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  1. Member
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    Anyone know anything about the future of DVD-RAM?

    I love the format, but finding disks seems to be getting difficult. For all I know it may have been cancelled as a standard format. I checked the DVD-Forum and they still have HD-DVD info on it...so maybe it's not the most up to date source of information.

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    The format is not popular in the US. Personally I found them to be a PITA compared to DVD-RW as I edit my recordings on a PC.

    They are hard to find in brick-and-mortar stores. Finding them online is not difficult if you know where to look... amazon.com, buy.com, rima.com

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    DVD-RAM is on life support in the USA and the family and doctors are thinking of pulling the plug. The discs are expensive and arguably offer little advantage over much cheaper DVD+RW discs. As DVD recorders themselves are dying in North America and almost all the manufacturers have abandoned the marketplace for them the odds of anyone continuing to support DVD-RAM in North America are not very good at all.

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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Personally I found them to be a PITA compared to DVD-RW as I edit my recordings on a PC.
    I transfer recordings all the time to my pc on DVD-RAM and it is just as easy to work with as standard dvd format or mpg or ?
    I don't know why it would be a PITA by any means.

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    I know it's not popular, but it does work pretty well, though slow, they are dead nuts reliable. I have quite a few of them and I'm wonder if I should stick with them and use them or sell them(they are worth quite a bit) and use DVD RW disks or just quality DVD-Rs.

    ...and yes, they are expensive.

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    Originally Posted by Noahtuck View Post
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Personally I found them to be a PITA compared to DVD-RW as I edit my recordings on a PC.
    I transfer recordings all the time to my pc on DVD-RAM and it is just as easy to work with as standard dvd format or mpg or ?
    I don't know why it would be a PITA by any means.
    Most programs that can read VRO format recordings can only cope with them if they are contiguous, like those on a DVD+/-RW. However, DVD-RAM allows file fragmentation to occur and can compensate for bad sectors like an HDD.

    Unfortunately I have recorded programming on DVD-RAM discs with one or two bad sectors on occasion, or had a recording that was not in one piece. Very few programs could read or play those correctly although my DVD recorder had no problem playing or recording the discs.

  7. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    DVD-RAM uses DVD-VR, not DVD-Video, which allows for odd resolutions.
    So therein lies one major problem, when trying to rip/edit/reauthor the discs.

    Some recorders stick to DVD-Video compatible DVD-VR specs, others do not.
    This is why users have such polar experiences.

    DVD-RAM is already dead -- it died at least 5 years ago.
    DVD-RW is more reliable, and DVD+RW is easier to use. That's that.
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  8. Member lacywest's Avatar
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    If had any money I would do this ...

    http://www.crutchfield.com/p_133AF120L5/Panasonic-DVD-RAM-5-pack.html?tp=2938

    or here ... http://bigtimebattery.com/store/LM-AF120LU.html?site=www.shopzilla.com

    or here ... http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_05716036000P?srccode=cii_10043468&cpncode=21-...0070921x00003c

    Back when they were popular ... Best Buy ... had some pretty good prices and I bought a few 5 Packs.

    I've got quite a few of them ... last night ... there wasn't any TV Shows to watch ... that we wanted to watch ... NCIS was on ... I used the Panasonic EZ28 to record it on a DVD RAM and used the signal from the Directv Box.

    So while that channel was recording the TV Shows coming on ... My wife and I ... decided to watch a movie ... so I dug out our DVD Binders and went through to see what we had to watch ... while flipping through the pages ... I found 3 DVD-RAM disks and 3 DVD RW disks. So I added them to the collection I already had ... I believe I have at least ... 20 DVD-RAM disks.

    I dont think I will need to think about having to buy any more DVD-Ram disks ... I've got plenty of them.

    Last week ... I did a search for DVD-RAM disks ... wasn't too many places that were selling them.

    I use DVD RW disks ... for burning ... movies ... TV Shows ... in the AVI format ... Divx or Xvid ... and play them on the Philips DVD player.

    My wife early this evening was playing a movie ... and the suspense was so good ... I told her I wanted to finish watching it with her later ... after I was through working on planting the vegetables in our backyard. When we finished watching it ... I took the disk out ... I was surprised ... I knew it was a AVI video but I didn't know it was one I burnt to a CD ... quality looked very good.
    Last edited by lacywest; 1st Jun 2011 at 05:36. Reason: typo

  9. Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    DVD-RAM is already dead -- it died at least 5 years ago.
    DVD-RW is more reliable, and DVD+RW is easier to use. That's that.
    That's just not true - at least in my experience. I have had terrible problems with DVD-RW over the years. So much so that I almost expect a DVD-RW disc I haven't had reason use for a while, to come up with an error of some sort.

    Never had a DVD RAM disc (I have about 25) fail on me. Ever.

    Availability longer term is largely academic. Although pressed DVDs seem to be pretty reliable, I have seen increasing numbers of comments from people finding errors in burnt discs, especially when they're more than a couple of years old.

    I, and quite a few other folk I would think, are simply copying their DVD data onto hard disc - or rather two independent hard discs, for security - and ditching data DVDs, over time.

    Although Blu-ray has a huge data capacity for potential storage of data, I can't see many people trusting yet another laser recordable medium, for long term data storage.

    I can see that pressed DVDs and pressed Blu-rays have a future. For people's film collections, for example.

    The recordable 'burnt' versions will soon become a thing of the past, especially for long term data storage, I would guess.

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    pippas - With regards to your well meaning post...

    DVD-RAM is long dead in North America, where lordsmurf lives. Your experience in the UK may be different. But the original poster is from the USA. It's dead here.

    Bad quality media always eventually craps out. I've yet to find any errors in any burnt DVDs or CDs I ever made. But then again I only use high quality media for my burns.

    We get posts all the time (had one last week in fact) from people whose hard drive collections of media are gone because of catastrophic disk failure. I was talking recently with an IT buddy of mine (I work in IT too by the way) on this very subject. He keeps multiple copies of stuff for backup. I don't keep anything I really can't live without only a hard drive. I've had really bad luck with hard drives over the years. I consider them completely unreliable. Burned media has never let me down, so it's what I use.

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    As far as I am concerned DVD-RAM does not live up to its reputation for long life and reliability. The claims made for 30-year data retention are unverifiable, and since DVD-RAM is phase change media, I wouldn't count on it. I never found DVD-RAM's chasing playback or on-disc editing features to be useful. My finalized DVD-RW discs, recorded in video mode, play in most regular DVD players. Panasonic DVD players are about he only ones that play DVD-RAM. DVD-RAM was not worth the $2 or $3 per disc it cost me, compared to $1.00 or less per disc for DVD-RW.I won't miss DVD-RAM when it disappears for good.

    Two out of the 10 DVD-RAM discs I ever purchased failed within weeks, and after only being used a few times. Afterwards, I could see a large spot in the dye layer and surrounded by a halo. Two more of the remaining discs eventually developed bad sectors, but neither of those had been used more than 30 times. Perhaps they were still functional, but I no longer trusted them. These were all Panasonic DVD-RAM, which is supposed to be good media, not no-name junk, and were burned in a Panasonic DVD recorder.

  12. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pippas View Post
    I have had terrible problems with DVD-RW over the years. So much so that I almost expect a DVD-RW disc I haven't had reason use for a while, to come up with an error of some sort.
    Your issues are more likely due to media quality, than format itself. Based on format itself, DVD-RW has proven itself more reliable. But that only holds true if the media itself is a quality manufacture. Hence why people disagree. You're not comparing apples to apples (or more accurately, non-rotten apples to non-rotten oranges).
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  13. Member lacywest's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    Originally Posted by pippas View Post
    I have had terrible problems with DVD-RW over the years. So much so that I almost expect a DVD-RW disc I haven't had reason use for a while, to come up with an error of some sort.
    Your issues are more likely due to media quality, than format itself. Based on format itself, DVD-RW has proven itself more reliable. But that only holds true if the media itself is a quality manufacture. Hence why people disagree. You're not comparing apples to apples (or more accurately, non-rotten apples to non-rotten oranges).
    Lord Smurf ... first I want to say ... you've been here a long time ... and I do respect you very much ... I would consider it an honor to meet you in person and to see your work place. I work out of a 3 Car garage ... he he he ... especially the 2 Car section.

    I am wondering tho ... you mention DVD-RW as " DVD-RW has proven itself ... " . Correct me if I'm wrong but at the moment DVD-RAM is the only type of disk that can record and allow playback at the same time.

    I am using that feature ... with DVD-RAM disks. Of all the DVD-RAM disks I have ... some are in good shape and some have been abused and have scratches on them. My Panasonic EZ28 records a very nice recording at the 4 HR LP mode but I dont use it very often if not at all. Most of time I use Flex Record and only set it to record for about 2.5 hours.

    I have one DVD-RAM disk that I was using quite a bit but it has some damage on it and some parts of the video recording get screwy looking. So I only record something with that one in XP mode or perhaps a tinge longer ... with the idea that it will zoom through the bad areas and the end result will be so so okay. But since I had more disks to choose from I started using one in better shape.

    So any ways ... my 2 cents ... as soon as my money situation in my home improves ... it will ... [my wife's state retirement and her social security checks are not arriving for some crazy reason for the last 45 days] ... I will check into the Crutchfield DVD-RAM offer and get some more DVD-RAM disks ... I do use them and they serve a purpose for me.

    And as for processing them on my PC ... I use ... TMPGEnc MPEG Editor 2.0 ... TMPGEnc DVD Author ... TMPGEnc 4.0 XPress ... work just fine ... especially ... TMPGEnc MPEG Editor 2.0

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    Originally Posted by lacywest View Post
    And as for processing them on my PC ... I use ... TMPGEnc MPEG Editor 2.0 ... TMPGEnc DVD Author ... TMPGEnc 4.0 XPress ... work just fine ... especially ... TMPGEnc MPEG Editor 2.0
    I tried a TMPGEnc product, TAW, that claimed to work with DVD-RAM recordings two years ago, but had no luck with my problem discs. For what it is worth, I also tried ISOBuster, Dracore VOBtools, VRO2VOB, MPEG Streamclip, and VideoReDo, and all of them failed to read correctly, although they could read other DVD-RAM recordings. VLC could not play the problem discs either, although it did play other DVD-RAM recordings. Only the DVD recorder that made it and PowerDVD could play the recording properly. Cyberlink PowerDirector (an old version bundled with my DVD burner) did copy the problem recordings perfectly, but since I am now using Windows 7, I can't use that version anymore. (Here's the thread from 2 years ago: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/302242-Problems-copying-VRO-files-from-DVD-RAM-SOLVED%21)

    The current PowerDirector costs $70 or $100 depending on the version. Plenty of freeware can work with recordings made on DVD+/-RW. No need to spend $70 - $100 on software to work with those.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 2nd Jun 2011 at 00:06. Reason: Added link, corrected years from 3 to 2

  15. Member lacywest's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Cyberlink PowerDirector (an old version bundled with my DVD burner) did copy the problem recordings perfectly, but since I am now using Windows 7, I can't use that version anymore. (Here's the thread from 2 years ago: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/302242-Problems-copying-VRO-files-from-DVD-RAM-SOLVED%21)

    The current PowerDirector costs $70 or $100 depending on the version. Plenty of freeware can work with recordings made on DVD+/-RW. No need to spend $70 - $100 on software to work with those.
    Thats the reason I use a Dual Boot ... if WIN 7 can't do it ... I reboot into WIN XP.

    The problem I have with Power Director is my screen size ... I use a 31" HDTV and PowerDirector gives me an error message about wanting the screen size to be 1024 x 768 ... things get screwy when I want to use it.

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    Originally Posted by lacywest View Post
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Cyberlink PowerDirector (an old version bundled with my DVD burner) did copy the problem recordings perfectly, but since I am now using Windows 7, I can't use that version anymore. (Here's the thread from 2 years ago: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/302242-Problems-copying-VRO-files-from-DVD-RAM-SOLVED%21)

    The current PowerDirector costs $70 or $100 depending on the version. Plenty of freeware can work with recordings made on DVD+/-RW. No need to spend $70 - $100 on software to work with those.
    Thats the reason I use a Dual Boot ... if WIN 7 can't do it ... I reboot into WIN XP.

    The problem I have with Power Director is my screen size ... I use a 31" HDTV and PowerDirector gives me an error message about wanting the screen size to be 1024 x 768 ... things get screwy when I want to use it.
    Since my copy of XP is a Dell OEM disk, making a dual boot system with Windows 7 isn't possible. It would cost me at least $100 to get a copy of XP, assuming I can still find a genuine one, or to upgrade to Windows 7 Ultimate. Not worth the money just to use a few DVD-RAM discs.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 2nd Jun 2011 at 13:24.

  17. Member Seeker47's Avatar
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    I saw DVD-RAM blanks on the shelves at Fry's, a couple days ago. (The brand was probably either JVC or Panasonic -- I don't recall.)

    OTOH, I discovered that Fry's has stopped selling 3.5" FDDs or the diskettes -- at least in their stores -- which I guess is not too surprising at this point. I still like to have this in a PC as an option, because I can boot up DFSEE with it and do the Acronis Disk Director types of things. (Do that anywhere else with such a compact source !) I know they have a USB stick solution now, but formerly I had only the bootable CD, and it's good to have multiple ways in when you need it.
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  18. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lacywest View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong but at the moment DVD-RAM is the only type of disk that can record and allow playback at the same time.
    If the device supports that function, yes. Technically speaking, "chase play" would be possibly on any DVD, if the device was engineered properly (i.e, multiple lasers, etc). But that isn't really deemed an important feature, and would cost more, so it's never happened that I'm aware of.
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  19. Member [_chef_]'s Avatar
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    Dead or not - its an individual point of view.

    You can still use DVD-RAM and even HD-DVD if you want.


    So there is absolutely nothing wrong with what lordsmurf said.
    *** Now that you have read me, do some other things. ***

  20. Could you ever buy blank HD-DVd for home use .. I never remember seeing them?

    The future for DVD-RAM? About as clear as Steam Trains.
    Last edited by RabidDog; 7th Jun 2011 at 08:02.
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  21. My 2 cents:
    DVD-RAM is better than any other DVD media. It's more flexible and the embedded devices I've used it with have more control with -RAM than any other media they handled. It was designed to retain data longer than common media and its write-erase formulation is intended to last for more than 100,000 cycles. There must be a reason why medical records are kept on it.

    That said, it's expensive and hard to find. Lots of Blu-Ray players can handle it, but lots and lots of other player can not read or write it.

    It's the BetaMax of the discs. And BetaMax is still in use in some professional studios.

    To answer question directly, the future is sealed shut. Only high end shops use it now. But anyone can use it if they are willing to make an average investment in hardware and then buy $350 worth of media, 50 count, on a spindle. Ironic though, the media is so durable that you will only need a few, but you can only buy them in bulk.

  22. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    BetaCam is still used in professional studios. Betamax is only used in the same transfer houses that still use VHS & 8mm & U-matic as source options.

    BTW, please stop digging up and adding to 4 year old posts. You additional info isn't THAT earth shattering to the topic, especially when it's just an opinion without hard stats to back it up.

    Scott

  23. Gee whiz Scott, was it really big enough to admonish it? What a gruff greeting to a new participant! And while I didn't give citations, each and every point I made can be cited by standards, records and simple searches. My analogy to BetaMax stands corrected thank you.

    I came to this forum to search for help. I found a topic that I could contribute to, prior to asking for help, while I was researching -so I wouldn't ask for help- because I'd rather RTM or other documentation before I start to impinge upon others' time by asking a previously answered question. Okay, it's 4 years old. The equipment I am using is 4 years old and it's entirely possible the original poster would benefit by my contribution.

    JUST TRYING TO HELP, sorry I had to raise my voice.

  24. Member Seeker47's Avatar
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    Well, 4 years old post or not, it was of some at least academic interest to me. I have a few blank pieces of the DVD-RAM here, but was quite unaware that you can't find it anymore, except expensively in bulk ? (I think I bought mine at Fry's . . . but then they apparently stopped selling blank videotape awhile back, which was not much of a surprise, so if for some reason you needed any of that more recently you'd have to go looking elsewhere for that too. Excuse me, but I just have a certain nostalgic fondness for some older technologies. Of course, even the security monitor recorders have long since moved to using hard drives . . . . ) Anyway, wasn't the DVD-Ram particularly good for temp VRO stuff -- better than rewriteable DVD ?
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  25. I'm a Super Moderator johns0's Avatar
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    Thread closed,if you need to speak out for dvd-ram then open a new thread.
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