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  1. Member
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    Hi guys,

    I've got a DVD that I'd like to shrink to DVD5 size, menus and extras within, with 2.0 .AC3.
    It has 2.0 PCM and 5.1 AC3 channels and I want my dvd with 2.0 AC3. I only want to have one single 2.0 ac3 audio stream.

    I've already demuxed each title set, encoded .waws to .ac3, remuxed them, but I can't make up my DVD out of them.
    The guides I read here were for a single title set: the main movie. I tried to apply them to my case, unsuccesfully.

    Is there a way to create my dvd?

    Thanks!
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  2. Member ricardouk's Avatar
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    I love it when a plan comes together!
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  3. Member Noahtuck's Avatar
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    DVD Rebuilder will not convert audio.

    Remove the PCM audio and that will save a ton of room!!

    Going from 5.1 to 2.0 ac3 will not save enough room to even be worth the time or effort.
    Originally a member since 2001, LONG LIVE TARAN's!!!
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  4. Member
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    Thanks for the quick answers!

    Originally Posted by Noahtuck View Post
    DVD Rebuilder will not convert audio.

    Remove the PCM audio and that will save a ton of room!!

    Going from 5.1 to 2.0 ac3 will not save enough room to even be worth the time or effort.
    Actually I made a 2.0 ac3 of the pcm and I kept only this.
    My problem was that after muxing I got complete VIDEO_TS folders out of title sets, although I need to put/edit those title sets back to my DVD structure.

    I could maybe join the remuxed VIDEO_TS folders with TMPGEnc DVD Author and then shrink it to DVD 5 size but then the menus will be gone...
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  5. Member ricardouk's Avatar
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    my bad....i thought it did.

    I have some some dvds where if you remove PCM audio i end up with no auadio tracks, theres no ac3 or mp2 tracks just PCM.

    My suggestion...decrypt/copy/demux main title with your favourite decrypter, convert the pcm to ac3 or mp2 (you're in pal land) and mux it back with muxman.

    edit: seems you done it
    I love it when a plan comes together!
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  6. Member ricardouk's Avatar
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    you can use vobblanker to replace the main title in the dvd with the one you converted, done that some years ago with vobblanker and pgcedit

    use chapter extractor to export chapters and import chapters into muxman otherwise the chapters menu wont work, loads of things have to be "synced" as well like subs or you can deactivate some menus/actions with dvdremake or pgcedit....lots of work
    Last edited by ricardouk; 18th Jul 2011 at 06:56.
    I love it when a plan comes together!
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  7. Member
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    Originally Posted by ricardouk View Post
    you can use vobblanker to replace the main title in the dvd with the one you converted, done that some years ago with vobblanker and pgcedit
    And If I do so, does it keep the extras?

    Could repeat this replacement with each title?

    WOW that would be nice
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  8. Member
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    Originally Posted by ricardouk View Post
    use chapter extractor to export chapters and import chapters into muxman otherwise the chapters menu wont work, loads of things have to be "synced" as well like subs or you can deactivate some menus/actions with dvdremake or pgcedit....lots of work
    I demuxed and remuxed chapter by chapter. Did I miss something?
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  9. Member ricardouk's Avatar
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    chapter by chapter? you extracted every chapter and converted it?

    1- create folder A on your desktop and rip your dvd (full) to it
    2- create folder B and rip the main title to it.
    3- demux the main title in folder B with vob edit, at the end you'll have individual video, audio (PCM) tracks, convert the pcm or ac3 5.1 track to ac3 stereo.
    4- use chapter extractor to export the chapter points from main title in folder B
    5- use muxman to mux the video/audio/chapter points from step 3 and 4 to folder C
    6- use vobblanker to replace main title from the dvd in folder A with the one from folder C

    at the end i think you need to update the IFO's with PGCedit but im not sure, i done this a long time ago but i think the workflow is similar to the one i posted above
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  10. Member
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    Originally Posted by ricardouk View Post
    chapter by chapter? you extracted every chapter and converted it?
    No no, i wrote it wrong, i did it title by title.
    Then when I remuxed it - also using celltimes - I got VIDEO_TS folders for each title.

    Can I repeat the process you describe for each title? (Actually it's a concert DVD with bonus songs in separate titles)
    I hope I can use PGCedit...
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  11. Member ricardouk's Avatar
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    do it for each extra title and replace with voblanker and update ifo's, search the guides section
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  12. Member ricardouk's Avatar
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    here's the guide, it uses pgcdemux instead of vobedit, its for the main title only but you can repeat the process for individual/extra titles

    http://www.digital-digest.com/articles/Simplistic_Guide_for_Replacing_DVD_Streams_page1.html
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  13. Member Noahtuck's Avatar
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    Basically doing all that is a waste of time.

    The size difference between a 5.1 & 2.0 AC3 track is (not exactly but)100mb at best!
    And that's not enough of a space savings to make any kind of difference in the video quality when shrunk down to a dvd5 from a dvd9.

    When i have had some concert dvd's that i wanted to compress down to a dvd5 and it ONLY had a PCM track then i have converted it to AC3 then replaced the PCM with it using the same method ricardouk listed, using pgcdemux, vobblanker, etc.
    Originally a member since 2001, LONG LIVE TARAN's!!!
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  14. Member
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    Thank you, guys! I am going to try!

    Originally Posted by Noahtuck View Post
    Basically doing all that is a waste of time.

    The size difference between a 5.1 & 2.0 AC3 track is (not exactly but)100mb at best!
    And that's not enough of a space savings to make any kind of difference in the video quality when shrunk down to a dvd5 from a dvd9
    Actually my DVD has 5.1 ac3 and 2.0 pcm, I removed the 5.1 ac3 and compressed the pcm to 2.0 ac3 - as you did.
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  15. Member Noahtuck's Avatar
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    NO, not as i did....
    I don't know how much clearer i can make it but.....

    i only converted PCM 2.0 to DD 2.0 because there was NO AC3 audio track, NONE AT ALL!!!

    Read what i wrote again.....
    Originally a member since 2001, LONG LIVE TARAN's!!!
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  16. Member
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    OK, I don't know exactly what the point is, but I compressed the 2.0 pcm to 2.0 ac3 (as you did ?), then I muxed it with the video. The original dvd also had 5.1 ac3 audio, which I did not remux.
    The runtime is around 2:20, so I gained more than 1,5 GB by removing the pcm.

    So I used Vobblanker, replaced the main movie. Then I tried to replace the other titles. The software asked me if I want to update the IFO (because of the new audio), I pressed OK but then I could not proceed to replacing, as the process button didn't get activated.
    Then I checked the DVD files and they had a weird size, some 1,7 GB instead of 6 GB.

    If the IFOs are updated right, I could rename and replace VOBs of the rest of the titles. (I did something similar before and it did not work.)
    Maybe VIDEO_TS.ifo would need an update too, I just have no idea how to do it.
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    Noahtuck was simply saying that you needn't go to all that bother, just take out the pcm audio & leave the 5.1 ac3 as is. Why do you want to convert the 5.1 to 2.0? As Noahtuck has said, the space savings is negligible.
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  18. Member
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    Originally Posted by chowmein View Post
    Noahtuck was simply saying that you needn't go to all that bother, just take out the pcm audio & leave the 5.1 ac3 as is. Why do you want to convert the 5.1 to 2.0? As Noahtuck has said, the space savings is negligible.
    The answer is that I have a simple stereo tv at home. On that special tv 5.1 sounds worse than 2.0.
    And it was actually the 2.0 pcm that I encoded to 2.0 ac3
    Last edited by emodio80; 19th Jul 2011 at 09:54.
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  19. Member
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    I replaced titles manually and updated ifos using ifoupdate but it did not get the dvd structure quite right.

    I give up. Re-authoring out of remuxed titles with DVD Shrink (no menus) will make do.
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  20. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by emodio80 View Post
    Originally Posted by chowmein View Post
    Noahtuck was simply saying that you needn't go to all that bother, just take out the pcm audio & leave the 5.1 ac3 as is. Why do you want to convert the 5.1 to 2.0? As Noahtuck has said, the space savings is negligible.
    The answer is that I have a simple stereo tv at home. On that special tv 5.1 sounds worse than 2.0.
    And it was actually the 2.0 pcm that I encoded to 2.0 ac3
    So the thing to do is NOT give up on 5.1, nor use the LPCM 2.0 instead, but to go to the settings on your DVD/BD player and tell it to automaically downmix your 5.1 to 2.0 for ALL outputs. Then, it should NOT sound worse.
    And then you won't have to Re-encode ANYTHING, just remux, like Noahtuck was saying.

    Scott
    "When will the rhetorical questions end?!" - George Carlin
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  21. Member ricardouk's Avatar
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    and while you're at it, download the free 30 day trial of dvdlab and create some "cool" animated menus and buttons for your dvd, or you can use some of the dvdauthor gui's


    another aproach would be to let avs2dvd remux/author your dvd, it wont convert your titles, you can create some fancy animated menus with it
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    The best method (IMO) to dismantle the DVD structure & make changes & reassemble (keeping menus) is:

    1) PGDemux to demux to separate video, audio, chapter list, subs (if applicable)
    2) Convert your pcm audio to 2.0 ac3 (with Aften WavToAC3 Encoder)
    3) Reassemble video, audio & chapters with Muxman
    4) Add back the menus with VobBlanker

    It's fairly easy, and if there's no subs you're laughing.
    (PS: I "think")
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  23. If there is one and only one PGC in the VTST domain containing the title you want to convert, there is an easy way to export, reauthor and import the title.

    You have to demux the PGC with PgcDemux, and create the cellstimes.txt file (that contains the chapter points, needed later). Then, you can convert the audio to any format compatible with the DVD-Video standard, and remux the title with MuxMan. Don't forget to import the celltimes.txt file in muxman to recreate the chapter points. Finally, in PgcEdit, select the original title and use File -> Replace VTST Titles. Your newly authored title should have the same number of cells than the original title, and therefore PgcEdit should accept to rebuild the exact same structure than in the original DVD. The rest of the DVD will be kept unchanged, and the chapter menu (if any) should continue to work as expected.

    (It is theoretically also possible to use that method to replace several titles in the same VTST domain in one operation, but it is more complex to remux them correctly with Muxman.)
    r0lZ
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  24. Member ricardouk's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info r0lZ
    I love it when a plan comes together!
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  25. Member
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    Ive got hardware problems now, so my project came to a halt.

    But I would like to note that downmixed 5.1 does sound worse on my TV than 2.0.
    On my previous tv downmixed 5.1 sounded better, so I think it depends quite a lot on the audio qualities of the TV one has.
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    The reason I said "I think" a couple of posts up, is because the OP has 2 audio streams - he is deleting one altogether (the 5.0 ac3) and converting the other (pcm -> 2.0 ac3). Does this make a problem when reassembling in pgcedit?
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  27. No. The stream definitions are copied as they are in the remuxed DVD. Of course, if there are changes in the number of streams, or in their order or languages, you have to edit the audio and/or subpic menu to take the differences into account.

    I wrote Import VTST Titles just to be able to easily import a remuxed title, with some modifications (of course), but no change in the number of cells and chapters. You can use it, for example, to remove studio logos at the beginning of the movie (I do it often with DVDShrink in reauthor mode), or to change or add some streams.
    r0lZ
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    Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
    Of course, if there are changes in the number of streams ... you have to edit the audio menu to take the differences into account.
    But that's not strictly necessary, right? It doesn't matter if a menu button points to a non-existent stream? And there's no need here to use Vobblanker at all, even to "blank out" the unwanted pcm audio? Correct?
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  29. Well, yes and no. It depends of the situation and what you have modified.

    For example, if you demux a title with 3 streams, say "en", "fr" and "es", and then you remux them in a different order ("fr" then "en" and "es"), then the menu button to select English will select French, and vice-versa. Terrible!

    Similarly, if you delete a stream (say "en") that is before other streams you want to keep, the remaining streams will be shifted. In my example, the English button will select French, French will select Spanish, and Spanish will select nothing!

    Of course, if you remove the last stream(s), or if you insert a new stream after the original streams, or if you change an existing stream without changing its language, the problem is less important. But anyway, I recommend to hide the menu buttons that select streams that are not available any more, as it is confusing to leave do-nothing options in the menus.

    IIRC, VobBlanker can remove a physical stream from the VOB files, but it will not remove it from the list of streams in the IFOs. That means that, from the player "point of view", the stream still exist, and can be selected and played. Of course, nothing will be played, but there is no real need to fix the menu buttons. In the other hand, when you replace a VTST title with PgcEdit, as I said above, PgcEdit replaces the streams definitions with the ones from the imported IFO. Therefore, you have to take care of the number and order of the streams when you remux the title, or you will have to fix the navigation manually.

    Note that if you don't want to fix the nav, when you remux the title, you can also insert short dummy streams at the places occupied by the removed streams, just to keep the remaining streams in order.

    Or you can also add "gaps" in the stream list with PgcEdit. (Open the PGC Editor, copy the streams that have been shifted to their original position, declare the removed streams as "none", then go to Domain Stream Attributes, and do the same thing.) However, note that the "gaps" are known to cause problems to some players. It has been reported several times that the user cannot select the streams that are after a gap with the remote. But the menu still works, and that problem concerns only some rare players. To avoid it, you can use an existing stream definition to fill the gaps. In my example, you can use the "fr" stream to fill the gap of stream 0, and you will have finally "fr", "fr" and "es". The French and Spanish buttons will work as expected, but you will select French if you use the English button. I'm not sure it's less good than selecting a stream that doesn't exist any more.

    Of course, this discussuin is only theoretical. If you just want to transcode an existing stream from PCM to AC3, then be sure to remux the streams in the correct order, and everything will be fine.
    Last edited by r0lZ; 26th Jul 2011 at 05:12.
    r0lZ
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    Thank you, r0lZ!! Very nicely explained, I appreciate it!
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