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  1. Member
    Join Date: Dec 2011
    Location: Utah
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    My config:
    ZALMAN, HD503 Black Entertainment PC Enclosure, LCD, ATX, No PSU
    OCZ, ZX Series Power Supply w/ Modular Cables, 850W, 80 PLUS® Gold, 24-pin ATX12V v2.2 EPS12V, Four 8/6-pin PCIe
    INTEL, Core™ i7-960 Quad-Core, 3.2GHz, LGA1366, 4.8 GT/s QPI, 8MB L3 Cache, 45nm, 130W, EM64T EIST VT XD, Retail
    ASUS, P6X58-E PRO, LGA1366, Intel® X58, 6400 MT/s QPI, DDR3-2200 (O.C.) 48GB /6, PCIe x16 SLI CF /3, SATA 3 Gb/s RAID 5 /6, 6 Gb/s /2, USB 3.0 /2, HDA, BT, GbLAN, FW /2, ATX, Retail
    MUSHKIN, 24GB (6 x 4GB) Blackline PC3-16000 DDR3 2000MHz CL9 (9-11-9-27) 1.65V SDRAM DIMM, Non-ECC
    OCZ, 128GB Synapse Cache SSD w/Dataplex™, MLC SandForce SF-2281, 550/510 MB/s, 2.5-Inch, SATA 6 Gb/s, Retail
    CETON INFINITV quad tuners
    WESTERN DIGITAL, 2 x 2TB WD Caviar® Green™ (WD20EARX), SATA 6 Gb/s, IntelliPower™, 64MB Cache
    RAID, No RAID, Independent HDD Drives
    MSI, N560GTX-Ti Hawk, GeForce® GTX 560 Ti 950MHz, 1GB GDDR5 4200MHz, PCIe x16 SLI, 2x DVI + mini-HDMI, Retail
    HT OMEGA, eClaro Sound Card, 7.1 channels, 24-bit 192KHz, PCIe x1, Full-height/Low-profile, Retail
    ADESSO, Windows 7 / Vista™ Remote Control, IR wireless, USB receiver, Retail
    PIONEER, BDR-206DBK Black 12x/16x/40x BD/DVD/CD Blu-ray Disc™ DVD Burner, SATA, w/o Software, OEM
    MICROSOFT, Windows 7 Professional 64-bit Edition w/ SP1, OEM
    Microsoft entertainment keyboard & mouse 8000

    My issues
    The computer is plugged in to an Anthem AVM30 receiver and the video signal is output to a vidikron projector 720p
    Since the receiver and projectors are a bit older I am using a DVI to hdmi cable from the computer to a converter box and then component cables to the receiver
    The picture from the projector appears off center. When I try to compensate with the projector settings (horizontal alignment...) even at the max setting, the image is still shifted to the left of the screen and I have a black bar to the right of the screen.
    In my system I also have an Oppo BPD95 bluray player and the image is centered just fine...

    Second issue is that I get no image from the Ceton tuner card (only sound)

    Third issue the keyboard / mouse range does not allow me to control the computer (I am about 12 feet away with a thin cabinet door in front of the computer). I do not have the original dongle for the keyboard and mouse. Is it the issue? The one I have is rated for 30 feet. Should I use another keyboard mouse?

    Also since I tweaked all the projector settings back and forth the image from the bluray player appears way dark (beyond adjustments with projector settings). Anything I can do to fix?
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  2. Member
    Join Date: Aug 2006
    Location: United States
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    I know this suggestion is really obvious, but sometimes the obvious gets overlooked. Check the resolution for the video card and make sure it is 720p to match the projector. If it is already 720p, see if you can fine-tune the resolution a little. I have an ATI card and AMD's Vision Engine Control Center allows the horizontal and vertical resolution to be adjusted incrementally for a custom resolution, although it adjusts opposite sides by the same amount. I don't know if NVidia has the same kind of controls, but it wouldn't hurt to look. If that fails to correct the problem, then maybe you need a different converter. When I read user reviews for a couple of different HDMI to composite converters, an off-center picture was a common complaint. Any time a reviewer claimed to have fixed the problem, they did it by buying a different converter.

    Ceton's customer support is supposed to be pretty good. Have you tried contacting them about your problem?
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 26th Dec 2011 at 19:59.
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  3. If your keyboard and mouse work up close, they should work from 12 ft away. Have you tried new batteries? If the dongle is plugged in the back of the case, get a USB extension cable and bring it to the front.

    With the computer plugged into a regular PC monitor, do you get an image from your TV card? If not try downloading the latest drivers and utilities for it. What kind of playback software does it use? It might need a CODEC (though it should have been installed at the same time as the driver).

    The picture might be off center due to the converter box you're using. You don't give any info on it; are there any adjustments on it? Instead of changing the settings on the projector, you should be adjusting at the source. Look at the display properties for the video card, there are settings for picture size and position and you probably have to adjust the refresh rate to match the requirements of the projector.

    Also, you are doing an extra video conversion by going from a DVI-HDMI cable to a component cable. The DVI-I outputs from your video card can output analog, all you need is a DVI to component adaptor (cheap on ebay).

    As for your blueray being too dark, try a factory reset on the player and projector and look for a black level setting in the blueray (might say something about IRE).
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  4. Member
    Join Date: Dec 2011
    Location: Utah
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    Thanks for the help.
    I will try a different component converter box. I just bought the following.
    StarTech.com Composite and S-Video to DVI-D Video Converter with Scaler - 48MB - USB - NTSC, PAL
    It is pretty expensive so I hope it works..

    On the Ceton website I found that the Nvidia graphics card driver may be the cause of having no image. It is apparently a known issues.
    I downloaded the latest driver from the site but during install of the new driver I lost the picture!! I'll have to try to recover using a monitor later on..

    I did try to reset the bluray to factory settings as well as load default settings on the projector but I still have a dark screen...

    I haven't tried anything with the keyboard and mouse yet but I cannot relocate the bluetooth dongle.. It is part of the computer card and is located at the back of the computer.. Is the cabinet door too much for the bluetooth radio? Is there better technology that I should use?

    I'll keep the thread updated with my progress once I ve had the chance to work some more on the computer...

    If you have any more suggestions feel free to post.

    Thanks
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  5. Member dragonkeeper's Avatar
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    For the keyboard issue I would switch to an RF keyboard, trust me this will alleviate many headaches. I've tried many IR keyboards and they all seem to be problematic at anything over 15ft.

    Since the receiver and projectors are a bit older I am using a DVI to hdmi cable from the computer to a converter box and then component cables to the receiver
    An older receiver may have difficulty with HD video signal or the converter box could be causing the shift issue you spoke of, try patching the video signal directly into the projector to see if this goes away. I would but an new video card at lest a 4600 series ATI they are relatively cheap and they allow you to bitstream audio to your receiver via a digital connection. [Note: If you plan to upgrade your receiver to one that handles HD-Audio you will need to upgrade to a ATI 5000 series as the 4000 series is not capable of bitstreaming HD audio)]
    Murphy's law taught me everything I know.
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  6. Member
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    Originally Posted by NoLegalMoves View Post
    Thanks for the help.
    I will try a different component converter box. I just bought the following.
    StarTech.com Composite and S-Video to DVI-D Video Converter with Scaler - 48MB - USB - NTSC, PAL
    It is pretty expensive so I hope it works..
    Thanks
    Video converters tend to be one-way devices. Judging by the description, this Startech.com converter is an analog to digital converter. You need a digital to analog converter (DVI/HDMI to component).

    Another possible option is a VGA to component video converter like this: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10114&cs_id=1011407&p_id=...seq=1&format=2 There also are still a few VGA cards available that can output component video, but they are under-powered compared to what you now have because they use older GPUs. However, both of these are viable options only if you do not need something that can simulate an HDCP compliant path. In that case you will need a DVI/HDMI to component converter that "strips" HDCP.

    DVI and HDMI are completely interchangeable for digital video. The wires in a DVI to HDMI cable go straight from a pin on one end to a pin on the other end. DVI only lacks HDMI's pins for audio, device control, and network connectivity. ...and HDMI lacks the pins that DVI-I uses for carrying a VGA signal.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 27th Dec 2011 at 14:26.
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  7. Member
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    Wow.. bad news... looks like I'll have to return the box..
    Now isn't VGA very limited in resolution? I still need to get to 1080i or 720p. Would that VGa to component adapter work at that resolution?
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  8. Member
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    Originally Posted by NoLegalMoves View Post
    Wow.. bad news... looks like I'll have to return the box..
    Now isn't VGA very limited in resolution? I still need to get to 1080i or 720p. Would that VGa to component adapter work at that resolution?
    I have a 1920x1080 monitor, and VGA can supply its native resolution. I have also used my PC with a 720p TV. So, VGA definitely supports 1920x1080 and 1028x768 as output resolutions.The VGA to component converter I linked to provides 480p, 720p, and 1080i output, controlled by a switch. I think the converter has to generate interlaced video to supply 1080i from a VGA source. PC video is progressive, so 720p might look a bit better than 1080i.

    [Edit]Stictly speaking, I guess the output resolutions that can be supplied by the VGA port on a video card depend on what the card and its drivers support. My on-board video card can definitely supply the resolutions that allow it to be connected with a VGA port on a 1080i/p TV or 720p TV.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 27th Dec 2011 at 15:52. Reason: correct 720p resolution
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  9. Member
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    It looks like it should work. However it is hard to predict whether an individual buyer will be entirely happy with the output from any converter.

    [Edit]You would have to try the converter to know for sure whether it shifts the picture when you use it with your equipment. There doesn't seem to be a way to know the outcome ahead of time.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 27th Dec 2011 at 15:26.
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  10. Member
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    I had a thought about your problem with the Ceton card. If you have only tried it with your projector then the lack of picture might be due to not having a HDMI to component converter like an HDFury that strips HDCP.

    When using a CableCARD tuner, I think that some programming requires HDCP-protected output, so if the path from graphics card to display is not 100% HDCP compliant, you won't see video. Have you tried connecting your HTPC's DVI port to a HDMI port on a HDCP-compliant TV using your DVI to HDMI cable? If you get a picture, then it is likely that the DVI to Component converter does not have the ability to "strip" HDCP. Devices that "strip" HDCP can't be legally sold in the US as they violate both copyright laws and the HDMI license, so getting one requires using an overseas source.
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  11. Usually_quiet is right about the HDCP requirement for the Ceton card, check the minimum system requirements. If you try to hook-up your PC to a monitor through DVI or VGA (with a DVI-VGA adaptor) you most likely won't get a picture. If you try the HDMI connector to an HDMI TV or monitor, then you should get a picture (that's if that Nvidia bug is not the problem). Those kinds of headaches are not unusual when you mix old and new tech. You should do this test to rule out HDCP before spending more money on adapters.

    You don't really need a complicated converter box to get a component output, an adapter cable like this one would do. As far as resolution goes you're best stick to whatever your card can output X 768, progressive scan is more pleasing than a higher resolution interlaced. You'll need to check the projector specs for the refresh rate and use the Nvidia control panel to adjust picture size and centering.
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  12. Member
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    Originally Posted by nic2k4 View Post
    You don't really need a complicated converter box to get a component output, an adapter cable like this one would do. As far as resolution goes you're best stick to whatever your card can output X 768, progressive scan is more pleasing than a higher resolution interlaced. You'll need to check the projector specs for the refresh rate and use the Nvidia control panel to adjust picture size and centering.
    Are you actually using one of those cables successfully with a DVI-I port on an NVidia graphics card? That does not seem possible. Looking at the reviews for such cables, nobody gets them to work with the video output from their computer.

    DVI is digital. Component is analog, How in the heck does one go from DVI digital to analog without employing any electronics? Even when video is output using DVI-I's analog pins, VGA analog video is not the same thing as component analog video. Electronics need to be used to make that conversion as well.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 27th Dec 2011 at 22:09.
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  13. Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    DVI is digital. Component is analog, How in the heck does one go from DVI digital to analog without employing any electronics? Even when video is output using DVI-I's analog pins, VGA analog video is not the same thing as component analog video. Electronics need to be used to make that conversion as well.
    DVI can carry analog video. See DVI-A or DVI-I:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface

    That analog video is usually VGA. But some devices can output component video instead. Check your card's specs if you are considering that route. Because those cables only work with devices that support it.
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  14. Member
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    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    DVI is digital. Component is analog, How in the heck does one go from DVI digital to analog without employing any electronics? Even when video is output using DVI-I's analog pins, VGA analog video is not the same thing as component analog video. Electronics need to be used to make that conversion as well.
    DVI can carry analog video. See DVI-A or DVI-I:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface

    That analog video is usually VGA. But some devices can output component video instead. Check your card's specs if you are considering that route. Because those cables only work with devices that support it.
    I now recall that at one time there were a few ATI or NVidia cards that included small DVI to component adapters but only specific models and specific drivers supported that option. The adapters that came with them would have had proprietary pin-outs. There is no way to tell if the inexpensive DVI to component cables sold online have the right pin-out to use even with those older cards. There are not many current cards that support YPbPr component output from any port, even when the GPU may theoretically have the ability to provide it.

    [Edit]It is only going to get worse. The PC industry is supposedly going to eliminate all video connections able to supply any kind of analog signal within the next few years, and only provide DVI-D, HDMI and Display Port.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 28th Dec 2011 at 01:27.
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  15. Member
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    Ok.. Seems like the Ceton card is working now..However, the new nvidia drivers dont allow me to have any picture with the projector. I have to use a small monitor to use the computer now.
    I will wait for the converter box to arrive and see if it fixes the issue..
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  16. Member
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    Originally Posted by NoLegalMoves View Post
    Ok.. Seems like the Ceton card is working now..However, the new nvidia drivers dont allow me to have any picture with the projector. I have to use a small monitor to use the computer now.
    I will wait for the converter box to arrive and see if it fixes the issue..
    I hope it will, but that now seems unlikely. HDCP is the problem, not your card's drivers. The Ceton card needs an HDCP compliant path to supply video.

    Both DVI and HDMI support HDCP, and your video card is HDCP compliant, but your projector is not HDCP compliant because it uses component video connections. A DVI to component converter that "strips" HDCP can make a device appear to be HDCP compliant even though it isn't, but a DVI (or HDMI) to component converter sold in the US probably doesn't strip HDCP. Those that did (the HDFury line) were removed from sale in the US a couple of years back, and can now only be purchased from an overseas source.
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    I keep forgetting about those.

    Yes, they are supposed to allow devices that require HDCP to work with ones that only accept component video input. A usual, the more expensive model has a higher percentage of satisfied customers.
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  18. Member
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    Ok.. thanks for all the pointers..
    I cancelled my previous order and ordered this.. http://www.amazon.com/ViewHD-Compone...dp/B004F9XVBC/
    I'll receive and test by the end of next week or the following Monday...
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  19. Please let us know how it works out.
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  20. Member
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    Ok guys.. just received the video converter and... it works!!!
    The image is centered!. I also tried the Ceton tuner and no problem there either..

    Now the only thing that spoils the joy a bit is that I still have this dark image issue.. It is not related to the converter because I have this on the bluray (different video source) as well.
    In the past this projector has been fine so I am not sure what happened. the image is dark beyond adjusting brightness contrast or even the gamma on the colors. The projector is a Vidikron Model 30 ET. Anyone has had this issue? Is there a factory reset I can do? Could it be some settings on the receiver (Anthem AVM30)?
    I also noticed a slight distorsion of the top 5% of the image (like the very top of the image is bent towards the right)

    I'll also have to fix the range of keyboard and mouse. I ordered a CLass I bluetooth dongle so hopfully it works better.

    Anyway, thanks to your awesome advice I feel I have made some real progress here.
    Still if you have more help for these remaining issues, I welcome it!
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  21. Originally Posted by NoLegalMoves View Post
    Now the only thing that spoils the joy a bit is that I still have this dark image issue..
    Lamp failing?

    Originally Posted by NoLegalMoves View Post
    I also noticed a slight distorsion of the top 5% of the image (like the very top of the image is bent towards the right)
    Like VHS flagging? From a Blu-ray or broadcast source?
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  22. Member
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    Thanks for your replies
    Ok.. after a few more hours of work and a 6 mile run here is what I found..
    The refresh rate of the pc did not match that of the projector apparently... This caused the image to appear dark.. when I switched to 50Hz the image became normal again...
    For the bluray picture, the issue appears to be different... When I put my bluray player on 720p resolution the image is dark.. When I switch to 456p or 420p the image is normal... Now, since I watch blurays I'd like to keep a higher resolution without the dark image issue... Any ideas?
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  23. Member
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    Originally Posted by NoLegalMoves View Post
    Thanks for your replies
    Ok.. after a few more hours of work and a 6 mile run here is what I found..
    The refresh rate of the pc did not match that of the projector apparently... This caused the image to appear dark.. when I switched to 50Hz the image became normal again...
    For the bluray picture, the issue appears to be different... When I put my bluray player on 720p resolution the image is dark.. When I switch to 456p or 420p the image is normal... Now, since I watch blurays I'd like to keep a higher resolution without the dark image issue... Any ideas?
    That is strange. 50Hz is customary for PAL TVs. 60Hz is normal for NTSC TVs. Did you try 60Hz too?

    456p and 420p don't make sense. Do you mean 576p and 480p?
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  24. Member
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    You're probably right.. I was trying to type this by memory... all I know is the htpc picture is ok and I don't want to touch it anymore

    For the bluray, any idea why a lower resolution causes the image to be brighter? I would like to use the native resolution of the projector(720p). I am using a component connection to the receiver.
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  25. Member
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    Originally Posted by NoLegalMoves View Post
    You're probably right.. I was trying to type this by memory... all I know is the htpc picture is ok and I don't want to touch it anymore

    For the bluray, any idea why a lower resolution causes the image to be brighter? I would like to use the native resolution of the projector(720p). I am using a component connection to the receiver.
    I downloaded the manual for your projector http://www.vidikron.com/images/manuals/v30_manual-v2.pdf.

    Your projector has 2 sets of component inputs. The set immediately below the HDMI input is only for SD (480i/576i) sources. The ones with BNC connectors are for HD sources. Which ones are you using for the Blu-ray player?

    If the PC and Blu-ray player must share a connection, then you need a component video switch. You could also try an HDMI switch instead of a converter so the PC and whatever else you are using with the HDMI port could share that connection.
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  26. Member
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    Wow.. wow ..wow.. Excellent point.. I checked...The installer of the projector connected the receiver with RCA only for SD... And all this time I thought I was getting 720p.. I am surprised how good the picture looked in SD though...
    Now changing the cables will be hard since the cables go in the ceiling...That definitely explains a lot.
    Nice find.. I am thoroughly annoyed with this installer now... He knew I had HD signals coming into the receiver from my Tivo and still did that...But he did the job a couple of years ago and I doubt I can do anything about it now..
    Maybe I should just change my receiver and run a Hdmi cable to the projector huh? More money...
    Thanks a lot for the help... I did not think I could get that much help from this forum.. Awesome guys!
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  27. Member
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    The video and audio for all your devices are connected via the receiver then? I wasn't sure.

    There are simple RCA to BNC adapters available and they are inexpensive. Your local Radio Shack might even have some. Here is one example http://www.amazon.com/BNC-Male-RCA-Female-Connector/dp/B000V1R97U/ref=pd_cp_e_2 I think you need RCA female on one end and BNC male on the other, but check to be certain.
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  28. Member
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    Yes it's they are all connected to the receiver.. Actually I keep calling it a receiver but it's a processor.. Anthem AVM 30.
    I'll check on adapters tomorrow... I was thinking I'd have to buy a long hdmi cable and another DHCP compliant converter box to convert to component. I'm relieved...
    Usually quiet and Jagabo you are life savers!! Are you professionals or just very knowledgeable professionals?

    Now I'll just have to figure out why I can't get the sound of my PC in any other mode than stereo, and find a proper long range wireless keyboard...
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