Pinnacle problems

[higgins327]

Hi all!

I'm trying to digitize a bunch of old VHS tapes with a Pinnacle card. It's Pinnacle DV500 PLUS, I think (got it without a box and its name isn't written on the product! from year 2005 anyway). Says BlueBOX on the device.

I have Pinnacle software version 10 and some quick start version of Pinnacle 9, which seems a bit more lightweight, so, it's my preferred version. I've set an old rig up for capturing video. It's a 2.66 GHz Pentium 4 with 1GB DDR1 RAM and 128MB nVidia GeForce 6600 GT card. Win7 instead of XP aside, it complies not only with the minimum, but recommended requirements of Pinnacle 10. However, I'm perfectly willing to make it into an Ubuntu (or some other linux) rig, if that would somehow improve its capture performance.

Three major problems.
1) The captured file size is HUGE. It's like... 16 GB per hour when I pick the max quality. Is this normal?
2) The audio drifts off. It's okay at first, but the longer the recording is, the more and more it goes out of sync as it processes. I've had some success in fixing this via matching video and audio durations with VirtualDub, but given that the average VHS tape gives a whopping 40 GB avi file, the fixing process it rather cumbersome -- plus, it doesn't always work.
3) The file size remains large despite re-encoding. I use 1800 kbps XviD and 128 kbps LAME mp3, and I can't make 1 hour 20 minute video weigh less than 3,6GB. I'm not the most skilled encoder, but that's bad even for me. I also noticed that all the frames in the created avi are key frames. Maybe that's causing the size bloat?

I was recommended switching to another capture software, but that's the best I can conjure up with VirtualDub: http://vzaar.com/videos/722848 (the movie was on at completely random, LOL!)

As you can see, there's a lot of speedup and the quick movement isn't captured well either. Maybe the latter is a processor issue? Don't know. Completely at loss here.

[julitomg]

Pinnacle STUDIO software allows you to capture in different formats, wich one are you capturing with?, also what is your goal with your captured files? (burn DVDs, keeping them in HDD as .AVI files, internet uploading, etc..)...DV (I think they call it "full quality") is about 13Gb/Hr. but its friendlier when it comes to editing (just make sure you use the right field order), it can also capture in MPEG format (you may have found under capture properties that you can select VCD, SVCD, DVD and custom settings), and finally it should also provide you with the option to capture to AVI with the PICVideo m-jpeg codec (with adjustable bitrate whereas DV is fixed), you can get good results and smaller size files (again watch for field order issues)
I d suggest a few things:
- Go to pinnacle web site, seek, download and install updates for your Studio software (i.e 9.4x) as well as updated drivers for your card (in the capture window you should see the card model as detected by Studio)
- Capture video to a separate HDD (either internal or external), not to your "C" drive
- defrag your HDDs
- Close all other programs and apps (internet browser, games, etc..) when capturing as well as disabling screen saver.
Good luck

[higgins327]

Thanks for the reply!

DV (I think they call it "full quality") is about 13Gb/Hr.

That's what I use.

finally it should also provide you with the option to capture to AVI with the PICVideo m-jpeg codec (with adjustable bitrate whereas DV is fixed), you can get good results and smaller size files (again watch for field order issues)

I picked the most raw format as I thought it was less processor intensive and I plan to re-encode the files on a more powerful PC anyway.

- Go to pinnacle web site, seek, download and install updates for your Studio software (i.e 9.4x) as well as updated drivers for your card (in the capture window you should see the card model as detected by Studio)

I tried the software update within the program itself, but it said I have the latest one. I actually think that these updates aren't available anymore -- and I couldn't find them on Pinnacle site either. There has been no new video card driver releases since I last updated it.

- Capture video to a separate HDD (either internal or external), not to your "C" drive

I use a separate partition to save the files (not a separate drive though). I tried the external drive thing, but the USB 2.0 connection was too slow, I think.

- defrag your HDDs

The dedicated partition is basically empty and I move the big files to an external drive after ripping new stuff. I don't think it's a defrag issue.

- Close all other programs and apps (internet browser, games, etc..) when capturing as well as disabling screen saver.

No other software runs while ripping (within reason -- I don't kill idle system processes).

[ranchhand]

I have done a ton of work in Studio 10+ with the same basic setup you have now. It's a buggy program and reacts in different ways depending of the system it is on. From your system specs you should be able to run it. If possible, you might want to consider running it in XP simply because XP requires less system resources than W7 and runs faster on older machines. Just a thought, not necessarily a requirement. You definitely need 2 gig of RAM for your machine, 1 gig is going to cause your swap file to thrash the hard drive and slow you down. Video demands RAM, no question about it.
1) Yes, 16 gig/hour is not unusual if you are running hi-resolution assuming you are saving to mpeg2.
2) I never had problems with the audio, so I can't help you there.
3) I suspect that many of your problems are with the initial capture, which is screwing the conversion. When I captured I used a dedicated Hauppauge 250PVR capture card (now obsolete) and it converted from analog to mpeg2 flawlessly and fast. Audio was in sync. I never could get Studio 10 to import, so I just saved the conversion files to my HD and then dragged & dropped the files straight into the file screen in Studio and it worked great.

One thing I discovered through dozens of frustrating hours with vs.10: Studio does not play nice with other programs/processes running. I had wierd, random glitches, things refusing to work, etc. Then I tried a "clean environment"; I disconnected from the internet; shut down my antivirus; shut down my firewall; entered Task Manager and ended all non-essential running processes - there are a lot of them that Windows does not need in order to run. Suddenly Studio settled down, everything ran perfectly, and no more glitches. I imported my camcorder analog videos, converted to digital mpeg2, edited with menus, chapters, transition effects, etc. etc. and burned to DVD perfectly with no more problems. Also imported other WAVE soundtrack music and edited perfectly. No glitches or hiccups. Sorry for the long post, hope this helps.

[julitomg]

Its been getting harder and harder to locate Studio upgrades, especially since the aquisition by AVID, but I think here you can find what you need:
http://www.pinnaclesys.com/PublicSite/us/Products/Consumer+Products/Home+Video/Studio+...mode=documents

Your external drive should be Ok (maybe USB port not functioning in USB2 mode?, you should check it)

[higgins327]

Its been getting harder and harder to locate Studio upgrades, especially since the aquisition by AVID, but I think here you can find what you need:
http://www.pinnaclesys.com/PublicSite/us/Products/Consumer+Products/Home+Video/Studio+...mode=documents

Thanks! I'll apply the updates!

3) I suspect that many of your problems are with the initial capture, which is screwing the conversion. When I captured I used a dedicated Hauppauge 250PVR capture card (now obsolete) and it converted from analog to mpeg2 flawlessly and fast. Audio was in sync. I never could get Studio 10 to import, so I just saved the conversion files to my HD and then dragged & dropped the files straight into the file screen in Studio and it worked great.

Ah, so, you never used the Studio 10 to capture?

I just want the avi files on my HDD, so, the actual capture is the priority for me. I don't intend to add menus, chapters, effects, etc. If I have the raw capture, I can work on it with VirtualDub.

I titled this thread "Pinnacle" because I also use a Pinnacle capture card. I have no problems in dumping the buggy Pinnacle Studio and using something lightweight and slick for capturing instead -- though freeware would be immensely preferable.

[ranchhand]

Ah, so, you never used the Studio 10 to capture?

As I said in my post, I never could get Studio 10 to recognize my camcorder, even though that was was listed as a function. That's why I needed a card to capture my analog vids, convert to digital and create mpeg2's.

[higgins327]

Can you recommend a good capturing software? Preferably lightweight freeware?

[davexnet]

How about STOIK from the tools section here at videohelp.com

[julitomg]

Ah, so, you never used the Studio 10 to capture? As I said in my post, I never could get Studio 10 to recognize my camcorder, even though that was was listed as a function. That's why I needed a card to capture my analog vids, convert to digital and create mpeg2's.

I used to use Studio just for capture, no editing, no authoring. I had a Studio DeLuxe card wich I purchased basically because of its analog I/O as well as firewire. I could capture an analog source to DV and then edit the resulting files in my good old Premiere 6.5, you could adjust contrast, brightness, color and sound level during capture. If the captured material didnt need the maximum quality I could capture to PICVideo .avi files much smaller in size. I first had it in a Pentium 4 3.4 GHz HT rig, then in a 2.13 core2duo and with the extra processing power I could do MPEG 2 captures in real time without losing frames or sync issues.
I think it would be hard to make Studio recognize other than pinnacle cards (however it does recognize simple generic firewire cards with no problem but some of the useful options during capture will be greyed out)

[Backpain]

I have a pinnacle card using analog input. Instead of using pinnacle software to capture I use Scenalyzer. www.scenalyzer.com I have never had any type of out of sync problem of dropped frames of any kind. Great software

[higgins327]

It's a nightmare!

Scenalyzer doesn't recognize anything at all. STOIK is great, but records no sound (as input channel cannot be chosen, I tried both Pinnacle card and Creative soundcard inputs with no avail). iZE TV always reverts capture format 320x288 from whatever I set it to... and records no sound. CaptureFlux finds sound instantly, but doesn't recognize any video input...

I installed the updates on the Pinnacle Studio 9 (update for Pinnacle Studio 10 prompted that's it's incompatible with 10.1) and attempt to see if it improves anything.

[Backpain]

This may sound dumb, but did you install the drivers for the pinnacle card? and did you set Scenalyzer to analog input? I have the same setup for my card. Sorry if that didn't work for you. Maybe your pinnacle board is defective. The first one I got was and had to get a replacement from pinnacle under warr. Maybe try Studio 14 or 15. That seems to work OK as well for me also. Good luck.

[julitomg]

Hello again
A few things I´d consider (and excuse me if I´m repetitive about some):
-It is a Pinnacle card. For better or worse, therefore I´d stick with software either by the same company or known to be fully compatible and/or supported. The cards drivers design may prevent or recognize certain hardware features. Therefore, I´d uninstall any other program (Stoik, scenalizer, etc... as good as they may be or work for others)
-Your computer specs are certainly good for Studio , but could be a bit weak for Win7?...I think your rig would run more comfortably with XP (My Studio Plus card/Studio 9.4 ran in an XP machine and never had a problem, capturing anyway)...by the way, do you have the original drivers for your card? or is it just recognized by your O.S. and Studio as a firewire capture device (generic)?
-While it may or may not have an impact on your captures once you improve your system´s performance (or find the right software), you should check if your USB ports are actually working in USB2 mode and not USB1. It shouldn´t be "too slow" even with DV quality video.
-You say your card is the DV 500 plus?...as I recall, it was one of the first pinnacle cards to offer both firewire and analog I/O (after the miro line of cards cards but before the pure Studio ones, I know that because my brother used to have a Miro DC30 Plus in the late 90s), and if I remember correctly, the DV 500 cards included Adobe Premiere 6.x as well as some plug ins like Title Deko and the Video Spice Rack transitions. How about trying to get a good, used original Premiere 6.0 or 6.5 and see if it works with your card?, it shouldn´t be too expensive these days if you find it in eBay or simmilar sites.
-Finally, doing a quick search, I came across a couple of pages (in spanish though) where you can download drivers for your card...I haven´t downloaded them myself but if you accept the risk...
http://www.pinnaclesys.com/PublicSite/sp/Products/Consumer+Products/Home+Video/Express...ents&Display=1

http://www.solodrivers.com/driver/15409/Capturadoras-de-video/Pinnacle/DV500-DVD-DV500...44709/download

[higgins327]

This may sound dumb, but did you install the drivers for the pinnacle card?

I installed everything from the Studio software discs and I assumed they also included the drivers.

and did you set Scenalyzer to analog input?

Can you walk me through how to do that? I tried finding that from the options, but gave up eventually.

[higgins327]

-Your computer specs are certainly good for Studio , but could be a bit weak for Win7?...I think your rig would run more comfortably with XP (My Studio Plus card/Studio 9.4 ran in an XP machine and never had a problem, capturing anyway)...by the way, do you have the original drivers for your card? or is it just recognized by your O.S. and Studio as a firewire capture device (generic)?

I'll tell you once it stops recording -- then I'll also find out whether the software update helped on the sound issue. If all else fails, I'll downgrade to XP.

-While it may or may not have an impact on your captures once you improve your system´s performance (or find the right software), you should check if your USB ports are actually working in USB2 mode and not USB1. It shouldn´t be "too slow" even with DV quality video.

How can I find out what mode are my USB ports in?

-You say your card is the DV 500 plus?...as I recall, it was one of the first pinnacle cards to offer both firewire and analog I/O (after the miro line of cards cards but before the pure Studio ones, I know that because my brother used to have a Miro DC30 Plus in the late 90s), and if I remember correctly, the DV 500 cards included Adobe Premiere 6.x as well as some plug ins like Title Deko and the Video Spice Rack transitions. How about trying to get a good, used original Premiere 6.0 or 6.5 and see if it works with your card?, it shouldn´t be too expensive these days if you find it in eBay or simmilar sites.

I got the thing used. Just the card (two firewire sockets and an analog input/output, as you say), the BlueBox cable with the analog sockets, and the studio discs. I assumed the studio installs also included the drivers, but perhaps not. I only THINK it's a DV500 PLUS as I guess so from the images I've found on the net -- there are no product name anywhere on the hardware -- just some PN 40160734.

[higgins327]

P.S.
I also found these drivers: http://cdn.pinnaclesys.com/SupportFiles/Hardware_Installer/readmeHW10.htm

[julitomg]

P.S.
I also found these drivers: http://cdn.pinnaclesys.com/SupportFiles/Hardware_Installer/readmeHW10.htm

Ok...when you open Studio, go to "Capture", open "settings" and you´ll find Set Up Options; there you should see the name of your card listed as a source for capturing. What does Studio call it? I remember Studio correctly identified my Studio Deluxe card with that name but after I upgraded the card´s driver (from the same page you mention here), it started listing it as a Studio 700 PCI (wich was the new name they gave it after they discontinued the Deluxe one but was basically the same)

[higgins327]

It says "Pinnacle Studio Deluxe 2".

Under device manager, I can see both a "PCI input device" with a yellow warning sign (I have only three PCI cards -- a Creative sound card, which shows up, and an Ethernet card, which also shows up, so, I'm assuming it must be the Pinnacle).... However, there's also a "Pinnacle AV/DV 2" under sound&video entry in device manager.

P.S.
Sound is still out of sync. I'll probably need to downgrade to XP and see what happens.

[julitomg]

Ok, since you seem to have about the same card as the one I had...

It says "Pinnacle Studio Deluxe 2".

Under device manager, I can see both a "PCI input device" with a yellow warning sign (I have only three PCI cards -- a Creative sound card, which shows up, and an Ethernet card, which also shows up, so, I'm assuming it must be the Pinnacle).... However, there's also a "Pinnacle AV/DV 2" under sound&video entry in device manager.

...I would download the file listed for the Studio Deluxe (version 2)/700-PCI...the file that says 10.1.0.238 (Bender) and excute it...it is the upgraded driver and it could take away the yellow warning sign in Devide Manager....

P.S.
I also found these drivers: http://cdn.pinnaclesys.com/SupportFiles/Hardware_Installer/readmeHW10.htm

If you downgrade to XP, I´d suggest you remove the capture card from the MoBo (so when windows installs it doesn´t confuse it with a generic firewire card and hence the yellow sign), keep your motherboard (also ethernet and soundcard) drivers at hand (and while it doesn´t have any impact on capturing/editing/encoding, It wouln´t hurt to download NVidia´s latest drivers for you graphics card)..then, after everything is properly installed, you put back the pinnacle card and when the O.S. asks for drivers (or even if it doesn´t), install the Bender driver, then you proceed to install the Studio sofware (it came in three or four disks, but only the first two have the program files, the rest are samples and demos of other programs), finally the 9.43 upgrade (or 10.xx if you prefer that version)

[higgins327]

Yes, I contacted the original owner of the card and it's indeed PCI-700.

I already downgraded, but didn't take out the card while doing so. Then I installed latest nVidia drivers, that very same Bender driver you pointed, then the Studio 9 and the upgrades. I was amazed that the Creative sound card was recognised automatically, so, I haven't put on dedicated drivers for that -- I thought I should, but it seems to work just fine and correct device names are displayed.

The performance boost was remarkable and I'm ripping right now to see whether this fixed the sound issue.

[julitomg]

Excellent!...Good luck