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  1. Member
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    After I've read the guide http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/254043-Guide-for-extracting-menus-for-editing-and-r...g-edited-menus , I still can't find what I'm looking for, or maybe I'm looking over it...

    I have 3 Episode DVD's of 1 Season, and they are made by someone, who made this ugly menu with prolly ConvertXtoDVD.

    Since I love the way Nero Vision's menu creator works, I want to make a new menu myself.
    I've done this before, when making a 2-DVD from a serie, which was only available in XViD-AVI, since it's only been aired on TV. This way pretty easy... Just importing the AVI's into Nero Vision, click next and create your menu, and 2-pass encoding them.

    Now I don't wanna loose any quality of the DVD's, so I'm not gonna follow the same way (equals a re-encode).

    How can I delete just the menu, make a new one with Nero Vision, without re-encoding the VOB-files?

    Looking forward for suggestions!

    Note: I've done some research, and it turns out I could use VOB2MPG and then re-import the MPEG-files into Nero, without quality-loss. Then again, I want to keep the subtitles, so that's not an option.
    Last edited by snowseals; 24th Aug 2011 at 09:56.
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  2. Originally Posted by snowseals View Post
    How can I delete just the menu, make a new one with Nero Vision, without re-encoding the VOB-files?
    Use some sort of a short 'dummy' video, the AVI you mentioned, or some real short DVD video. I usually use 5 minute long DVD music videos for this. Create the menus. Just make sure you wind up with the same number of chapters as in the video you really want. For episodic DVDs, import the same short video three times. When all done do a 'Replace VTST Titles' using PGCEdit and replace the 'dummy' video(s) with the 'real' video(s).

    The 'real' video has to be its own separate DVD. You won't be replacing the VOBs, but the IFOs. If necessary, demux the 'real' video using PGCDemux, and remux the audio, video, subs, and chapters (the celltimes.txt PGCDemux gives you) using Muxman to create a menuless DVD.

    And if this Nero Vision were a proper authoring program, it wouldn't reencode already DVD compliant audio and video. Are you sure it does? How about if you demux the audio, video, subs, and chapters using PGCDemux and then feed the various pieces into this Nero program? I don't know what format subs it takes. PGCDemux gives them to you in SUP format. They can be instantly converted to VobSubs (IDX/SUB) format using SubtitleCreator.

    Then again, I want to keep the subtitles, so that's not an option.
    Why not? Just extract the subs from the DVD. It's quite easy.
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  3. Member
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    Thanks for your reply.

    U were right about Nero Vision; it does actually is smart enough to recognise proper material so it won't encode the dvd again (except ofcoz the new menu I created).

    Then again, I'm still having trouble with keeping the Subtitles.
    There's no way to import subs into Nero Vision... There is a way tho, by using Nero Recode, but as the name already suggests, it does a Recode/Encoding again, and I assume it'll Encode the subs into the movies itself, instead of something u can tick on/off.

    I did found a work-around tho, on this same forum here: http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/274755-Have-your-NERO-sub-it-too-add-subs-to-episod...s-with-DVD-lab

    Problem is... When I Rip/Extract the subs from the original DVD to .SUB, .IDX files (using VobSub or Imtoo DVD Subtitle Ripper) and then import them into DVD-lab Pro or Subtitle Creator 2, they give me an error:
    "Error reading subtitle number 1. Index was outside the bounds of the array".

    What am I doing wrong? Or... How to solve this issue?
    Thanks once again in advance!
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  4. I don't use DVDLab so I can't help. Maybe someone else can. But apparently there's something wrong with them if even SubtitleCreator won't open them. Sometimes they can be fixed by opening and then immediately saving them using SubResynch which is included in the VobSub package. Or maybe you did something wrong in extracting them. You might try my earlier suggestion of extracting the SUP files using PGCDemux followed by converting them to VobSub using SubtitleCreator.

    There is a workaround and that's to make the DVD without subs and then add them in afterwards. This will involve extracting the original subs using PGCDemux so you get them in SUP format. Follow Baldrick's Method 2 in this guide. You'll have to read down to learn how to 'turn on' the subs after sticking the subbed version into your DVDLab subless version:

    http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/277950-How-to-add-new-subtitles-to-an-existing-DVD

    Since you'll be getting the subs from PGCDemux, you can skip part of the guide. Demux (PGCDemux), reauthor (Muxman), add back original menus (VobBlanker), update the IFOs to reflect the new subs:

    http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/277950-How-to-add-new-subtitles-to-an-existing-DVD?...=1#post1685800
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  5. Member
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    Okies, I did what u suggested...
    Using PgcDemux to extract the subtitles to a .SUP file.
    Loaded it into Subtitle Creator to Convert it to .IDX file (Tools -> Manipulate SUB or Vobsub file) -> Open Sub -> Opened the .SUP file and the titles appear...
    Then hitted Save Sub -> saving as Vobfiles (.IDX)

    However, I can't open a .IDX file in DVD-lab Pro... sighs.
    I could try to use Resub tool of VobSub and convert it into an SRT file, but isn't that a lil' too much?

    I mean, how complex can it be?
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  6. Like I said, I don't use DVDLab and don't know which subtitle formats it supports. If it says it accepts SUB files, you have to understand that there are 2 different kinds of SUB files, the text ones and the graphic based ones (the IDX/SUB VobSubs). Maybe it accepts only the text based ones.

    I mean, how complex can it be?
    Well, maybe you're trying to fit a round peg into a square hole. If DVDLab only accepts text based subs (requiring an OCR), there are always other authoring programs. Or go ahead and make the DVD without subs in DVDLab if you're 'married' to it, then make another menuless DVD (or three, since it's episodic) with Muxman, adding in the SUP subtitles. Then later on replace the subless titles with the subbed ones using File->Replace VTST Titles in PGCEdit. You'll still have to follow the instructions about 'turning them on'. And you'll have to 'fix' the colors. Both are easy.
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  7. Member
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    Ok, here's what I did: uninstalled DVD-lab Pro in the 1st place

    1) Now I have demuxed the original DVD incl. subpics with PgcDemux, Mode VOB-id.
    2a) I open up the video of the 4 episodes into Muxman (.m2v)
    2b) I open up the audio of the 4 episodes into Muxman (.ac3)
    2c) I try to include all the SUPs I've converted from PgcDemux's output -> converted it with Subtitle Creator to get the right color. It gives me a warning in Muxman: Stream 1 has no modes selected. ...Any idea?

    And, it seems I can only add 1 SUP file in Muxman. Instead of adding more, like u can with video & audio.

    Then I Hit Start.
    When all is processed, and load up the VIDEO_TS.IFO into VLC, I can activate the subtitle, and see it in sync.
    However the subs are still in wrong blue/red colors?

    Kinda confused here.. U said adding SUP subtitles with Muxman, then later on replace the subless titles with the subbed ones using PGCEdit? Or is that the case when I would use DVD-lab in the first place?

    Thanks for your tremendeous support!
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  8. With 16:9 video you have to add the subs twice for Muxman, once for Wide and again for LB. That will get rid of the warnings. Add them once and hit 'Wide'. Advance the counter to '2' and add them again and then hit 'LB'. That will get rid of the warnings But, as you also discovered, even with that warning you're OK with just the one subtitle language. You might run into trouble with more than one language.

    I mentioned the colors and 'turning on' the subs. That can also be done in PGCEdit. The link two posts up explains how to 'turn them on'. The colors can also be fixed using DVDSubEdit, There's even a guide for that:

    http://download.videohelp.com/DVDSubEdit/Guides/ChangingColors/Guide.htm
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  9. Member
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    Ahh okies, getting there now, I feel it

    Then again, I have 4 episodes on 1 DVD, so 4 SUP's aswell.
    It's just one language, but 4 episodes with 4 sub-files.

    How can I import/tell MuxMan to add Sub 1 to VTS_01 , Sub 2 to VTS_02, etc.?

    See picture below: I put the subtitles on different streams/tracks... Not sure that's the way to go tho

    Name:  MuxMan_Subtitles.png
Views: 103
Size:  16.0 KB

    Edit: Just found out what it does... And it puts the subtitles on several tracks, which isn't what I want ofcoz.

    I just want 1 subtitle for 1 episode...


    Edit 2: Still having weird colors, altho I changed the colors with Subtitle Creator. I just used DVDSubEdit and made some changes to the color-scheme, using the guide u mentioned. Will let u know if it's solves the color-issue...
    Last edited by snowseals; 25th Aug 2011 at 13:49.
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  10. Member
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    Edit 3: It seems MuxMan is crashing every time, So I can't get a full output. Argh.
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  11. Member
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    I downloaded a different version, Muxman 1.2.3 and it allows me to add multiple Subitles... hooray!

    Then again, the output of the video and audio is out of sync with this one.

    Which version do u use?
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  12. I thought you said you had 4 episodes? Are they all joined together in the same VTS and same Title in the source DVD? I don't think so. Not if you extracted 4 different SUP files from it. Yes, you loaded them OK, if you had 4 different languages.

    So, run Muxman 4 different times, once for each episode. Don't try and load all four M2Vs and all 4 audio files, unless you're purposely trying to join them all into one big file. And if so, you'll have to join the subs into one big file also, outside of Muxman, and that's no fun.

    And don't forget to load the Celltimes.txt file for each episode. You load it in File->Import Chapter. The way you've set it up, you've lost all your chapters.

    Use the newest version of Muxman. When there are problems with it, you can check the root of the C drive for the Muxman log which may throw some light on what went wrong.
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  13. Member
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    Okies, so far so (not so) good, then again, we're getting closer

    I did what u mention; outputting them thru Muxman incl. chapters one by one, in different folders.
    For some reason, Muxman takes the piss, when it's at 90% (just before the green bar should go into purple), while working on the 1st episode of the DVD.
    The other 3 it does well, without hanging... Any idea what might causing this? in the LOG-file I don't see any errors.
    Muxman just hangs.

    So now I got the episodes done (3 outta 4), and they play smooth in VLC, however ... I still have blue/redish subtitles, altho I changed the color-schemes in DVDSubEdit to Black/whitish. Am I overlooking something?
    I just looked at the subtitles when they were loaded in DVDSubEdit, and if they looked different than Black/White I made a change in the color-scheme, and Hit Apply to all, and crop background, and hit Save...

    To look at it at a bigger picture, assuming the above are just getting solved with a little of your wisdom , what's the very next step? My goal is to achieve those new episodes incl. subtitles on a DVD with my Nero menu.
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  14. First, don't worry about the final colors until after you've added the episodes back to the original DVD and have made the final DVD. Then you can fix them all at once. The colors are the least of your worries.

    I have no idea why Muxman hangs for only the first episode. It's never hung on me before. I assume you're waiting a long enough time for it to finish, after it seems to hang. 30 seconds or so? Can you tell if it's still working? Like, is the hard drive light on the computer still blinking? Sometimes it just seems to stall but it's still chugging away.

    Try the first one again and be sure to wait long enough. You can't tell by just watching the progress bar. If you wait and it never finishes, post the log here. You can upload it here if you like.

    If worse comes to worst, use IFOEdit to author that first episode. It's not as good as Muxman, but it is more forgiving and takes the assets in the same formats (M2V, AC3, SUP, Celltimes.txt). Hit DVD Author->Author New DVD at the top.
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  15. Member
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    I let Muxman 0.16.8 do it's thing this night, and just woke up, to see the program is Not Responding.
    I close the app, and see it changed the LOG-file to now, time-wise.
    Here's the content:

    MuxMan version 0.16.8
    Accepted audio C:\Users\Gebruiker\Desktop\PgcDemux\DVD 1\1\AudioFile_80.ac3
    Opened sub 1 file C:\Users\Gebruiker\Desktop\PgcDemux\DVD 1\1 subtitle\Subpictures_20.sup.
    Opened sub 1 file C:\Users\Gebruiker\Desktop\PgcDemux\DVD 1\1 subtitle\Subpictures_20.sup.

    02:45:56 Begin multiplex VTS01.
    Title Segment List
    Segment_1
    Encoded stream 20 is script stream 1.
    Maximum audio duration 86956 fields.
    Starting scene Segment_1_scn1 at 00:00:00:00

    02:46:07 Begin multiplex VTS01.
    Title Segment List
    Segment_1
    Encoded stream 21 is script stream 1.
    Maximum audio duration 86956 fields.
    Starting scene Segment_1_scn1 at 00:00:00:00
    Any possibility it's becoz I've updated K-Lite Codec Pack to Full , latest version 7.6.0 in the meantime?
    Or becoz I'm putting in the altered SUP from DVDSubEdit?
    Those are the 2 differences, as far I'm aware of.

    What I'll try to do is, uninstall K-Lite Codec Pack, don't alter the SUP with DVDSubEdit and just take the SUP which is extracted by PgcDemux, and try again...
    I'll let u know how that works out.
    Otherwise, I'll try IFOEdit.

    Thanks once again for your guidance!
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  16. I doubt it's a codec pack responsible, but I have no idea what is the problem. Yes, go ahead and try IFOEdit on that first episode.
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  17. Member
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    Okies did what I suggested, uninstalled some software, and PgcDemuxed Episode 1 again, runned Muxman over it... Worked!

    So now I got 4 folders with content made by MuxMan, looking each like this:
    VIDEO_TS.BUP
    VIDEO_TS.IFO
    VTS_01_0.BUP
    VTS_01_0.IFO
    VTS_01_1.VOB

    Where to go from here...? I'm a little lost in the bigger picture, but glad it worked out so far
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  18. OK, now you're getting somewhere. Good going. Go back to the guide,. The next step is to replace the original episodes without subtitles with the new episodes with subtitles. You use VobBlanker for this. This is the guide:

    http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/277950-How-to-add-new-subtitles-to-an-existing-DVD

    Scroll down to Method 2 and (Optional) Add back the original menus.

    But instead of replacing a single movie, you're replacing four individual episodes. And after that, the link about updating the IFO files.
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  19. Member
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    W00t! Finished and all is working like I want it!
    You're the best Manono. Thanks for supporting me in this journey.

    Here's a quick summary where it boils down to, incl. how much time it costs, as a reference for other people...

    00) Nero Vision:
    3 mins - Importing Original DVD, deleting menu's / chapters
    5 mins - Done making menu: with background pic, add music, titles per episode, correct linking, setting up from where to play preview
    7 mins - Transcoding menu + adding episodes
    15 mins in total

    01) PgcDemux:
    2,5 mins - extract all content from DVD to separate streams: video, audio, subpics, chapter-info per Episode.

    02) Muxman:
    6,5 mins - join the streams together with new subtitles if prefered.
    Note: one by one episode output is preferable.
    Note 2: Remember to load in the SUP twice: one straight upfront, one for LB/Wide.

    03) VobBlanker:
    3,5 mins - replace the original DVD .IFO's with the Muxman's output.

    04) PgcEdit:
    1,5 min - turn subtitles on/change the color-scheme of VobBlanker's output.

    Done!

    Process time in total per DVD: 29 minutes


    Eventually burn with Nero Burning ROM:
    4:30 mins - Burning PgcEdit's output to DVD.

    Based on:
    Windows 7 32-bit running on a Intel Duo-Core 2 E600 2.40ghz / 2gb RAM / 120gb 5400rpm / Ati Radeon HD 3870 512mb
    Last edited by snowseals; 26th Aug 2011 at 11:18.
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  20. Member
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    Ok, the above is based on an already right sliced-per-episode based DVD....

    Now I come across a different Episode-DVD, which only has one VTS_01.IFO file... (and 2 different languages in subtitles for each episode)
    I could extract this baby with PgcDemux and then getting the Titles out one by one, with MuxMan, but is there a quicker work-around?

    Otherwise I'd be ending up doing the following:
    1) Extracting the Episode DVD with PgcDemux
    2) Joining the titles one by one with MuxMan
    3) Importing the result into Nero making a new menu and transcoding it
    4) Extracting these results again with PgcDemux
    5) Joining the titles one by one again with Muxman

    ...Seems a lil' time-robbing, if I'd follow this path. Do you know a better/quicker solution on this?
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  21. It depends on whether or not there's only one title in the VTS, meaning everything is all joined together and all four episodes should be treated as a giant single episode. Or if there are four different titles in that VTS. In that case you do as before, extract each episode separately to its own folder. PGCDemux, PGCEdit, VobBlanker, DVDDecrypter, or other programs can tell you if there's one title or four in that VTS.

    Actually, there may even be five titles, if there's a 'Play All' button in the menu. The fifth one won't have any size. VobBlanker can show you which title(s) have size.

    And if these things are retail DVDs, why are you even making new menus? Unless this is garbage you downloaded from somewhere, you can use the menus they came with. If you just want to lower the size for burning to a single DVDR, for quick-and-dirty use DVDShrink. For better quality use DVD-Rebuilder.

    And if you do this sort of thing frequently, it might be in your best interests to teach yourself an authoring program that allows for subtitle import. Not too many people around here use Nero for much of anything - not for authoring, not for burning to disc.
    Last edited by manono; 26th Aug 2011 at 23:05.
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  22. Member
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    Originally Posted by manono View Post
    It depends on whether or not there's only one title in the VTS, meaning everything is all joined together and all four episodes should be treated as a giant single episode. Or if there are four different titles in that VTS. In that case you do as before, extract each episode separately to its own folder. PGCDemux, PGCEdit, VobBlanker, DVDDecrypter, or other programs can tell you if there's one title or four in that VTS.
    I used PgcDemux and it turns out, there are 3 titles in this VTS, each round 'bout 50 mins per episode.
    So I do actually have to PgcDemux it, then one-by-one feed it to Muxman - twice - as I stated above?

    Originally Posted by manono View Post
    And if these things are retail DVDs, why are you even making new menus? Unless this is garbage you downloaded from somewhere, you can use the menus they came with. If you just want to lower the size for burning to a single DVDR, for quick-and-dirty use DVDShrink. For better quality use DVD-Rebuilder.
    Those are indeed downloaded from the net, and most are pretty ugly menu-wise
    Hence I want my own menu innit... Altho, when I compare my Nero builded menu, and compare it with retail DVD's <- those look way more cripsy. It's not so much about the fancy transitions, but actually the quality of the images/menu/preview movies/text itself.

    Here's what I do: I get myself the highest quality cover or poster from the net of the serie, put it in a 1920x1080 24-bit 300dpi (if possible) image and save it as .BMP. I load that into Nero's menu-maker.
    I like Nero's menu-maker, coz it's pretty straight forward. But quality seems to lack in the output, since my source is proper.. right?
    Which menu-maker do u recommend to get quality menu's?

    For retail DVD's based on DVD-9, converting them to DVD-5, I indeed use DVD-Rebuilder together with ProCoder 3.
    Takes about 6/7 hours, but it's worth it, compared to the smuck DVDShrink delivers.

    Originally Posted by manono View Post
    And if you do this sort of thing frequently, it might be in your best interests to teach yourself an authoring program that allows for subtitle import. Not too many people around her use Nero for much of anything - not for authoring, not for burning to disc.
    I have to say, I only like the menu-builder and use Nero for burning media.
    But then again, I get the feeling, there is plenty of better software out there.
    I mean, building the menu's for 5 dvd's, let's Nero Vision crash 3 outta 5 lol. Luckily it asks to save your project right before it crashes totally.

    I'm starting to like this coz i make so much progress, and again, thanks to all your help!

    I'm actually thinking about downloading HD-TV episodes and making my own custom DVD's, with subtitles from the net, so I have control over the source quality-wise.
    I mean, the one custom Episode-DVD I tested this all with, was only 630mb per 30 mins episode. What kinda crap is that? lol
    Which software and guides do u recommend? Since I take your advice in, and I'm willing to look further than Nero.
    Last edited by snowseals; 26th Aug 2011 at 20:55.
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  23. For commercial and reasonably priced authoring programs, many use either DVDLab (Pro) or TMPGEnc Authoring Works. For free there are three; DVD Styler, GUI4DVDAuthor, and DVDAuthorGUI. When making menus I use DVDAuthorGUI. But I (and many others) make my own menu backgrounds, either static or with motion, and don't rely on templates or ready-made menus.

    So I do actually have to PgcDemux it, then one-by-one feed it to Muxman - twice - as I stated above?
    As long as you're married to an authoring program that doesn't support subtitles at all, and if you want subs, I don't see any alternative.
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