Need Alternative To Roxio

[mlb32704]

Hello all:

Newbee to the forum, video novice, long time Roxio user for all things audio and video. Over the years, their products have gone from bad to worse, I literally cannot even install Roxio 2011.

I use Roxio for the following:

1.) Capturing of video from a handheld Panasonic camera that uses...mini-tapes?
2.) Savings of those video files onto hard disk in MPEG-2 format. When Roxio works correctly, it allows you to save in DV AVI format but the files are exponentially larger and I don't have the space to keep doing that.
3.) Occasionally, I trim sections of whole tape files to get at one particular scene or segment, for either emailing or posting to my SmugMug account or the like.
4.) Occasionally, I burn DVDs to be played in a plain old DVD player.

That's about it for video. Nothing fancy, no editing, authoring, anything else.

But I also use Roxio to - burn audio CDs, burn data CDs and DVDs and the like.

I am looking for an alternative, or set of alternatives, that will do these very basic functions. I am trying very hard to get rid of Roxio but can't seem to find anything out there. All roads seem to point to Nero, but I know nothing about Nero, having used Roxio for all of these years.

I am open to anything and everything. Roxio 2011 cost me about $70, not looking to pay a lot more than that.

Thanks in advance for your assistance.

[lacywest]

I use a lot of different programs to edit play videos and same goes for burning stuff to DVDs.

I stopped using Roxio a long time ago ... years ago ... and use Nero ... instead ... but only for certain things ... mostly I use Nero Express for burning files to DVDs ... not for buring DVD movies.

I use CloneDVD for burning DVD movies to DVD.

[jman98]

I've been pretty strongly negative about Roxio for almost a decade now. Their products have always been subpar. Nero is a jack of all trades, master of none, but it's better at what it does than Roxio. If you want an all in one program you're either going to have to use Nero or use a bunch of different programs to accomplish the same task. I have no experience at all in getting video off a camcorder onto a PC but Nero can do the other tasks you talk about for sure.

[yoda313]

I'd suggest imgburn for disc burning personally.

For trimming if they are all mpeg use mpg2cut2.

If they are dv tapes use windv via firewire - that should take care of one and two - correction that would be dv-avi only - you would need a capture device other than firewire to capture in mpeg2 - you can get basic ones dirt cheap with a/v inputs for mpeg2 capturing.

So three free programs to do all four things you want Can't beat that.

[usually_quiet]

I'd add the following to Yoda's list: AVStoDVD. It can convert DV to DVD-compliant MPEG-2 if you prefer not to buy a MPEG-2 capture device. It can also create the files needed for a playable DVD with a simple menu or no menu from either DV or MPEG-2 video, and can even burn the DVD files to disc with ImgBurn.

[yoda313]

I'd add the following to Yoda's list: AVStoDVD. - if you prefer not to buy a MPEG-2 capture device.

I would have mentioned that but that would be post processing. It didn't seem like the poster wanted that.

Actually there are capture devices that do direct to disc capturing. I have an older pinnacle usb stick that does that. I'm sure the more current versions also do - I don't think pinnacle still makes those types of capture devices. Though you can get just about any that will do dvd really inexpensively online at places like ebay or even new at newegg or tigerdirect.

If you want to go old school and have an available pci slot look for a hauappuge pvr 250 or 350. I used to have a 250 model and it worked great with direct mpeg2 encoding. Record to mpeg2 then simply author the file right away. The only processing time is dependent on how complex your menu is - no menu will be quickest of course - motion menus will take much much longer depeneding on how many you do.

But of course if you do get a mpeg2 capture device you can still use the previously mentioned avstodvd for making your dvds from the mpeg2 files without extra processing aside from the proper structure and any menus you create - plus of course chapter creation if so desired.

[usually_quiet]

I would have mentioned that but that would be post processing. It didn't seem like the poster wanted that.

Actually there are capture devices that do direct to disc capturing. I have an older pinnacle usb stick that does that. I'm sure the more current versions also do - I don't think pinnacle still makes those types of capture devices. Though you can get just about any that will do dvd really inexpensively online at places like ebay or even new at newegg or tigerdirect.

If you want to go old school and have an available pci slot look for a hauappuge pvr 250 or 350. I used to have a 250 model and it worked great with direct mpeg2 encoding. Record to mpeg2 then simply author the file right away. The only processing time is dependent on how complex your menu is - no menu will be quickest of course - motion menus will take much much longer depeneding on how many you do.

But of course if you do get a mpeg2 capture device you can still use the previously mentioned avstodvd for making your dvds from the mpeg2 files without extra processing aside from the proper structure and any menus you create - plus of course chapter creation if so desired.

I saw plenty of recommendations for WinDV for capturing to DV, but I didn't find a free tool that captures DV via firewire and converts to MPEG-2 on the fly. If the OP uses WinDV, he will need something to convert DV to MPEG-2, so I made the best suggestion I could, AVStoDVD.

I think both Nero Vision and Cyberlink Power Producer can capture DV via firewire and convert to MPEG-2 on the fly, assuming the PC is up to the task. However I have never tried them for that, so I don't know from personal experience that they can, or if they do a good job. They may also be overkill for the basic needs the OP spelled out.

[DB83]

If you want to percivere with Roxio 2011 and you are getting an install error "Licence missing" or something like that then just google on the exact wording including the word Roxio and you should find a solution.

My dad bought the product even tho I told him before it was a pile of poo and then the istallation issues started.

The really is not a do-it-all-in-one-program solution other than Nero and frankly that is another pile of poo

[lordsmurf]

convert to MPEG-2 on the fly

You don't see many programs that do this, or recommendation for those that do, because this method of MPEG encoding generally looks like ass. Your video will look like it was built with fuzzy Lego blocks, with all the noise and macroblocking. Nobody with clear vision or an appreciation of video quality would ever suggest this method, or software that performs such a task.

[usually_quiet]

convert to MPEG-2 on the fly

You don't see many programs that do this, or recommendation for those that do, because this method of MPEG encoding generally looks like ass. Your video will look like it was built with fuzzy Lego blocks, with all the noise and macroblocking. Nobody with clear vision or an appreciation of video quality would ever suggest this method, or software that performs such a task.

Well, that answers the question as to whether or not Nero Vision or Cyberlink Power Producer can do a good job if they convert from DV to MPEG-2 on the fly. Apparently LS has tried them both recently on an better than adequate PC and knows for certain how they perform.

[lordsmurf]

Apparently LS has tried them both recently on an better than adequate PC and knows for certain how they perform.

In 2009 and again in 2010. Yep.

Looks like crap.

[DB83]

I do not want to enter into a war of words here but is there really a difference between 'convert to mpeg2 on the fly' and 'capture to mpeg2'

I only mention this is because I do this all the time and I really do not see the noise and the macroblocking that has been previously described.

Now we are talking about taking a DV source and 'converting'/'capturing' that to mpeg2 are we not? Accepted that the OP has his source direct from a camera whereas I take my source from VHS to an ADVC and then firewire for a software 'capture'. The software is now quite old 'Ulead Media Studio 7' and there is nothing between the VCR and the ADVC (my System specs have not been updated bit I could well do this with the quoted specs and equally can do it with my present system which I would hardly call high spec >> just an E8200 with 2 gig of ram). But is there any real difference between a direct camera connection and an ADVC(no filtering) since as far as the PC is concerned it is just a DV source ?

[usually_quiet]

I do not want to enter into a war of words here but is there really a difference between 'convert to mpeg2 on the fly' and 'capture to mpeg2'

I only mention this is because I do this all the time and I really do not see the noise and the macroblocking that has been previously described.

Now we are talking about taking a DV source and 'converting'/'capturing' that to mpeg2 are we not? Accepted that the OP has his source direct from a camera whereas I take my source from VHS to an ADVC and then firewire for a software 'capture'. The software is now quite old 'Ulead Media Studio 7' and there is nothing between the VCR and the ADVC (my System specs have not been updated bit I could well do this with the quoted specs and equally can do it with my present system which I would hardly call high spec >> just an E8200 with 2 gig of ram). But is there any real difference between a direct camera connection and an ADVC(no filtering) since as far as the PC is concerned it is just a DV source ?

For what it is worth, the methods we've discussed to go from DV to MPEG-2 and my understanding of the merits of each are as follows.

1. Connect the camera to the PC using firewire, capture DV as DV on the PC, then convert from DV to MPEG-2 using AVStoDVD or some other program. The transfer of the DV file to computer produces an exact copy of the original. The computer can take as much time as necessary to decode and re-encode, which means two-pass encoding is an available option with this method. This method also allows frame-accurate cutting/trimming to be performed directly on the DV file prior to conversion, which many people prefer because no re-encoding is needed for the edits themselves. Perfectionists would consider this to be the best option, but the transferred DV files require more HDD space than MPEG-2.

2. Connect the camera's AV outputs to an MPEG-2 capture device installed in or connected to the PC and capture directly to MPEG-2. Analog to MPEG-2 encoding may be done using hardware or software, depending on how the MPEG-2 capture device is designed to work. Edits need to be done to a MPEG-2 file, either at the GOP level with something like Mpg2Cut2, or with a basic frame-accurate MEG-2 editor like Cuttermaran, VideoReDo, or Mpeg-VCR. It is not as good as #1 because it is a digital-to-analog-to-digital process and 2-pass encoding is not possible, since encoding has to be done in real time. Also, frame-accurate MPEG-2 editors must do a little re-encoding near the cuts, if the cuts are not made at GOP oundaries.

3. Connect the camera to the PC using firewire and convert from DV to MPEG-2 using a program that can re-encode on the fly. Edits must be done to a MPEG-2 file, either at the GOP level with something like Mpg2Cut2, or with a basic frame-accurate MEG-2 editor like Cuttermaran, VideoReDo, or Mpeg-VCR. Not as good as #1 because software must both decompress the original DV digital encoding and re-encode very quickly, and 2-pass encoding is not possible. According to LS, this method is not as good as #2 either. (I'm guessing this is because digitizing and encoding uncompressed analog input to MPEG-2 in real time is less demanding than decoding DV and converting to MPEG-2 on the fly, and/or the decoders and encoders used by software that does on-the-fly DV to MPEG-2 conversion are terrible.)

[yoda313]

@usually_quiet - this is getting quite off topic but another option in the realtime world that would likely be superior to on-the-fly options directly to the computer (from dv sources without a mpeg capture device) would be a settop dvd recorder.

The settop dvd recorders often have dv inputs. THey would then let you encode directly to a dvdr. Then from there you can do what you want with it or leave it as it is with simple chapters and stock menus (whatever the dvd recorder might have available).

Assuming one uses the hq 1 hour modes available on a wide selection of dvd recorders this realtime dvd recording method might be the best option.

This would be a compromise between speed and quality. Definitely camcorder to pc in dv format then dv to mpeg2 for dvd creation is preferred for top quality and control, this alternate with the dvd recorder is another approach.

It would still lead to reencoding on the edit spots should it be needed but it would only need a rip of the dvd after its recorded. No other encoding or adjustments would be needed.

[lordsmurf]

I do not want to enter into a war of words here but is there really a difference between 'convert to mpeg2 on the fly' and 'capture to mpeg2'?

Yes.
The hardware is the deciding factor.

A DVD recorder is better than software, for immediate MPEG gratification.

[usually_quiet]

@usually_quiet - this is getting quite off topic but another option in the realtime world that would likely be superior to on-the-fly options directly to the computer (from dv sources without a mpeg capture device) would be a settop dvd recorder.

The settop dvd recorders often have dv inputs. THey would then let you encode directly to a dvdr. Then from there you can do what you want with it or leave it as it is with simple chapters and stock menus (whatever the dvd recorder might have available).

Assuming one uses the hq 1 hour modes available on a wide selection of dvd recorders this realtime dvd recording method might be the best option.

This would be a compromise between speed and quality. Definitely camcorder to pc in dv format then dv to mpeg2 for dvd creation is preferred for top quality and control, this alternate with the dvd recorder is another approach.

It would still lead to reencoding on the edit spots should it be needed but it would only need a rip of the dvd after its recorded. No other encoding or adjustments would be needed.

A DVD recorder would be the easiest way to go, and would give decent quality, but as I recall only higher-end, mostly HDD DVD recorders have firewire inputs. These are probably not available within the OP's budget even as a used good-condition purchase from eBay.

[yoda313]

but as I recall only higher-end, mostly HDD DVD recorders have firewire inputs.

Well that might be the case nowadays but when dvd recorders were more common I got a liteon dvd recorder with a dv input. It was one without a harddrive. I think it was only about a 100.00 or so when it came out.

Now that dvd recorders aren't as readily availaible that may have gone to the premium only feature on high end models.

But I'm guessing the middle of the pack crowd from a few years ago may still be easily obtainable from ebay.

[DB83]

I do not want to enter into a war of words here but is there really a difference between 'convert to mpeg2 on the fly' and 'capture to mpeg2'?

Yes.
The hardware is the deciding factor.

A DVD recorder is better than software, for immediate MPEG gratification.

OK. But I really asked the question in the context of this thread as, unless I am mistaken, the OP simply connects his DV source via firewire to the PC and 'converts on the fly' with Roxio.

My workflow is similar inasmuch that the ADVC acts as the camera connected to the PC by firewire.

So, in both cases, there is no hardware encoding of the DV stream into Mpeg2. I could post an example of the output but the samples on my HDD at present are fairly static and no bright or moving objects so these are no exactly taxing the encoding. But I do have some older Carnival recordings so later this week I will see what these produce as these should challenge the very best. More than happy then to withdraw my 'no problems' statement.

[usually_quiet]

but as I recall only higher-end, mostly HDD DVD recorders have firewire inputs.

Well that might be the case nowadays but when dvd recorders were more common I got a liteon dvd recorder with a dv input. It was one without a harddrive. I think it was only about a 100.00 or so when it came out.

Now that dvd recorders aren't as readily availaible that may have gone to the premium only feature on high end models.

But I'm guessing the middle of the pack crowd from a few years ago may still be easily obtainable from ebay.

While someone might sell a used DVD-only recorder from 2006 or 2007 for $70 or less including shipping, the condition might not be great at this point. I know the some older Lite-On models could be self-repaired with off-the-shelf drives, but even suitable replacement drives could be hard to find now. Personally, I would not recommend taking a chance on buying a cheap used unit from a private owner to anyone who does not know much about DVD recorders, is not skilled at repairing electronics, and is not prepared to throw away their money.

The OP gave a $70 budget for software (shipping charges are usually low for software), and I found nothing at or below that with a small shipping and handling fee. I found a "region free" Lite-On DVD recorder with firewire selling for around $125 at full price, not including shipping. Another newish model non-HDD DVD recorder with a firewire input I saw that was close to the budgeted price was a Sony RDR-GX257, but I have no idea if it is has a good encoder chip or or not. There is a refurb on on eBay now, priced at about $70, but shipping is an additional $20. The other sources I found are selling new/refurb units of this model at a higher prices.

So yes, fairly inexpensive non-HDD models with firewire are available, but the total price is still a little beyond the OP's budget.

[yoda313]

fairly inexpensive non-HDD models with firewire are available, but the total price is still beyond the OP's budget.

Ah I did not realize a budget was posted. That clinches it then.

[usually_quiet]

OK. But I really asked the question in the context of this thread as, unless I am mistaken, the OP simply connects his DV source via firewire to the PC and 'converts on the fly' with Roxio.

As I understand it, currently the OP is capturing DV AVI with Roxio, but would like to capture in the MPEG-2 format instead.

Savings of those video files onto hard disk in MPEG-2 format. When Roxio works correctly, it allows you to save in DV AVI format but the files are exponentially larger and I don't have the space to keep doing that.

[DB83]

OK. But I really asked the question in the context of this thread as, unless I am mistaken, the OP simply connects his DV source via firewire to the PC and 'converts on the fly' with Roxio.

As I understand it, currently the OP is capturing DV AVI with Roxio, but would like to capture in the MPEG-2 format instead.

Savings of those video files onto hard disk in MPEG-2 format. When Roxio works correctly, it allows you to save in DV AVI format but the files are exponentially larger and I don't have the space to keep doing that.

Fair enough. My mistake. Confused when the topic started to mention 'converting on the fly' and just wondered if Roxio was doing that as well.

[lacywest]

In the time this thread was posted ... I put a Panasonic EZ27 DVD Recorder in my bedroom ... my DVD Tray for my Panasonic EH50 ... would not open up.

So far the EZ27 is doing just fine ... I wanted to mention here ... it has a Firewire input in the front access panel.

[Cauptain]

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