workflow :
jcv hr-s5800u>tbc-1000>all-in-wonder ve
capture settings :
mpeg2 (I frame only) *supposed to be comparable to mjpeg and huffy takes too much space
and i can use videosoap (17% despecle) with the ati mpeg2 format
(saves me a lot of filtering)
704X480 , interlaced , 20Mb/sec constant (max value)
audio : 48000 Khz 16 bits 384 kb/sec (max value)
avisynth script feed to virtualdub(filtering) to tmpgenc
it's reaaly easier for me to do this within virtualdub
script made with fitcd :
# -= AviSynth v2.5.8.5 script by FitCD v1.2.8 =-
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\DGDecode.dll")
Mpeg2Source("F:\100 limite\ONE.d2v")
#Trim(0,8328).FadeOut(15) # i could leave out the fadeout thing i made 150 , 15
ConvertToRGB32(interlaced=true) # For TMPGEnc or VFAPI; 32 instead of 24 so virtualdub won't reconvert
in virtualdub i usualy use something like
deinterlace unfold , chroma smoother (420 mpeg2) , saturation ajust , and something like temporal smoother or cleaner , deinterlace fold
seams logical to me to unfold before filtering because it's field based
i try not to over-filter , i can live with a little noize
then i frameserve to tmpgenc
mpeg2 , 704X480 , 4:3 , 29.97 , variable CQ=90 (9500-9800) , interlaced top field , 420 , DC precision 10 bits , motion search : fast . detect scene change , audio mp2 48K 192 bits
most of the settings at default
i get no drop frames while capturing
maybe i could do better ? what is my weakest link ?
maybe some settings are pushed too far or not far enough ?
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i can't get higher than 20Mb/s ... i wanted to take avantage of the videosoap ,,
should i use some P-frames in the process ? if so how many ?
IPI or IPPI ? IPPPI ??
stupid question ,, should it be an even number groupe because it's interlaced ?
I read that B frames are the hardest to encode .. so might has well leave them out
and yes , HcEnc would be an option
if i want to use virtualdub i've got to convertToRGB .. no ??Last edited by smartel; 8th Jun 2011 at 12:39.
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Short GOPs of only I and P frames should be fine. Most encoders use the same quantizer for both I and P frames. But P frames will be much smaller because they only encode the differences from the preceding frame. 20 Mb/s with P frames should be higher quality than 20 Mb/s with only I frames. Editing is a little more difficult because the P frames have to be decoded sequentially (ie, to see a P frame you have to decompress the I and P frames before it). But with modern CPUs and standard definition video that's not a problem. Six frame GOPs is common: IPPPPP. Try it and see if there's any noticeable difference to all I frames.
No. Each frame contains two fields.
Yes. And they also usually use a higher quantizer (lower quality) on the theory that you won't notice if the picture degrades for a short time, it is cleaned up by a P or I frame within the next frame or two.
VirtualDub will convert YUV to RGB if necessary. It has a problem with interlaced YV12 but you can work around that since you are using Mpeg2Source(). Just add the upConv argument to get YUY2 instead:
Mpeg2Source("filename.d2v", upConv=1)
If you see significant macroblocking or DCT ringing in your caps you can use the CPU argument to deblock and dering:
Mpeg2Source("filename.d2v", upConv=1, CPU=6) #2=deblock Y, 6=deblock+dering YUV, see docs for more
Some of VirtualDub's internal filters can work in YUV. The most important for your purposes is the Brightness/Contrast filter. You can use it first to make sure you retain any super black or super bright areas. Or you can use ConvertToRGB(matrix="PC.601") in your AVS script to avoid losing them. Or use the Historgram() filter in AviSynth to verify all your video is between Y=16 and Y=235. -
Closed or open GOP ?
I'm just starting out at capturing (and filtering too)
I think i've got a good basic setup to work with (my old athlon 1800+ may be old*..)
*some filters i can't use 'cause some instructions are not suported SSE2 , SSE3 etc ..)
somebody said learning curve !??Last edited by smartel; 9th Jun 2011 at 00:21.
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I found that for most of my ATI cards I had to tweak the brightness and color settings just a bit for captures true to the source. Brightness up maybe 10-20% and IIRC tweak the color just a bit more green and less red, or maybe the other way around.
Stock settings were definitely off.
Used to do I-frame Mpegs, I think the max bitrate was 15 then, re-encoded for SVCD back then, no major problems. Started just going DVD-ready mpg and never looked back. Gave up on VHS capture early on. -
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Thanks for the AviSynth RGB conversion info, jagabo.
Thanks for that, too. Either I wasn't aware of this GOP issue, or I was in denial. Maybe that's why I had problems with an old captured video a while back (??).Last edited by sanlyn; 21st Mar 2014 at 20:40.
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Open GOPs are when B frames reference an I frame from the next GOP. For example:
IBBPBBI... (temporal order)
The last two B frames can reference the second I frame. Ie, to correctly decode the last two B frames may require the I frame from the next GOP. Without B frames there are no forward references so you can't have open GOPs.Last edited by jagabo; 9th Jun 2011 at 08:42.
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how can i frameserve to HCenc from virtualdub ??
ok i found this https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/306504-Frameserve-from-virtualdub-to-HC#1977050 -
i ended up doing this :
# -= AviSynth v2.5.8.5 script by FitCD v1.2.8 =-
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\DGDecode.dll")
Mpeg2Source("F:\100 limites\Nouveau dossier\1.de bonne humeur.d2v" , upConv=1, CPU=6)
ColorYUV(Levels="PC->TV")
ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true) # For VirtualDub or CCE
maybe my last line was too much !?
and fed it to avstodvd tweaked the settings not to have crop or resize
and skiped the virtualdub thing -
You mean ColorYUV(Levels="PC->TV")? That's probably not right. Check the levels with Histogram(). Make sure the video stays predominantly out of the brown bands. But you want your blacks to be at the left band, brights at the right band:
Obviously, not every shot will have full blacks and full brights. Adjust for a variety of shots.Last edited by jagabo; 10th Jun 2011 at 00:25.
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Since you are specifying upConv=1 in Mpeg2Source() the output of Mpeg2Source() is YUY2. So the ConvertToYUY2() at the end of your script is redundant.
The levels should already be in the Y=16-235 range. (Maybe the AIW is unusual in this respect?) ColorYUV(Levels="PC->TV") will then compress the Y range even further, roughly 32-215. If the levels were right to start with that will give very washed out, dull looking video. On the top is the normal MPEG 2 video, below after ColorYUV(Levels="PC->TV"):
So your script could look like:
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\DGDecode.dll")
Mpeg2Source("F:\100 limites\Nouveau dossier\1.de bonne humeur.d2v", upConv=1, CPU=6) #output is YUY2
ColorYUV(Levels="PC->TV") #or some other YUV adjustment, if necessary
# video already YUY2 for VirtualDub or CCE
Last edited by jagabo; 10th Jun 2011 at 07:49.
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on another post , jagabo you talked about mpeg artifacts
i did a quick search and their is lots to be aware about
Aliasing , Quantisation Noise , Overload (wrap-around) , The Gibbs Effect ( a.k.a mosquitos) ,
Blockiness , and maybe more !??
interesting reading http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~nd/surprise_96/journal/vol4/sab/report.html
with my videosoap i should get by with the mosquito noise (at least most of it)
with the bitrate (20M/s) i should get by for the blockiness (and maybe the Quantisation noise)
with the others , i'm not really shure
if i understand correctly , adding P-frames with my I-frame would even out the bitrate within the GOP
because P-frames hold less information so needs less bits/second (and processing) keeping the data for the I-frame
it's a raw interpretation , but it's my understanding
and capturing avi wouldn't give me any of these errors -
Capture in avi lossless man it's much better, it's a bit for bit copy you'll have, you can easily manipulate it in software after.If you want a good encoding i suggest you forget mpeg2 forever and have a look at x264.
Best pro mpeg2 encoders will not be even close to x264 results, always blocking somewhere.
I found good x264 settings recently for vhs back up if you're interested*** DIGITIZING VHS / ANALOG VIDEOS SINCE 2001**** GEAR: JVC HR-S7700MS, TOSHIBA V733EF AND MORE -
At 20 Mb/s I don't think you'll have too much blockiness or posterization. Mosquito noise, ie, DCT ringing artifacts, will still be there to some extent. But with VHS capture the video is pretty noisy so you probably won't see it.
In theory, using I and P frames will give you better compression because the P frames only encode the differences between succeeding frames. So at the same bitrate IP sequences will require less bitrate than all I frames. Or conversely, at the same bitrate IP sequences should have better image quality. But with VHS there's so much noise you might not see much difference. I would try it both ways on the same video and compare results. Also compare a lossless YUY2 + HuffYUV capture. -
well because it is so noisy (1st , 2nd and even 3rd generations dubs (a few))
thats why i want to use my videosoap it helps a bit
and i will convert to dvd and use jagabo's avisynth trick
when i'll get more experienced i may try other things too
for now i'm trying to cap whole tapes and do some tests
i know , in the futur i will get a bigger hard drive and go uncompress
uncompress or looseless well huffy..Last edited by smartel; 15th Jun 2011 at 20:26.
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thanks for the advice ..
another silly question
should i plug my vcr's audio directly into my soundcard (old soundblaster)
via a 1/8-RCA adapter ?
and not follow the video route,
the video goes through a tbc ,
direct i know it should be better
i'm worried about audio sync
now my audio is in sync but i get some noise -
as suggested here is a sample
was captured with mmc 9.02 for some reason virtualdub didn't seam to work last night
i don't know if it makes any difference !?
and the info
General
Complete name : F:\100 limites\Sample (12 40 am).avi
Format : AVI
Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
File size : 25.1 MiB
Duration : 2s 457ms
Overall bit rate : 85.8 Mbps
Writing library : VirtualDub build 32842/release
Video
ID : 0
Format : Huffman
Codec ID : HFYU
Duration : 2s 457ms
Bit rate : 84.2 Mbps
Width : 704 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 3:2
Frame rate : 30.116 fps
Standard : NTSC
Color space : RGB
Bit depth : 8 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 8.278
Stream size : 24.7 MiB (98%)
Audio
ID : 1
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, Sign : Signed
Codec ID : 1
Codec ID/Hint : Microsoft
Duration : 2s 457ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 536 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 461 KiB (2%)
Interleave, duration : 41 ms (1.23 video frame)
Interleave, preload duration : 500 ms
info() gives me assume bottom field when i know it should be top field
gives me yuy2 , not RGB like mediainfo says
and the histogram() gives me a little too much blacks
sample made with virtualdub in direct stream copy
and my audio isn't in sync anymore ,, plugged directly in the soundcardLast edited by smartel; 16th Jun 2011 at 08:28.
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Ouch! The saturation is way over the top. I'd start by pulling those down:
ColorYUV(cont_y=-10, cont_u=-80, cont_v=-80) -
would look like this
now my problem is sync the audio went direct to the soundcard and the video was buffered into the tbc giving me out of sync , (hope it's not gradual lost of sync)
i'll try to test this with media player classic . never done this before
i'll check the sync at the start and the end of my capture and hope i get the same results -
You also have a severe dot crawl problem caused by leakage of the chroma channels into the luma channel. Are you using some kind of cheap composite to s-video adapter?
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s-video through tbc-1000 but i think this may be a 2nd generation dub
would Undot() be useful for this ??Last edited by smartel; 16th Jun 2011 at 11:57.
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Last edited by jagabo; 16th Jun 2011 at 12:39.
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using this
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\MeGUI_2008_x86\tools\avisynth_plugin\checkma te.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\MeGUI_2008_x86\tools\ffms\ffms2.dll")
FFVideoSource("F:\100 limites\Sample (12 40 am).avi").AssumeFPS(30.116)
AssumeTFF()
ColorYUV(cont_y=-10, cont_u=-80, cont_v=-80)
ColorYUV(Levels="PC->TV")
ConvertToYV12(interlaced=true)
Checkmate()
is my ColorYUV(Levels="PC->TV") obsolete ?
i checked with histogram() and helped my blacks -
Yes, ColorYUV(Levels="PC->TV")is crushing the range too much. My ColorYUV(cont_y=-10...) might not be quite enough. Try maybe -15 instead of -10. You have to look at a wider variety of shots to be sure though.
Then you can start thinking about general noise reduction. Try something like MCTemporalDenoise()
AviSource("Sample (12 40 am).avi")
AssumeTFF()
ColorYUV(cont_y=-10, cont_u=-80, cont_v=-80)
ConvertToYV12(interlaced=true)
CheckMate()
McTemporalDenoise(interlaced=true, settings="medium")Last edited by jagabo; 16th Jun 2011 at 12:38.
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