compared to the RGB input

    But be careful how you convert to RGB -

    1)Interlaced chroma sampling - if you have a YV12 source, vdub won't do the conversion correctly unless you force YUY2 . If you convert using avisynth (interlaced=true) the sampling will be correct

    2) Either fix levels (Y and CbCr) before converting to RGB, or use full range matrix to prevent clipping
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  19. The way to get it right (and make it easier on yourself) is to learn to use gradation curves, to read histograms, and to use your software's pixel sampler to check area colors.
    I'm learning that right now i will see the effect of it

    The samples posted have midtones shoved to the bright left and highlights blown out (with crushed darks). It's not ferasible to correct colors without first making general corrections in levels, which are tweaked as colors are brought into line.
    You are talking about the last samples right? they were just a test in premiere or the original footage i think i fix the levels there ( not the colors) .

    I don't have the original source (which was repaired, and a nice job it was), but this previously color-corrected sample posted is beyond further correction, mainly because bright red has been set oversaturated. More green is needed in the skin tones, but that's impossible without turning the dog green. (After Effects. Premiere Pro has a similar gradation curves control).
    http://www.mediafire.com/?o7e74grcw6p7m43 here is the original source uncleaned and uncorrected pure lagarith ( converted to mjpeg yuv).

    So do you generaly mean is better to correct the colors ( levels i assume will be corrected before to avoid crushing of blacks and whites during rgb conversation) before the cleanup or after. And can you tell me what preferences to use on this clip to get colors right
    Thanks sanlyn
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  20. 1)Interlaced chroma sampling - if you have a YV12 source, vdub won't do the conversion correctly unless you force YUY2 . If you convert using avisynth (interlaced=true) the sampling will be correct
    by that you mean force yuv2 in "color depth" in vdub instead of auto right? I do that with yuv2 files ( yv12 the same ?)

    2) Either fix levels (Y and CbCr) before converting to RGB, or use full range matrix to prevent clipping
    by that you mean pc.601?
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    Originally Posted by mammo1789 View Post
    1)Interlaced chroma sampling - if you have a YV12 source, vdub won't do the conversion correctly unless you force YUY2 . If you convert using avisynth (interlaced=true) the sampling will be correct
    by that you mean force yuv2 in "color depth" in vdub instead of auto right? I do that with yuv2 files ( yv12 the same ?)
    If source clip is yuy2, then it's ok for interlaced chroma upscaling, vdub does it correctly - only problem remaining then is rec conversion (clipping) . Forcing YUY2 in color depth for vdub is only a workaround for YV12 interlaced source clips

    2) Either fix levels (Y and CbCr) before converting to RGB, or use full range matrix to prevent clipping
    by that you mean pc.601?
    Yes , if converting to RGB, but using PC matrix will stretch the contrast (look flatter) because white & black points are mapped differently

    With rec matrix Y' 16-235 => RGB 0-255

    With PC matrix Y' 0-255 => RGB 0-255
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  22. So what should i do use the pc601 matrix before going to vdub or not ?
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    Originally Posted by mammo1789 View Post
    So what should i do use the pc601 matrix before going to vdub or not ?

    It depends on what you are doing

    If your clips are typical like those earlier screenshots (very bright oversaturated yellow in some sections) , then you either 1) fix it in YUV or 2) use full range matrix for RGB conversion. Because if you don't you will clip some of that data and those details will be irrecoverable
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    The chroma isn't actually clipping in YUV, in that scene, it's just very imbalanced. You can check with coloryuv(analyze=true) and/or use histogram("levels") . You'd probably be safe just fixing Y' and using rec matrix (but you'd have to check other sections of video to be sure)
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  25. Ok one more round before bed Name:  m4.png
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    the first picture is from corrected levels (scene 5 with the host) second one is original cleaned and properly pc601 converted to rgb without color correction and third is scene 2 dog cleaned and color corrected.

    As you can see ( with vdub color tools hot pixel scan to black pal 255 i wanted to see where illegals are happening precisely so) color correction using curves p brightness and contrast and broadcast colors set to desaturated ( it desaturated yellow ) 105.
    It seems that black is back and I didn't wanted to go to much blue cast.

    As you can see i will have to make separate color correction for close up scenes and studio scenes ( because while dog scene is right and legal the studio has some illegal pixels i guess)

    This time i used the temporal filter in neatvideo( 1 threshold 15 Y 53% 100chroma) so its little more blurry than before ( because i think i used temporal before in avisynth and this was just double but I'm sleepy.

    Any suggestions welcome

    I came along way from start but Rome was not build in a day i continue the "fight" with this tape tomorrow
    Last edited by mammo1789; 9th Mar 2012 at 01:21.
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  26. Member 2Bdecided's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    If your clips are typical like those earlier screenshots (very bright oversaturated yellow in some sections) , then you either 1) fix it in YUV or 2) use full range matrix for RGB conversion. Because if you don't you will clip some of that data and those details will be irrecoverable
    Even full range RGB conversion can clip over saturated YUV colours. I haven't checked if this happens in this case, but I have tapes where it happens. It's a real pain.

    Cheers,
    David.
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    Originally Posted by 2Bdecided View Post
    Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    If your clips are typical like those earlier screenshots (very bright oversaturated yellow in some sections) , then you either 1) fix it in YUV or 2) use full range matrix for RGB conversion. Because if you don't you will clip some of that data and those details will be irrecoverable
    Even full range RGB conversion can clip over saturated YUV colours. I haven't checked if this happens in this case, but I have tapes where it happens. It's a real pain.
    Yes it can happen, also out of gamut colors from YUV=>RGB . I posted an example in another thread with colored lighting that clips even with full range matrix conversion to RGB. You need different values (a negative transfer function instead of Rec601/709) to preserve more of the data in those cases - Rec 1361 or wide gamut RGB

    So getting it fairly close in YUV , then fine tune in RGB is probably more ideal for "best practices"

    But in his example, it's not that extreme
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    Regarding of Gradation curves Filter anyone is having issues with it on Win7 (x64) like i do ?
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  29. Just to clarify if i open avysinth script that is doing color conversation ( full matrix for instance) in vdub and stack some vd filters in and choose full process and lagarith rgb as output ( I assume vd will not screw and do the conversation again he will accept rgb from the input avs as is and not do any conversation right? poi

    Regarding of Gradation curves Filter anyone is having issues with it on Win7 (x64) like i do ?
    What issues are encountering master (you ask about vd filter right?) I have win 7 64 and its working fine, but the color tool 1.4 is crashing all the time
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