8mm black streaks

[mark23]

Hi There.

I was digitizing some old 8mm tape footage with my Canon 8mm camera (ES980) and most tapes are great except for a portion of one that has black streaks or tearing constantly going through the footage, even on the date code on the tape. I don't know if this was from another tape that was recorded on to this one, or if it is on the actual tape that i am trying to convert. It is a sony Hi8 tape, however the footage is in regular 8mm mode.

Just wondering if there is anything I can do in post or equipment i could get that would help. I can provide screen shots if necessary.
I have used virtual dub and avidemux.

Thanks
M

[poisondeathray]

contiguous black streaks , or little alternating drop outs ?

is it only on a certain section of that particular tape? are the streaks "repeatable" or different each time you play that section ?

can you post a screenshot or sample ?

[mark23]

Here is a screen shot of the issues. Looks like the video is 'tearing' from the edges. Could these be time base errors? Looks more than just the scattered drop out. I have a access to a few broadcast TBCs if that would help, unless something from sign video or vidicraft could help.

Problem is I do not know if this problem is on the tape or if this was a dub of a bad tape to this one, which would be a bit more problem fixing im guessing. I only have one 8mm camera to play this on which is too bad, but all other tapes play fine in it. And only a portion of this one has these issues.

Any help would be great thanks.

M

[2Bdecided]

That's very similar to horrendously worn heads, or (more likely) a VHS vs S-VHS issue.

You said it's a hi-8 tape that's only recorded as standard 8. Are you absolutely sure that the recorder or player didn't/isn't getting confused about the actual format?

Cheers,
David.

[victoriabears]

may sound silly, tap the tape firmly on a hard surface, try to rewind it back and forth a few times without it being wound round video heads, but if these simple measures do not work I would try another VCR see what happens.

Its a physical issue brought about on the recording by the original machine being wonky or the current playback machine being wonky.

[mark23]

I'm hoping it is the tape and not the playback deck of the original footage, if it is a dub. Also, I don't know if this is useful information, but it seems to be a HI-8 tape but recorded in standard 8mm format with a 8mm camera (unknown). I have been given 6 8mm tapes and 5 of them play fine however it is just this one that has the issue, but fingers crossed for sure. I currently do not have another 8mm camera/player to try sadly. Any model/brand anyone would recommend? I have seen a few on ebay portable sony players that look interesting, also some broadcast quality type 8mm players.

Also, if this is not the player or the tape, is there any filters in VDub or something else that can help reduce the problem? I have not used AVISynth so I no knowledge on it. I did however know someone who wrote a script for avisynth to pull the video properly to the left side of the screen so that it was straight edges. That would be useful too

Thanks
Mark

[mammo1789]

It’s typical hi8 tape played on regular 8 camcorder issue that I finally figure it out myself just recently when I tried to playback the hi8 Sony metal tape on Samsung 8mm camera and get identical results like yours ( too bad I also cant find hi8 camera anywhere). Although it says that hi8 tapes cannot be played on 8mm camera we now that it can ( although with issues that you and I see)

[jmac698]

There is an Avisynth script for removal of black stripes, just like your issue. And the issue I agree is due to different tape formats. I can produce this same issue on a brand new recording; if I record something in S-VHS (ET) and play back on a normal VCR. Some VCR's have a feature called QSVHS (Quasi-SVHS) for playback of S-VHS tapes, in which case they look fine (but losing the extra luminance detail), others work even without that as an advertised feature, and still others have the black streaks problem (black streaks occur on transitions from dark to light areas). The streaks tend to be in the same spot, but can be reduced by the median method (where 3 captures take the median).
The median means you sort the pixels in order of brightness and take the middle one; the darkest one would be the copy with the streak, the lightest one should be close to the middle one. Sometimes with dropouts, the brightest one is a white streak. So the middle brightness (of the same pixel in one of the copies). is the best to take for these problems, plus it also reduces random noise.

This script deals with the problem with only one copy of the capture:
forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=121197

[edDV]

I don't know if this was from another tape that was recorded on to this one, or if it is on the actual tape that i am trying to convert. It is a sony Hi8 tape, however the footage is in regular 8mm mode.

Very sloppy workflow and if you tried to play a Hi8 tape on a video8 player the damage is great. If you wiped the original, you are in deep trouble. That is if you care. If you care, this is a recovery of the remains project.

[mammo1789]

Very sloppy workflow and if you tried to play a Hi8 tape on a video8 player the damage is great.

What do you mean edv it can ruin the player, the head, or the cassette? I tried couple of times to play hi8 tapes on 8mm camera and after that I played 8mm tape nothing happened the picture is clear on 8mm tape ( maybe some long turn screw up ?).

There is an Avisynth script for removal of black stripes, just like your issue.

I know jmac we talked about on my other tread and even we asked yup on doom’s tread, about his script. Somehow I didn’t manage to work it and when I did with suggestion of yup it removed the thin stripes but not the big ones ( I know that he had some attempt to split the script for big and small streaks, but I don’t know how it goes ), and it blurred the picture to much .
I will give it try once more time and see how it goes probably some progression there is made.

The streaks tend to be in the same spot, but can be reduced by the median method (where 3 captures take the median)

I tried that method and it doesn’t work on stripes ( at least in my case), although I agree that some noise reduction is happening there.

[edDV]

If you dub Hi8 to Video8 the quality drops ~half.

If you force a Hi8 recorded tape to play on a Video8 deck, the video will be distorted. FM deviation frequencies differ. It shouldn't damage the deck, just the playback quality.

A Video8 recorded tape will play properly on a Hi8 deck but not the other way around.

[ejolson]

Also, I don't know if this is useful information, but it seems to be a HI-8 tape but recorded in standard 8mm format with a 8mm camera (unknown).

I think you have a Hi8 tape recorded in Hi8 mode. Play it back in a Hi8 compatible deck to make sure.

[jmac698]

There may be an issue with playing metal, or hi8 tapes in video8 decks, as the softer metal in the head may wear quicker with the harder metal used in the tape. For playing a few times, I don't think it's a big issue.

I didn't realize you are the same person, I recognize that conversation about stripes. I can see that the thick stripes will be a problem. The only real solution may be to play it in a hi8 deck. I have an idea for a script to fix this but it still won't be perfect. You should be able to make use of any motion from right to left; as the same object becomes obscured by stripes, you can replace that area with clear motion compensation.

[NJRoadfan]

There may be an issue with playing metal, or hi8 tapes in video8 decks, as the softer metal in the head may wear quicker with the harder metal used in the tape. For playing a few times, I don't think it's a big issue.

All Video-8 and Hi-8 tapes are metal particle formulation as the format specifies it. Using a Hi-8 tape in a standard Video-8 recorder shouldn't be a problem. Sony did make evaporated metal Hi-8 tapes, but those came much later in the format's years and are fairly rare due to cost.

[jmac698]

I didn't know that for sure (thus "may"), it's good to get clarification. Is there a case where it's true? I think there were old cassette decks not designed for metal playback...

[mammo1789]

All Video-8 and Hi-8 tapes are metal particle formulation as the format specifies it. Using a Hi-8 tape in a standard Video-8 recorder shouldn't be a problem. Sony did make evaporated metal Hi-8 tapes, but those came much later in the format's years and are fairly rare due to cost.

I have couple of sonys hi8 HI8MP90 Super MP ( Metal particle tape it says on the case ) and one Hi8 Metal-E 90( is this the tape is black and grey, what you are talking about i think it was very expensive in the 90 ties ). All of them play "nice" on mediocre samsung k90 8mm camera,but with quality issues that we are discusing here.

The problem is i cant find Hi8 camera in Macedonia nowhere ( not cheap or expensive ( i wouldn't buy the expensive one even if i found one), here people are selling some s..it VHS Panasonic "pro" Cameras for 3000$ and one guy is selling like mine camera for 50 eruos (85$) are you kidding me , i was thinking of selling my camera after "work done" for 5$ but now i see i have wealthy possession .
And the guys that are doing transferring of vhs/8mm are using some unknowns cameras with unknown dvd recorders and make the recording as is ( no losless, only dvd ).

I have an idea for a script to fix this but it still won't be perfect

I'm looking forward for it thanks