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  1. Member
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    Three or four months ago I bought my first camcorder, Sony Handycam DCR-HC28. I'm ready to move up in quality.

    I am looking for another used camcorder that I can find on ebay or amazon. I want something with mic in inputs so I can hook external microphones into the camera. Also a hot shoe.

    Format I want is still Mini DV. I'm not interested in Hi-Def yet. I do want improved color and video and something that will allow decent chroma-keying. The microphone input is most important and then video quality.

    As for price - I spent around $300 for my used Handycam. I'm looking to spend up to $500 and maybe $600.00

    Any suggestions?

    Thanks
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  2. Member edDV's Avatar
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    External mic with manual level control is hard to find in consumer DV camcorders. You should be able to afford a used Canon HDV format HV20/30 in that price range. It also shoots DV format and is especially good for wide DV. Plus it has all the needed audio and exposure features. Only downside is the hot shoe probably won't work with a Sony mic.
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    So if I wanted to jump from consumer cameras to entry level cameras what are some good ones to look for on eBay and what's the minimum I might find one going for? Can I find a used one for $700 or $800?
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  4. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by HoosierGuy View Post
    So if I wanted to jump from consumer cameras to entry level cameras what are some good ones to look for on eBay and what's the minimum I might find one going for? Can I find a used one for $700 or $800?
    The Sony VX2000/2100 were the best 4:3 DV prosumer cams but not as good as the HV20 for DV wide. The VX had excellent low light performance. I have the pro version PD-150/170 that added XLR 4 channel audio support. In that class and with similar 16:9 issues were the Canon GL1 and GL2.

    In general, 4:3 DV prosumer cams are rapidly coming down in price since most production has moved to 16:9. Expect these to have poor resale value in the future. Although the 4:3 cams had wide modes, the 16:9 frame came from inside the 4:3 sensor area.

    I'd shop Craigslist so you can inspect/test before you buy.
    Last edited by edDV; 20th May 2011 at 19:20.
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  5. Originally Posted by HoosierGuy View Post
    So if I wanted to jump from consumer cameras to entry level cameras what are some good ones to look for on eBay and what's the minimum I might find one going for? Can I find a used one for $700 or $800?
    if your budget is 700/$800 check the Canon VIXIA HV40.it shoots in both SD,and HD


    $699 Amazon.com
    http://www.amazon.com/Canon-VIXIA-HV40-Camcorder-Optical/dp/B001OI2Z4Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=U...5945300&sr=8-1



    $650 B&H (I bought a cam from them last year. excellent service)

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/597424-REG/Canon_3686B001_VIXIA_HV40_High_Definition.html


    Canon HV20, HV30 & HV40 User Forum

    http://www.hv20.com/forum.php
    Last edited by MJA; 20th May 2011 at 22:46.
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    When you look at modern cams and image quality, do you look at the sensor size like 2.96 Megapixel 1/2.7" CMOS? When I punch in Sony VX2000 on ebay and look at the pictures I see on the camera a big "3CCD" Do all modern camcorders have 3 CDDs? My Handycam has - Effective Sensor Resolution 340,000 pixels, Total Pixels 680,000 pixels, Optical Sensor Size 1/6". I assume you look at the sensor size, correct?
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  7. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by HoosierGuy View Post
    When you look at modern cams and image quality, do you look at the sensor size like 2.96 Megapixel 1/2.7" CMOS? When I punch in Sony VX2000 on ebay and look at the pictures I see on the camera a big "3CCD" Do all modern camcorders have 3 CDDs? My Handycam has - Effective Sensor Resolution 340,000 pixels, Total Pixels 680,000 pixels, Optical Sensor Size 1/6". I assume you look at the sensor size, correct?
    Some immediate thoughts.

    3xCCD 1/3" is a big plus. None of the wavy distortion (rolling shutter) present with single CMOS sensors during pans.

    3xCCD is also a more pure color separation than Bayer pattern single CMOS sensors.

    Sensor size determines low light sensitivity but there are may variables. Single sensors need to be larger since the Bayer pattern splits the light into separate color pixels. 3x sensors depend on the prism for color light split from primary green to red and blue sensors.

    To sort this out look at the higher price broadcast cams. They opt for 3x CCD large (1/3 to 2/3") sensors and large lenses for in the field low light performance. Budget movie type shooters who can control light like larger single 35mm CMOS Bayer sensors mainly to allow use of narrow depth of field camera lenses. These people are after the film look and can control the environment. Generally they shoot 24p hoping to get picked up for the Sundance competition.
    Last edited by edDV; 22nd May 2011 at 03:06.
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    Lets say I wanted to shoot ads to put on youtube for small businesses. Also shoot to put video on DVD and TV for other projects. If I had to pick a camera which should it be - a used Sony VX2000 or a new Canon HDV format HV20/30? Any other suggestions?

    I only want to edit standard DV since it's probably all my computers can handle right now.
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  9. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by HoosierGuy View Post
    Lets say I wanted to shoot ads to put on youtube for small businesses. Also shoot to put video on DVD and TV for other projects. If I had to pick a camera which should it be - a used Sony VX2000 or a new Canon HDV format HV20/30? Any other suggestions?

    I only want to edit standard DV since it's probably all my computers can handle right now.
    The VX-2000/2100 (PD-150/170 pro version) was an excellent 720x480 4:3 DV cam. It has a nice lens, 3xCCD, the Sony knee from the pro cams and is well supported for accessories. The down side is relatively poor 16:9 performance. This is because the sensors are native 4:3 and "wide" mode is achieved by cutting vertical resolution. So you really need to think through the standard def and 16:9 issues. I still have a PD-150 that I use for utility purposes but I mostly shoot 16:9 HD now.
    http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/assets/files/micro/xdcamex/solutions/Avoiding_Over-exposure.pdf

    I also have a small Canon HV20. It does a lot of things well for the price point and is native 16:9 in both HDV and DV mode. It lacks the knee but does have the zebra pattern to show areas of overexposure. Low light performance is noisy vs. the PD-150.

    If you can live with 4:3 DV, there are many used SD pro cams out there, many in great condition and low in price. I almost bought a used JVC GY-DV5000U for $1500 (originally >$6000). A wonderful camera* but suffers the same 4:3 sensor issues. The native 16:9 DV7000U series sell for much more used.
    http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/specs.jsp?model_id=MDL101367&feature_id=03

    A used 4:2:2 SD broadcast cam makes a great studio cam for product shots or green screen. They are cheap so long as you can plug them in. Batteries are killer expensive.

    So let me know your budget and shooting environment.


    *The GY-DV5000U has three 1/2" CCDs and a nice Fujinon bayonet mount lens.
    Last edited by edDV; 8th Jun 2011 at 08:38.
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    My budget - I'm willing to go up to one thousand. I was thinking of getting a used camera on amazon/ebay or wherever.

    My purpose - I want to start offering to do short commercials to put on youtube for small businesses. I found a source to get good voice-overs for any scripts I write. I can do my own fonts. The commercials will be very simple two minute or so videos and I may only use still pictures more than video. I'm actually thinking of hitting the churches, particularly the big ones, and offering to create simple but nice ads and put them on youtube. As a second use I want the camera good enough to record weddings.
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  11. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by HoosierGuy View Post
    My budget - I'm willing to go up to one thousand. I was thinking of getting a used camera on amazon/ebay or wherever.

    My purpose - I want to start offering to do short commercials to put on youtube for small businesses. I found a source to get good voice-overs for any scripts I write. I can do my own fonts. The commercials will be very simple two minute or so videos and I may only use still pictures more than video. I'm actually thinking of hitting the churches, particularly the big ones, and offering to create simple but nice ads and put them on youtube. As a second use I want the camera good enough to record weddings.
    If you can find a VX-2000 for $1000 it will give a more professional appearance. It used to be the standard wedding cam but now, most will be expecting 16:9 HD.

    So at that budget, and with the DV format requirement I think we have narrowed choice to the Canon HV40 $649. Use the rest of the money for a good tripod, external mics and a basic lighting kit. You will need a good voice over mic.
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/597424-REG/Canon_3686B001_VIXIA_HV40_High_Definition.html
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    If I would go the Canon way I would then want to upgrade my computer so I could edit HD. So far on my laptop I can edit DV just fine with Sony Vegas Studio. Granted I've not rendered any two hour films, but still I feel it can do the job.
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  13. Member edDV's Avatar
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    I don't see your computer specs. HDV (1440x1080 MPeg2) editing is best done on a Core2 Duo or better but when necessary I've struggled along with a Pentium 4 2.8GHz. I started editing DV with Premiere on a P III 700 MHz back around 1999.
    Last edited by edDV; 9th Jun 2011 at 05:34.
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  14. Member budwzr's Avatar
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    You're making a big mistake. Buy a new computer first. Don't buy oldhat, that's a waste.

    One of the Kodak flip-type cams has an audio jack. You can set these cameras on mic stands or tripods and do multicam by yourself. You can do stuff you'll never be able to do with a big camera.

    Get more experience, and work free for now, to get that experience.
    Last edited by budwzr; 9th Jun 2011 at 11:43.
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