How to capture signals from japanese laserdisc players?

[babayaga]

Hi!

I'm using a hauppauge pvr-150 and have been happy about it for years, but now i try to capture some video from my japanese laserdisc players (lds9 and cld-r7g), both have shakey pictures when i try to capture them, NO problem on my television set, was told that it most likely is a timing issue and that tvs are much more forgiving in that area. (i capture both vhs and ld USA ntsc signals just fine). I know the Canopus 300 can capture the japanese players, but they are sooo expensive and i wonder if the only reason canopus captures it correctly is because of its built in tbc? anyway, i need a new device and hope someone can give me a tip =)

[themaster1]

Perhaps the drivers (check in your software) are locked onto ntsc-m and can't switch to ntsc-j automatically.
I have never dealt with ntsc-j, i know the frame rate is the same though (29,9 fps interlaced) ; more infos here

[loster]

NTSC-j is the same as NTSC-m except for the black level. The broadcast method is different but that's not relevant for analog capture.

[RWANDREWS]

your problem lies elsewhere. I have captured a japanese LD with my Canopus ADVC-100 without any problems. Framerate is the same, processing is straightforward.

[babayaga]

your problem lies elsewhere. I have captured a japanese LD with my Canopus ADVC-100 without any problems. Framerate is the same, processing is straightforward.

yes, a japanese LD, but with a japanese player?

[babayaga]

NTSC-j is the same as NTSC-m except for the black level. The broadcast method is different but that's not relevant for analog capture.

maybe i wasn't clear enough, the problem is that the japanese laserdisc players have weak video sync, and therfor capture cards like the Hauppauge pvr-150 will have problems getting is stable picture, TVs on the other hand are more forgiving with ntsc than the common capture devices, also, i know the canopus 300 have no issues capping form a LD-S9, and i wonder if it handles the Jap players because of its built in tbc, or if the canopus 110 would work.

[RWANDREWS]

I don't know where you are, but just buying a US LD may be lots cheaper than buying a new capture card/box. You should be able to get one for under $100 easily.

bob A

[jmac698]

You could try passing it through a dvd recorder.. I see panasonic es10 is recommened, for other reasons, because it does a passtrhu TBC, which stablizes signals.

Also some home theatre systems do this too.

[edDV]

A Japanese LD player should be the same as a US model except it outputs black at 0 IRE and white at 100 IRE. That would result in crushed blacks. You can correct black to 7.5 IRE in the Hauppauge WinTV Brightness/Contrast settings (under Color menu).

If the shaky pictures only happen with that one disc, it could be macrovision or some other kind of DRM. Try recordeing to a VHS deck and see if the same thing happens. If so it is copy protection.

[babayaga]

I don't know where you are, but just buying a US LD may be lots cheaper than buying a new capture card/box. You should be able to get one for under $100 easily.

bob A

not in this case, hehe. Im using a pioneer ld-s9, which is a lot better than the players released in the states =)

[RWANDREWS]

The problem CANNOT be Macrovision. LDs are an analog format & do NOT have copy protection systems. The Canopus ADVC-100/110 has a dip swtich to change the 0 IRE to a NTSC american black setting.

[jagabo]

The problem CANNOT be Macrovision. LDs are an analog format & do NOT have copy protection systems.

Laserdiscs may not have had Macrovision -- but it wasn't because they were analog. VHS was analog and had Macrovision.

[RWANDREWS]

My statement was imprecise & I can appreciate the confusion it caused. Laserdiscs do NOT have a copy protection scheme. As they are analog, they cannot use CSS, DRM or other types of copy protections as on a DVD, or CD. I supposed they COULD use macrovision, but they do not. At any rate, this is not the cause of the problem the poster is having, IMO.

[Cornucopia]

In '91, Macrovision DID create a scrambling/encryption system for LD (called "VES_LD"), so it's possible that LD discs could have been mastered which included it. Of course, it's ANALOG, and isn't supposed to affect the players or TVs but affect the VCRs/DVRs.

Were any produced? Nobody knows.

Does it matter? Not if you already have a good TBC.
Probably not otherwise either, just because, by '91 it would be very unlikely for the Hollywood producers to change their way of making LD discs (it was a static or declining market by then).

I tend to agree with RWANDREWS that this is probably not the cause of the OP's current problem. Sounds like past transfers worked OK, but current ones are all a problem - machine aging/deterioration, IMO. That would account for the "shakey" results.

If repairs are in order but not going to happen anytime soon, or if it truly does have Macrovision, a TBC purchase would probably be a good idea. Certainly wouldn't hurt and it's always a good device to have lying around, even if it's not often in use.

Scott

[edDV]

Laserdisc players have minimal timebase errors compared to VHS. I've captured my Laserdisc collection with a Canopus ADVC-100 without issue but that was several years ago. I don't recall if I ran into a Macrovision issue*. But as I said above, try test recording with a vcr to determine if it is a Macrovision issue or not.

Next try different discs to see if some play better than others. It is unlikely that two LD players would go bad at the same time. That points to the capture card. Confirm the drivers are current. Try to capture some VHS. See if that works. If the problem is still there you will need to try a different capture card.


* I've got an early model ADVC-100 that can pass Macrovision. Models after 2004 would not.

[NJRoadfan]

Another option is to pass the video through a full frame TBC like the AVT-8710 or Datavideo TBC-1000, both will generate a "clean" sync signal at the proper levels. Does the problem happen with both the composite and S-Video out jacks?

[edDV]

OK, Friday and I like closure.

I fired up my antique Sony MDP-333 Laserdisc player to do some tests. The door loading mechanism needed some lube assist but the discs played fine.

I tried some CLV and CAV discs and saw no evidence of Macrovision. I went for the most likely discs to have copy protection.

Hitchcock's Vertigo CLV (the remastered 2.1 THX version*)

Disney's Fantasia (Deluxe CAV 1991 box set)

While at it I confirmed once again that S-Video is awful from 90's Laserdisc players. Composite into the ADVC or 3D comb filter TV or 3D comb filter ATI 650 got very good results considering this was composite NTSC.

I'll try some more discs and let you know.


PS: Further tests show the 3D comb filters reduce chroma noise almost to DVD levels. Amazing difference on Fantasia which has hot chroma. Now I need to recopy all these discs. I'm ordering the DVD Fantasia version on Netflix to compare.


* I went to the remaster launch event in SF back then.

[babayaga]

OK, Friday and I like closure.


While at it I confirmed once again that S-Video is awful from 90's Laserdisc players. Composite into the ADVC or 3D comb filter TV or 3D comb filter ATI 650 got very good results considering this was composite NTSC.

indeed, you really need a high-end model from japan to really use the svideo output. the pioneer cld-r7g, ld-s9, cld-97/99(US) and hld-x9/x0 is really the only ones that have reasonable y/c separation =)

[edDV]

OK, Friday and I like closure.


While at it I confirmed once again that S-Video is awful from 90's Laserdisc players. Composite into the ADVC or 3D comb filter TV or 3D comb filter ATI 650 got very good results considering this was composite NTSC.

indeed, you really need a high-end model from japan to really use the svideo output. the pioneer cld-r7g, ld-s9, cld-97/99(US) and hld-x9/x0 is really the only ones that have reasonable y/c separation =)

But these modern 3D comb filters probably do a better job. Laserdisc is native composite.

[babayaga]

OK, Friday and I like closure.


While at it I confirmed once again that S-Video is awful from 90's Laserdisc players. Composite into the ADVC or 3D comb filter TV or 3D comb filter ATI 650 got very good results considering this was composite NTSC.

indeed, you really need a high-end model from japan to really use the svideo output. the pioneer cld-r7g, ld-s9, cld-97/99(US) and hld-x9/x0 is really the only ones that have reasonable y/c separation =)

But these modern 3D comb filters probably do a better job. Laserdisc is native composite.

yea, you're right about that =) but the advc 300 is too expensive for me, so might gonna try to buy a full field tbc like the ones suggested earlier in this thread! my PAL svhs doesn't have full field tbc (ag4700) so it might help that player too!

[babayaga]

Another option is to pass the video through a full frame TBC like the AVT-8710 or Datavideo TBC-1000, both will generate a "clean" sync signal at the proper levels. Does the problem happen with both the composite and S-Video out jacks?

yea, it happens on both composite and s-video on the japanese players, my american svhs and ld players works fine, so I might just end up buying one of those you suggested, do you know which is better of them? =)