Done capturing my VHS, what now?

[Akerhage]

Okay, I have captured all the VHS now and I want to start making them smaller. Because the size is to big for the now. They are converted to MPG, 720x576. I have some problems I want to fix first. The sound is before the video after a while in all the movies. So I want to fix that. Should I do that before or after I have converted them. I think I want to make them Xvid. I am planning on editing all files as well. To make 1 or 2 movies with the best. Because much of the captured things are rubbish, so really dont need that. Is this also something I should do before making them to xvid?

Have seen that virtualdub is a good program to fix sound etc, maybe put some more colors and sharpening a bit?

Can anyone please explain at what steps I should proceed. Now when you know what my project look likes.
I have pinnacle studio aswell, maybe thats a good editing program (transitions, texts, effects into videos)

Thanks! =)

[Akerhage]

Okay, I have read all over internet now, but cant figure out what to do. Have dowloaded virtualdub, avidemux, wavelab...I am trying to sync the audio but dont get what to do. Have tryed to export the audio to a wav-file and open that one in wavelab. That is done without problem. But I dont get how to change the time of the soundclip to match the videoclip. I have looked into the file information in avidemux and for example the video is 1:10:14:080 and the audio is 1:10:13:971. Have then divided the video with sound (first counted seconds) and come out with an offset. (0.025866). So I am guessing that I should make the audiofile a little longer. 0,025866% longer?.
Can someone tell me if I am thinking right or if its a easyer way to sync audio with video??

[DB83]

Vdub is a video processor so I do not believe it can fix audio lag. Also, Vdub can not process Mpeg2 video - you would need Vdubmod for that. Someone may be able to suggest an Avisynth script to attempt this.

However, any script will set a constant delay and it may well be that the lag has a variable delay.

IIRC you said you had Ulead? That comes with a video editor and, depending on the version, it is possible to split the audio from the video and move one or the other on the timeline in an attempt to fix this. Purely trial and error and it could take a long time.

Ulead can also do basic video editing of mpeg video and has some video filiters.

You should do all the adjustments BEFORE any ferther reduction in video size which will increase the compression. Also be aware that once you have done that conversion to xVID you can not recover the original quality. You may not need that now but later on you could regret not backing up the original captures.

I have no knowledge of pinnacle products so can not pass on any opinion of their capabilities.

[Akerhage]

Thanks for the answer, going to try ulead. I have a Vdubmod so I can open the mpeg2files in there. But when I have done all the editing in ulead, what should I make the files in, is it possible to make them to Divx? I am going to keep all my originals, but want smaller sizes with good quality to share easy with my family.
So if Im correct I should do all the audiosyncing, all the editing (transition, text apperarings, clipping etc )before I start making a xvid?
Because I have now maybe 50+ clips here that are from 20mins - 2hours, I am going to cut of certain scenes and throw away unneccesasry scenes aswell. This I should do before saving them as anything else? Maybe pinnacle is a better choise then, but maybe the quality is the same regardless of software?

[DB83]

Now read your second post. That difference is miniscule and has no relevance to the audio delay.

Your third post:

Like I originally said, ALL editing should be done BEFORE conversion. It will be much harder to edit higher compressed video eg xVID.

Ulead can create an xVID from the program but you will probably get better quality by doing a dub of the Mpeg2 files back to another Mpeg2 file and use another program maybe AutoGK to make the xVID.

Quality is NOT the same regardless of software.

[Akerhage]

The second post was only an exempel having sounddelays that are out of sync for maybe 3-4 seconds, and that are annoying to watch. So dont know why the programs say its just a couple of ms wrong when the sound is more delayed then that...

[DB83]

Because, as I stated, that example has NOTHING to do with the audio lag - and if your audio is 3 seconds before or after the video then a few milli-seconds is neither here or there. Your audio track is already muxed to the video track. The delay is already built in to that.

[Akerhage]

Okay, thanks for that answer. But what do you mean by "doing a dub of the mpeg2 files". If I do edit the captured content in ulead, can I save them uncompressed first and then make the a xvid doing it in autoGK? If you just can explain in what order.
ex:
1. Make a video in ulead
2. Save it as "...."
3. Open that file in AutoGK
4. Save the file to "xvid"
5. Done

[DB83]

1. Load Video in to Ulead
2. Fix/Edit it
3. Create Video in Ulead - use settings as first video file - saves a Mpeg2 video with same properties as the captured file
4. Load Video in auotGK
5. Create xVID.

Now the purists on here will now scream since you are creating another Mpeg2 file. The reason is because the editing/creation is resulting in a loss of quality - it may not be noticable to you and, indeed, you may not worry about that. If you were worried about quality then, with respect, you would not be using an easycap.

[Akerhage]

Thank you!
I will try doing that. And you have right, now when have tested easycap I would rather change method. But I dont know this kind of things, its new to me. So I have to do the best of the situation. I think first I am going to try doing the same but in pinnacle, seems to be much more options there when editing the movie, and I probably can save the mpeg2file in the same properties there as well.
I really appriciate your helping here. The same one that helped me in my other thread! Very kind of you!

[Nelson37]

I would do it a little differently.

Cut the clips in a simple editor, MPEG2CUT2, which will NOT re-encode or degrade quality. VERY IMPORTANT that you make your cuts "wide" by several seconds to allow for fixing the audio. Smaller files will edit faster and easier.

Normally I would fix the audio first, but ASSuming these VHS captures are of multiple clips, and also ASSuming that you will be essentially editing these clips back to individual files, and from your minimal description of the audio issue making an educated guess that the audio problem is unique within individual clips, I would go this way. Best would be to find the point the de-synch starts, then determine if it is constant from that point or gradually changing. The clips BEFORE this point need to be handled differently than the clips AFTER this point.

IF you can find that, then cut the before and after. There may be multiple such points.

[jagabo]

Vdub is a video processor so I do not believe it can fix audio lag.

Actually, VirtualDub can adjust the audio length with it's advanced audio filtering. It can also shift the audio with the muxing options.

[DB83]

Vdub is a video processor so I do not believe it can fix audio lag.

Actually, VirtualDub can adjust the audio length with it's advanced audio filtering. It can also shift the audio with the muxing options.

With a Mpeg2 source ?

[jagabo]

Vdub is a video processor so I do not believe it can fix audio lag.

Actually, VirtualDub can adjust the audio length with it's advanced audio filtering. It can also shift the audio with the muxing options.

With a Mpeg2 source ?

Yes. But you will end up reencoding the video. I was just pointing out the ability, not really suggesting its use in this case.

[Akerhage]

It seems that the audio delay is only when using ulead. When capturing the audio is out of sync. But playing the final files in another mediaplayer seems to solve it. So the delay is maybe just seen when the actual recording is made. But the final product seems to be fine. (after hours of researching I found this)..

so now with the audio in sync, there is just the editing part that should be make. Is the the same "rules" for me now, considering that the audio is fine? I am thinking on editing the first "movie project" in pinnacle. This will be just cutting and edit all the captured files, and maybe just insert some small textareas and transitions between the clips.

I would like to try out fixing audio noise, videoimprovement etc. Should this be done later on when I have finish my editing. Or is it options to do this in pinnacle as well?

I am going to save my pinnacle project as mpeg2 again with same properties in pinnacle, so maybe I can use virtualdub and filters in there to make the improvements?

[Akerhage]

I am now done with the editing of the first movie. It is 1h 30min, so I have nailed it down from 6-7h to this. Took some time, but finally done.
In "make movie" there is alot of alternativs. I got the advice to not compress it here. Because I should use another AutoGK. So is it correct to choose filetype "mpeg-2" and preset "custom" --> compression "PCM" instead of "MP2" and "stereo" "48kHz", Resolution "DVD compatible" and Data rate 8200kbits/sec. Have bitrate on "variable"
With this option the movie takes 6gb, the sound is not inside the movie. it creates separate soundfiles, 3 of them called"filename.wav", "filename_1.wav" and "filename_2.wav"...they are 990mb, and 495mb x2. Assuming this is correct, should I now fix audionoise and video? thanks!

[DB83]

The only scenario I can see if you have 3 audio files is when you also have 3 associated video files.

Many editors create demuxed files - seperate video and audio - for Mpeg2 since the normal next step is to import these in to a dvd authoring program. But if you are to import your edited video into autoGK then the video and audio MUST be muxed in one file, autoGK can not read a separate audio file.

There should be an option in Pinnacle to do this but, as I said earlier, I have no knowledge of this program. My suggestion for using Ulead was based on its simplicity and that it does create muxed files.

I am glad to read that you have appeared to have solved the audio issue. The program may be at fault but you also did not state the audio compression etc of the captures.

If you wish to continue with Pinnacle then I would suggest that you start another topic with a more specific title so that users of these programs are more likely to see it than come across this more general topic.

[Akerhage]

Thanks! No, only one video and 3 seperate audiofiles. But I will see if I can change it in pinnacle first. So that the video and audio is attached to eachother. I think that that may be done if I dont choose PCM in audio.

But the video is the right one to choose, right? I dont loose quality if making it to mpeg2?

Can you please explain just my next steps with AutoGK. Considering that I will be able to make the sound and video attached.

I havent done any improvements in the videos, so maybe I should do that before compressing to xvid in autogk, or can I make theese changes in that program as well?

[DB83]

I have already said, and more than once, ALL editing/improvement BEFORE you compress.

autoGK only does one thing and that is compress a Mpeg2 source or a dvd source to either xVID or Divx - you would select xVID unless you already have paid for the Divx encoder (xVID is free)

But what the program does do in the compression is analyse the video and apply the filters it considers fit to. It is called 'auto' since it is basically a one-click solution to its big-brother GordianKnot. Hence the GK.

There is basically little to learn. You set the compression either applying a fixed setting of 700mb - 700mb for a 90 minute video will give quite a reasonable quality or select your own target size. There is also a 1400mb setting. But you will need to experiment. You also set the video frame size and choose an audio compression.

There are also a raft of hidden options - just read the documentation of how to access these.

But that 3 audio files makes no sense whatsoever. Run them through mediainfo and report back what that program tells.

[Akerhage]

Sorry for posting dumb questions, but this isnt really something I am used to do, and it is a jungle to a newbie.
I did delete the 3 files, and did a new mpegfile with MP2 instead, so the video has the audio in the same file now.
The sound was good, so dont really need to fix it, the only thing was that I have many parrarell lines in the video, they are not
in pinnacle, just the final render. But maybe that is sorted when doing them to xvid.

I am going to try out autoGK, and hopefully it will be a descent quality.

thank you!

[DB83]

Not sure what you mean by 'parallel lines'.

It is possible you are viewing the effects of interlacing.

Before you do any more it is worth mentioning that your capture would have been interlaced top-field first (Ulead call this field B). Your final Mgeg MUST also be top-field first. Other programs have different naming conventions to that of Ulead.

If you changed the field order unknowingly then the video would be corrupted.

[Akerhage]

maybe it is, its like lines across the video, from left to right..that are jumping a bit, like blury motion. But maybe thats because the bad vhs-quality, cant really explain how it looks. I am running autoGK now, seems to take a while?

[Akerhage]

Do you refer to "change field order" when capturing, from Lower field first to Upper field first?
I can make theese changes the rest of the bands if so! The rest of the bands are more important that the quality and sound are good. This first one I consider a test and try out more.

[DB83]

Analogue Video (VHS) is normally captured Top-Field first - Ulead call this 'Field B' which seems to be an opposite as 'A' normally comes before 'B'

Many encoders, Ulead included, default to Bottom-field first - Ulead call this 'Field A'.

The simple rule is that you encode/re-encode in the same field order that you captured it. You can check the capture properties under Ulead. I would assume that Pinnacle can also do the same. But, as I said, swopped field-order = corrupt video.

[Akerhage]

Okay, thanks...will try to find this "field A and B". havent come across it yet, only the two I did mention.
But thats good to know, didnt understand the importence in that! Have to check pinnacle what it says there aswell!

[Akerhage]

Is this something I can get rid of? Have written in swedish, but should say that theese blue lines are during the whole video. and that the picture below is a worst case scenario, but as you se the image has split itself. Can I get rid of theese with some kind of filters?

And I think I am going to test adobe premiere for capturing, ulead seems to be useless, the files are not big ether, not the 10-12gb/hour.

[DB83]

These artifacts are not in the original capture in Ulead then you can not blame Ulead.

You are editing/dubbing back to Mpeg2 in Pinnacle. That seems to be the culprit. Even so that should not happen unless you have used some obscure setting.

But maybe they were in the original capture and you just did not notice them. Then the blame is entirely with easycap.

I assume your OS is no later than XP as the version of Ulead you are using would have issues with Vista/Win7.

Mpeg2 at 8,000 kbps is 4 gig per hour. If you want a higher quality then ditch that easycap and get a real capture card.

10/12gig per hour suggests you have read something on here (or elsewhere) about DV. You would need an ADVC to capture in DV unless you have a DV camera and can do analogue pass-through with that

[Akerhage]

The artifacts are in the raw-files from ulead aswell. And I am using windows 7 64bit, have the lates ulead program and drivers for windows 7. But maybe better to buy a new hardware. http://easycapexpertti.mybisi.com/product/easycap-dc60-v31b-video-capture-macxpvistawin7 a better choise, or do I need to get a Tv Out Graphic Card for this? I thought I could edit in pinnacle and save the video with same preferences, not losing quality.

[DB83]

You can use Pinnacle. Ok, I was confused about Ulead - you said that they were not in Pinnacle but now you add that they were in the original capture. I really do not understand why you also do not see this in Pinnacle.

Looking closer at the top picture there is considerable disturbance/ tearing. The issue here could well be the VCR you are using/poor leads connections or the old chestnut - time base issues. None of this can be fixed in software.

[Akerhage]

Okay, sorry for saying missguided things. But the ulead-files are the same indeed. Question is if I could get rid of them with better equitment or if it is the tapes that are bad. The easycap I linked to is this as bad as the other ones aswell. It seems when reading that it should be ALOT better then the one I have, and same hardware that are in other much expensiver things. I guess I should just be happy with the quality and move on then, or just buy some new kit.