Converting from Apple Intermediate Codec

[carbs]

Hi

I am in the process of moving from iMovie to Adobe Premiere Elements on PC. I have now learned that all of my footage is stuck in iMovie in Apple Intermediate Codec on my Mac, so I have to convert it to be able to use it on a PC. I can play the files on my PC, but only get sound - no picture. Luckily, I still have my Mac, but the question is: Which format/codec/settings should I choose for converting?

My footage falls in two categories:

1) Captured to iMovie from a JVC Everio hard disk camcorder. According to QuickTime movie info, the properties for these files in my iMovie library are:
Apple MPEG-2 SD Camcorder Video, 720 x 576 (768 x 576), Millions, 16-bit Integer (Little Endian), Left, 48,000 kHz, 16-bit Integer (Little Endian), Right, 48,000 kHz - 25 FPS, appr. 10 Mbit/s. Some of these files I have shot in 16:9, they only differ by being 720 x 576 (1024 x 576).

2) Captured to iMovie from a Panasonic DMC-GF1 (AVCHD Lite). According to QuickTime movie info, the properties for these files in my iMovie library are:
Apple Intermediate Codec, 960 x 540, Millions, 16-bit Integer (Little Endian, Stereo (L R), 48,000 kHz - 25 FPS, appr. 21 Mbit/s.

I have experimented with a lot of different formats and settings, but I am unsure what to choose to get a minimum of quality loss, files of a sensible size and to have the best possible files to view and edit in the future. I don't plan to do any kind of advanced editing, mostly cutting away some scenes and splicing together the best ones.

Now I know I should have kept the original files, but this is what I have ...

I hope all this makes more sense to somebody here than to me - and I would appreciate any help.

Thank you.

[vhelp]

1. bring the file over to the pc side
2. d/l ffmpeg
3. in a dos box (or console mode) type in
4. ffmpeg -i "apple_file1.mov" -vcodec copy -acodec copy -y "new_file1.mp4"
5. ffmpeg -i "apple_file2.mov" -vcodec copy -acodec copy -y "new_file2.mp4"
6. ffmpeg -i "apple_file3.mov" -vcodec copy -acodec copy -y "new_file3.mp4"

if necessary, add the folder directory name for each filename.
if you have a bunch you can string (batch) them like so if you (rename each file) and give an index number. i'm sure you can figure out the rest or enhance the steps better.

[Cornucopia]

vhelp, that may not help much. ffmpeg on MacOSX may have support for AIC (icod 4cc) but it doesn't look like ffmpeg on PC does (just check ffmpeg's wiki/documentation).

The 1st type of file mentioned by the OP is basically std MPEG2 in a QT/MOV wrapper, so I'd use MPEGStreamclip to remux it to std MPEG2 in an MPEG2 PS or TS container. That should work in Vegas/Premiere, etc.

The 2nd type, since you don't seem to have the original AVCHD clips, is just re-convert out from iMovie to either:
A. Uncompressed (HUGE files)
B. Animation codec at 100% quality setting(almost HUGE files)
C. Cineform codec (better)
D. A hardware capture codec that supports software encoding (Blackmagic, Aja, or AVID codecs) w/near-lossless (also better)

These should be decodable on any PC that has QT installed (and those codecs, of course).

Scott

[carbs]

Thank you for your reply.

But I'm afraid it is over my head ... If I follow your link to ffmpeg and further, I don't know what to install?

[carbs]

Thank you, Cornucopia.

The 1st type of file mentioned by the OP is basically std MPEG2 in a QT/MOV wrapper, so I'd use MPEGStreamclip to remux it to std MPEG2 in an MPEG2 PS or TS container. That should work in Vegas/Premiere, etc.

But in MPEG Streamclip, I don't see any option to 'remux' to MPEG2. There are some MPEG-options in the File-menu ('Convert to MPEG...', 'Convert to Headed MPEG...' and 'Convert to TS', among others) but they are greyed out. In 'Stream Info' in MPEG Streamclip it says: 'Video Tracks: 'm2v1', 720 x 576, 25 fps, 8.55 Mbps'. I don't know if that tells something? I have tried opening the files in VLC, but it fails, saying something like 'No appropriate decoding module, VLC doesn't support the format m2v1' (my translation from Danish).

The 2nd type, since you don't seem to have the original AVCHD clips, is just re-convert out from iMovie to either:
A. Uncompressed (HUGE files)
B. Animation codec at 100% quality setting(almost HUGE files)
C. Cineform codec (better)
D. A hardware capture codec that supports software encoding (Blackmagic, Aja, or AVID codecs) w/near-lossless (also better)

As far as I know, in iMovie I have to edit the clips into a movie to be able to export them. I would rather not have to do that, as I have a lot of clips, and very few of them are edited ...

But trying to export the clips from Finder with Quick Time 7 Pro, I still can't figure out what settings to choose. I have the choice of among other formats: 'Movie to Windows Media', 'Movie to AVI', 'Movie to DV Stream', 'Movie to Quick Time-movie'. And for each of these, I get access to different kinds of compression (=Codec?) and other settings.

As far as I can see, I should choose 'Movie to Quick Time-movie', which gives me access to 'compression types' like 'Animation', 'Avid DNxHD Codec', 'Avid Meridien Compressed', 'Avid Packed Codec', 'H.264', 'None' and many more (but no 'Cineform').

If this is the right track, could I chose the same format/codec for my 'type 1' files, if I can't 'demux' them from MPEG Streamclip?

Again, thank you for your help.

[Cornucopia]

I didn't expect MPEGStremclip to dim the MPEG options...

But it's quite unusual for MPEG video to be wrapped in an NON-MPEG container (like AVI, QT/MOV, ASF/WMV). So, I guess it's not an easily expected format to support.

For the mpg2 clip, you're probably better off using ffmpeg similar to what vhelp showed, although this thrad may be more informative for your actual clip type https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/327742-Demux-Quicktime-MOV-into-original-MPEG-2?p=2...52#post2030852.

As long as you put a clip in the timeline in iMovie, you should be able to export it, no need to actually edit (although, it's been a couple of years since I last used iMovie).

In QTPro, export to QTMovie - Animation (100%) or AVID DNxHD or None codec. Or you can use Cineform, but you would need to install Cineform first. You could do this with both types of clips if you had to, but you'd retain better quality doing the remux w/ ffmpeg mentioned above on those clips. (this is really the ONLY thing you can do with the AIC type clips).

...you're getting there...

Scott

[poisondeathray]

I think you need the quicktime mpeg2 component ($) installed in order for QT or mpegstreamclip to play nice with MOV wrapped MPEG2 video

I don't think 960x540 is a valid resolution for DNxHD . Maybe a reasonable size/quality tradeoff would be photo jpeg in mov at 95-100 quality setting

[Cornucopia]

Doh!
Now, why didn't I think of that? Yes, I'm pretty sure that's it.

Yea, DNxHD supports 1920x1080, 1280x720, and probably 1440x1080, but 960x540 is 1/4 of the 1920x1080 frame size, which makes it non-standard. And since that's NON-pro, it's most likely not supported. Could have a similar problem with Cineform and the aforementioned hardware codecs (aja, BM). Animation has no such problem.

Scott

[carbs]

I think you need the quicktime mpeg2 component ($) installed in order for QT or mpegstreamclip to play nice with MOV wrapped MPEG2 video

Actually, I do have the MPEG-2 Playback Component installed on my Mac ... I think I needed it before this version of iMovie in order to play back the clips from the Everio camcorder at all.

I don't think 960x540 is a valid resolution for DNxHD . Maybe a reasonable size/quality tradeoff would be photo jpeg in mov at 95-100 quality setting

I tried converting yesterday with several of the codecs I have mentioned above. And I did have problems with the resolution. I think with all the codecs I tried, exept Animation, my 'widescreen' footage was squeezed into something like 4:3 proportions. I didn't try photo jpeg, however.

/Carsten

[poisondeathray]

I tried converting yesterday with several of the codecs I have mentioned above. And I did have problems with the resolution. I think with all the codecs I tried, exept Animation, my 'widescreen' footage was squeezed into something like 4:3 proportions. I didn't try photo jpeg, however.

I think some of them may have dimension settings, make sure it's "same as source" , or explicitly set to your source values 960x540

As Scott says, Animation codec will work for sure at any resolution (I use it frequently for VFX stuff), but it will be converted to RGB, and the file size will be huge at 100% quality (lossless)

[carbs]

I think some of them may have dimension settings, make sure it's "same as source" , or explicitly set to your source values 960x540

Yes, they do have dimension settings. But what I put in these settings didn't seem to have any effect.

/Carsten

[poisondeathray]

what does quicktime movie inspector say about the exported file? or use mediainfo on pc, or mediainfo mac

are you doing this through imovie or quicktime ?

[carbs]

OK ... I have tried some different things now.

1) For my 'type 1' files, I have tried on my Mac to 'convert' them to MPEG through ffmpegx (I guess this is the same as ffmpeg, just with a GUI, isn't it?). I can't find anything called 'remux' as suggested by Cornucopia. No matter what size-settings I choose, the output is 720 x 576 (squeezed together from wide screen to 4:3) and not 1024 x 576 as my input file (I'm puzzled, though, because when I view the clip it is clearly 'wide screen', but ffmpegx tells me that the format of the input file is 720 x 576 - and Quick Time Movie Info tells me both, saying '720 x 576 (1024 x 576)'. Furthermore, the file size of the converted file is about half of the original file.

2) For my 'type 2' files, I have tried converting to photo jpeg with Quick Time Pro, as suggested by poisondeathray. The proportions are correct, but the file more than doubles in size when I choose maximum quality. Choosing medium to high, the size grows only a little.

I have tried converting to photo jpeg with the 'type 1' files as well. Again, the proportions get right, but here the quality drops clearly.

Hm ... I'm confused. Photo jpeg seems to be the easiest to handle if I want files not too huge and and footage that keep the proportions. But it is visible that the quality drops ...

/Carsten

[poisondeathray]

#1- this format uses non-square pixels , so the frame size is 720x576 , but the player "stretches" it upon playback to 1024x576. So everything is normal... EXCEPT - The file size is an issue though. It should be very close to the same size. Something is wrong .

I don't have access to a mac here, so I don't know what options to choose in ffmpegx. You might get better specific help in the mac subforum

If you know how to open a command prompt, the using ffmpeg commandline would be the best option (the ffmpeg build in ffmpegx is very outdated)


Quality/size is a tradeoff you have to make when re-encoding formats. Unless you copy the streams, but AIC isn't compatible (at all) on a PC, and MPEG2 in MOV is very incompatible - you have to convert it to something . If you have the MPEG2 quicktime component on the PC, it should open the type 1 files

[Cornucopia]

My footage falls in two categories:

1) Captured to iMovie from a JVC Everio hard disk camcorder. According to QuickTime movie info, the properties for these files in my iMovie library are:
Apple MPEG-2 SD Camcorder Video, 720 x 576 (768 x 576), Millions, 16-bit Integer (Little Endian), Left, 48,000 kHz, 16-bit Integer (Little Endian), Right, 48,000 kHz - 25 FPS, appr. 10 Mbit/s. Some of these files I have shot in 16:9, they only differ by being 720 x 576 (1024 x 576).

2) Captured to iMovie from a Panasonic DMC-GF1 (AVCHD Lite). According to QuickTime movie info, the properties for these files in my iMovie library are:
Apple Intermediate Codec, 960 x 540, Millions, 16-bit Integer (Little Endian, Stereo (L R), 48,000 kHz - 25 FPS, appr. 21 Mbit/s.

See where it says "720x576(768x576)"? That's Quicktime's cute way of saying you have 720x576 footage that, IF it were displayed to the same DAR, but with a PAR of 1:1 - which it doesn't - it would have (THIS) resolution. IOW, your 1st 720x576 stuff is DAR 4:3 with non-square PAR (standard, and to be expected for MPEG2). Your rarer footage is similar - 720x576 but with DAR of 16:9 and non-square PAR (also standard and to be expected). QT just is non-standard in how it explains it to you. Always has. STUPID and condescending if you ask me.
Similarly, you type 2 stuff being 960x540 is 1/4 1080framesize, so it likely IS a PAR of 1:1 and therefore, by calculation, obviously a DAR of 16:9.

I agree with poisondeathreay: If your original stuff was 25Mbps, so should your converted/remuxed stuff. If it isn't, you have an incorrect setting or 2 somewhere.

Yes, with QTPro+MPEG2component on a PC, you could directly open type 1 files, but you'd still have to convert them to something else, and QT's export options are so much more lacking in terms of features/options, speed and quality compared to other apps, I didn't really want to suggest that.

Scott

p.s.
You know, 960x540 is SO NON-STANDARD, I'm beginning to think that this is just a low-rez proxy that Apple came up with to pretend they supported AVCHD (but really didn't/couldn't).

[carbs]

Wow ... thank you, both of you.

I think I will have to do some more experimenting ... If I had known what I know now a few years back, I would never have used iMovie

[Cornucopia]

Yeah, it's funny how modern consumer cameras and modern consumer editing doesn't really mix well. Older, DV stuff - no problem. Pro stuff - no problem. In the middle - lots of problems.

And your problems are compounded on the Mac where options are limited. Heck, there's really only 4 NLE option available (Apple iMovie, Apple FCP, Adobe Premiere, AVID MC - of which, only iMovie is geared towards consumers/newbies).

Good luck,
Scott