My Computer Project = frustration

[jollyjohn]

G'day
This thread is an update to my thread https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/332254-Value-ram

I received the parts and put the PC together. I'm taking it very easy as I had eye surgery last Thursday.

The BIOS comes OK, I selected DVD drive as first boot option and started installation of Windows 7 Ultimate 64. When it comes to "Installing Services" runs for about 40 seconds and the PC reboots. It comes to "Installing Services" again and then a message "an unexpected restart has occurred or an unexpected error has occurred. Windows cannot continue installing. Restart computer and restart installation" (Or something like that) Then it would loop over and over.

I may have done something wrong or not done something that I don't know.

I tried three different DVDs with W7 Including one successfully installed in an IDE drive on another computer. I tried to run that drive in the IDE but it won't even spin it.

I also tried installing WXP Pro SP3. It installed but the PC reboots after a few seconds and will keep looping from the post to Windows logo and reboot.

F3-10666CL9D-8GBRL (ram)

E6500 (CPU)

CX-430 (PSU)

Asus P5G41C-M-LX (MB)

Nest step would be a con of petrol and a box of matches.


I would be grateful for any help.


John

[DB83]

Dull question I know but have you formatted your HDD ?

[jagabo]

Go to the BIOS and select the Safe mode, Default mode -- whatever the most conservative settings are called. Also check the CPU temps while you're there.

Although it's pretty useless, enable the BIOS's full memory test (ie, disable the quick memory test). It might turn up something.

Go back and verify that the memory sticks are properly seated. Any add in cards too.

Remove any add-in cards you can boot without. You can add them back later.

Go through the BIOS and disable everything you can live without for the time being -- serial ports, parallel ports, RAID controllers, onboard audio and video, Network adapters, etc. Once you have a working system you can reenable those devices one by one and Windows PnP will detect them.

[Nelson37]

I would disconnect everything possible, boot to the BIOS and just sit there for an hour or two, monitoring temps.

This working IDE drive from another PC, that did not spin up, HOW are you verifying this? Many modern drives are difficult to detect when running by sound or feel. Was the drive recognized in the BIOS? Or the install disk? IF a KNOWN GOOD drive is non-functional in this PC, you've got a bad PS, MOBO, or cables. This would be a quickly, easily repeatable error and if verified should become a focus of your testing. The cables and power supply could be easily swapped.

[nic2k4]

Checked Asus memory support for your board and I didn't see your memory on there. In fact I only saw one type of 4 Gig DIMM. May not mean anything as those lists aren't updated often, but ...

One question, did you install the memory in the black slots? One thing to try, install only one DIMM and if you still can't get anywhere, go in the BIOS and raise the memory voltage. RTFM for more info on that. The BIOS usually sets the voltage off the values stored in the DIMM SPD chip, but that doesn't always work right. Some boards prefer to downgrade the memory clock to maintain the low voltage...

While in there, check the system health monitor, are the reported voltages good. Values that are off by more than .2V are suspicious, you can check the 3.3 to 12 Volt values off the 24 pin power connector while it's on the motherboard, to confirm. Then it may be a bad power supply or just too small (apparently the 12V rail on that PSU is a little short on oompf).

[jollyjohn]

I installed W7 on another PC on an IDE drive, I made an image of it with Snapshot and installed it in the SATA drive. At the end of the installation gave me a message The disk is not a boot disk. The HD may be corrupt. (something like that). The image installation in the SATA completed the with the same files and folders as the IDE drive. although the two drives are from different MBs I have read you can install windows on adifferent PC, and when you install the HD on the trouble PC windows will replace the necessary drivers. I haven't done it yet. As I said before I'm taking it very slowly, as my eye still hurts after surgery.

If that didn't work I'll buy a new HDD.

All the parts are new, except the box, and optical drive. Ram is 8GB.

Thanks to those that replied.

John

[Bjs]

I made an image of it with Snapshot and installed it in the SATA drive

When you involve transferring the image from one system to another you can get burnt quick smart if they are not using the same mother board and processor type.

Certain values are unique and used as part of the activation system

1: Bios string
2: Hard drive serial
3: Network adapter mac address

With these in the mix it's doomed, anything prior to xp you can swap but since xp, no.

If you had two dell gx270's, os loaded on one, imaged and loaded on the other then this is possible, but not what your doing.

-----------------

Take everything out of the box and bench test using minimal hardware, bios to system defaults, set mem timings as required (do not use auto). Reboot and re-enter bios, watch temps over next 30 minutes.

Drives:

If using IDE units set hd as master and dvdrom as slave. There are occasions where drives set to CS mode can trigger all sorts of weird problems on different motherboard models.

----------------

Should similar issue re-occur through os reinstall, substitute psu for a 500watt unit. Yours is what they call entry level unit.

If the hard drive used during the install has been used previously you should test it thoroughly. Even if smart attributes say's it's healthy don't take it on face value and don't use the manufacturers tools either as there rubbish.

Connect it internally in another system and install Active @ Hard Disk Monitor

This utility will show you the raw read and spin up times ... if their not better than 80% then forget loading a twitchy os such as vista / windows 7 ... xp you might get away with.

PS: DDR3 is for black slots ... DDR2 is for the blue slots ... on that motherboard.

[jagabo]

I have read you can install windows on adifferent PC, and when you install the HD on the trouble PC windows will replace the necessary drivers.

You can sometimes do that, even with very different hardware. But not always. I would not recommend it except as a last resort. You have a lot of other troubleshooting options available to you until then.

When you involve transferring the image from one system to another you can get burnt quick smart if they are not using the same mother board and processor type.

Certain values are unique and used as part of the activation system

1: Bios string
2: Hard drive serial
3: Network adapter mac address

With a fresh install activation isn't a problem. Just don't activate until after the new drive is up and running. Win7 will run for a month without activation.

[Nelson37]

What you read about the install on another PC was wrong.

Also, you describe two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT scenarios with regard to my question about the IDE hard drive not spinning up. Without accurate information, it is not only very frustrating but totally impossible to diagnose and rectify your problem.

[jollyjohn]

What you read about the install on another PC was wrong.

Also, you describe two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT scenarios with regard to my question about the IDE hard drive not spinning up. Without accurate information, it is not only very frustrating but totally impossible to diagnose and rectify your problem.

G'day Nelson

I have two Acer Aspire T300, MB L4S5MG/651, computers exactly the same, their MBs does not support SATA. One broke down and replaced MB, CPU, and PSU. Compatible with 64 architecture and SATA. I tried, unsuccessfully, to install Windows 7 ultimate 64 SP1, Windows 7 ultimate 64 no SP. Windows 7 Ultimate 32, On the, now, Asus PC, then I tried to run an IDE HDD with Windows 7 from the Acer PC. on the Asus through the IDE. It wasn't recognized in the BIOS and it didn't even spin. I know that because it's a Seagate Barracuda 40GB, quite noisy and runs fine on the Acer.

Then I tried to install WXP SP3 on the SATA HDD on the Asus. It installed but it rebooted and after it gets to the post it keeps rebooting.



Regards and Thanks

John
I'm buying a new SATA HDD and give it another go. Any kind would you guys recommend? Is Seagate OK?

[DB83]

Buying a new HDD may not solve anything. Did you not say that you imaged another installation on to this HDD ?. Was the HDD recognised by the bios when the PC was turned on ?

I know I am coming back to this point again, and I do not know how a Win7 installation works so I can only refer to a XP install but when you install that on a new install/HDD the very first thing it does is to format the drive and create the bootable partition.

I would also check ALL the bios settings for the HDD installation.

Someone with more knowledge of 64bit systems would be able to answer this query. Your XP install was 32bit or 64bit?. Would a 32bit OS work with a 64bit cpu?

But if you are going to buy a new HDD then I would suggest Western Digital.

[jagabo]

I know I am coming back to this point again, and I do not know how a Win7 installation works so I can only refer to a XP install but when you install that on a new install/HDD the very first thing it does is to format the drive and create the bootable partition.

Win7 is the same as XP in this regard.

Your XP install was 32bit or 64bit?. Would a 32bit OS work with a 64bit cpu?

Both 32 and 64 bit Windows can be installed on 64 bit CPUs.

[gregalan]

Have you tried this ?

-----------------

Take everything out of the box and bench test using minimal hardware, bios to system defaults, set mem timings as required (do not use auto). Reboot and re-enter bios, watch temps over next 30 minutes.

Drives:

If using IDE units set hd as master and dvdrom as slave. There are occasions where drives set to CS mode can trigger all sorts of weird problems on different motherboard models.

----------------

It definitely sounds like some sort of hardware problem.

Since the optical drive is not new I would try a new optical drive, even though it most likely isn't the problem they're very inexpensive these days.


Are you sure the cpu and heat sink are installed properly ?

You may need to set the ram timings and voltage manually on that board when using the 1333 ram.

[jollyjohn]

G'day
I did imaged an IDE drive with W7 32 from the Acer PC onto a SATA HD but I haven't tested it on the Asus 64 PC as advised above by Bjs and jagabo.

I'll get another DVD drive and another HDD and try before testing the installed image onthe ASUS.

I'll tell you some more in acouple of days.

John

[jman98]

jollyjohn - I did a recent PC build and had some nightmarish issues. One of my biggest problems was that absolutely none of the documents I had, not my motherboard manual, not my case manual, stressed how critical it is to use spacers between the motherboard and my case. I even got a guy I respect on hardware issues to double check my work and he didn't even think about it. In desperation I found some information on the internet that talked about things to check if your motherboard wouldn't POST. One of them was "Did you put in the spacers?" It seems from my limited experience that this often gets overlooked. Weird problems can happen if your motherboard touches metals parts of your case.

Another issue I had was using unreliable SATA cables and replacing the cables fixed some other serious problems I had.

[jagabo]

Yes, you must always use standoffs.

http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-STANDOFFM3-Brass-Standoffs-Pack/dp/accessories/B00213KL62

Otherwise the pins on the back of the motherboard will short against the metal of the case. But the problems with this are usually much more severe than the Windows install crashing halfway through.

[gregalan]

Yes, you must always use standoffs.

http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-STANDOFFM3-Brass-Standoffs-Pack/dp/accessories/B00213KL62

Otherwise the pins on the back of the motherboard will short against the metal of the case. But the problems with this are usually much more severe than the Windows install crashing halfway through.

Not always.
Some cases have dimpled standoffs built in, with dimpled standoffs you can't use the screw in type standoffs the MoBo won't be positioned correctly.

[TBoneit]

Sounds like hardware. Using another computer download the ISO cdrom image for the brand of hard drive, and a memory tester. I'm guessing bad motherboard or bad memory or bad power supply. Eliminate most things pull the motherboard, Set it, the optical drive, and a hard drive and the power supply up on a non conducting surface. Go into the Bios setup program's hardware monitor and look at temperatures and voltages.

[redwudz]

Without dimples or standoffs, usually the rear access ports for the MB won't line up either. If the MB wiring touches the case, you can easily fry the MB and sometimes the power supply. Don't use insulators either as those standoffs also help supply the grounds for the MB.

To reply about Seagate HDDs, not my favorite at the moment, but most users have no problems with them. Western Digital and Samsung seem to work well.

Good luck and I hope you solve your problems.

[gregalan]

From what I've been able to find out the Acer Aspire T300 has a 200W power supply, if you didn't replace the power supply that could very likely be your problem.
You should have at least a 400W power supply for that mobo/cpu/mem combo.

Not to mention most factory PSUs are pretty crappy most of the time.

[Nelson37]

All Righty, then. So a functioning, KNOWN GOOD IDE hard drive from another PC, with an easily detectable spin-up, was not recognized in the BIOS of the new PC and did not even appear to power up. As a double-check, put the drive back in the old PC and verify that it still works.

Now, at that point, you DO NOT need a new hard drive of any kind. You have a hardware fault, and one that is verified to be something other than the drive.

Lets verify that the drive jumper was set to master, and it was the only drive on the cable. If this was not done, make it so and test again.

With that verified, next step is to disconnect the DATA cable while leaving power on and test for spin-up. If not, you have a bad power supply. If it does, test again with a DIFFERENT data cable. If that fails, then you have a problem with the mobo IDE connector which means you need a new motherboard.

Focus on the easily repeatable, unmistakeable error point. There are many, many things that can cause an OS install to fail. There are very, very few things which will cause a working drive not to power up.

[jollyjohn]

[QUOTE=Nelson37

With that verified, next step is to disconnect the DATA cable while leaving power on and test for spin-up. If not, you have a bad power supply. If it does, test again with a DIFFERENT data cable. If that fails, then you have a problem with the mobo IDE connector which means you need a new motherboard.

[/QUOTE]

The IDE drive with W7 works fine on the Acer PC, but when I try to run it on the Asus on the IDE power and data cables it doesn't work, however, the optical drive works fine connected to the same cables, not at the same time, obviously.

I read on the MB manual that the minimum power needed is 400W any less would cause instability. With drives and other tings rimming 430W I don't think would be sufficient power. I decided to put a bigger PSU. Can you help me decide?

Antec EarthWatts 650 $99.00

Antec TruePower TP-550 $105.00

Corsair GS-600 $105.00

I also read, in another forum, someone could not install W7, some files were mot copying and missing from the installation. He changed the optical drive and problem solved.

Optical drives
IDE Samsung / Pioneer / LiteOn 35 / 40 / 40
SATA Samsung /LG / LiteOn / Sony / Pioneer-219L 35/35/35/35/40

Which one should I go for? For some reason I don't like anything Sony.

Thanks

John

[usually_quiet]

When I initially built my current PC, I used 2 IDE HDDs from my old PC. I used the former boot drive as the master and the former storage drive as the slave. As I recall, I did a full reformat of the boot drive (as a boot drive) prior to installing Vista. I installed the master first, and after successfully installing Vista, I installed the data storage drive.

Check the jumpers to see if the IDE HDD drive you are testing with is set up as a master or as a slave. It should be jumpered as the master. Check that the IDE cable connection are you using is the one at the end of the cable. Finally, it should be formatted as a boot drive and empty.

[jagabo]

I read on the MB manual that the minimum power needed is 400W any less would cause instability. With drives and other tings rimming 430W I don't think would be sufficient power.

A 430 Watt Corsair PSU is almost certainly sufficient with the setup you outlined (unless you are using some monster graphics card). Have you tried any of the troubleshooting steps everyone has outlined?

[budz]

Get the Corsair 600 watt power supply and a Sony or LG SATA dvd burner. The LG & SONY are the better DVD burners at the moment. Pioneer is crappy now and the ASUS is just a rebadged LITEON drive. The SAMSUNG is so so.....if you want a cheapo then buy the LITEON.

The last few builds I did the mobo manuals all recommended using a ps of 400 watts or more. I used 550 watt Corsair power supplies. That ASUS ide cable could be flaky so you could use another IDE 80 wire cable to see if that works.....Just my 2 cents!

[Nelson37]

OK, did I say to test with power and data, as you did, or did I say to DISCONNECT DATA and test with power only, as you apparently did not.

Did I ask if the data and power cables which apparently are part of a bad connection functioned on an optical drive? No, I did not, because I don't care, there are reasons why, and I'm not going to explain it to you now.

Did I not make it clear that "it does not work" is insufficient information for diagnostic analysis, something more definite and clear is needed, such as "no indication the unit is receiving power, not recognized in BIOS, windows fails to boot", etc. "It does not work" is not very useful.

I would not replace the power supply at this time because you have not yet properly ISOLATED and IDENTIFIED the power supply as the problem. The data cable was not removed as instructed. Functioning connection to an optical drive is insufficient for this purpose. Power and data requirements are completely different.

Now, assuming you get that done and don't require a diagram, I would go with the corsair among those listed purely on brand name. Don't know pricing in Australia but those seem awful high. I can get a 650W CoolerMaster for about $60.00.

About what you are reading elsewhere. At one time or another, just about everything that is possible to go wrong has happened to somebody, somewhere. That does not mean that it is happening to you, now. There is, so far, ABSOLUTELY ZERO indication that there is anything whatsoever wrong with your optical drive.

[jagabo]

The OP appears to have no interest in following anybody's advice.

[DB83]

The OP appears to have no interest in following anybody's advice.

And appears to be making quite illogical conclusions :

Example: The optical drive with cable worked in another machine but does not work in the new one so the optical drive must be bad. Gotta change it then.

[budz]

The OP appears to have no interest in following anybody's advice.

And appears to be making quite illogical conclusions :

Example: The optical drive with cable worked in another machine but does not work in the new one so the optical drive must be bad. Gotta change it then.

The IDE cable could just not work in the new pc....I've seen that happen before.....I know cause I used to be a DVD Burner whore!
Easiest would be to buy a new 80 wire ide cable....if that doesn't work then buy another dvd burner....also if the mobo has via chipset as the controller that could also cause conflicts.....if it uses nvidia chipset controllers gotta download the latest drivers from nvidia website and not the mobo manufacturer.....so with that all said.....hopefully the OP will respond soon....

[jollyjohn]

G'day

I have followed all advice given and I'm really grateful for that.

The new machine, Asus, has a new power supply and came with a brand new IDE 80 wire cable, that is the one I've been using with the optical drive to install W7 64. It works fine until it gets to "Installing Services",the PC reboots and goes to "Installing Services" again, but this time it gives me a message, The PC unexpectedly restarted or an unexpected error occurred and cannot continue installation, restart PC to continue installation. And then it loops into that for ever.

The IDE HDD With W7 32 Working in the Acer PC is the one that does not work in the new machine, the Asus. It's jumped as master and connected to the same new IDE cable and nothing else, no slave drive on it. It wont spin the drive. That could be dew to the two different MBs, that doesn't worry me much.

I bought a Corsair 600 PSU and I'm waiting on an order for a new LG optical drive.

If I'm not answering all your posts is because I'm having difficulty reading and and using my eye sight after surgery. I'm very sorry that some of you are upset or thinking I'm ignoring the advice given. I treasure all suggestions and guidance as I'm learning and other people following this thread could be learning, too.

Fondest Regards

John