VideoHelp Forum
+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 19 of 19
Thread
  1. Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Norway
    Search PM
    Hi

    I made an recording of an show in some bad lighting.
    So I have some noise in my movie.
    I used my Canon HF200

    I have magix movie edit 17.
    But I cant find anything there to remove noise.
    Is there any other program that is good at removing noise?
    Quote Quote  
  2. Member zoobie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Florida
    Search Comp PM
    virtual dub (free) has some good noise filters for it
    Quote Quote  
  3. Mod Neophyte Super Moderator redwudz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    USA
    Search Comp PM
    A few VD filters here: http://www.infognition.com/VirtualDubFilters/ I would look into 'Gradation curves' and maybe 'Colormill' for common adjustments. For noise, there are a lot of filters available, depending on the type of noise.

    You might also look into converting the video into a easier to work with codec like Neo Scene, especially if you need to do extensive editing. No matter what, you will likely need a fast CPU and a lot of hard drive space.
    Quote Quote  
  4. First i wouldn't use virtualdub at all (rec601 problems etc..)
    Second avisynth is the tool to use and a good denoiser could be FFT33DGPU but there are others
    Last i'd use AvSp to run avs scripts
    *** DIGITIZING VHS / ANALOG VIDEOS SINCE 2001**** GEAR: JVC HR-S7700MS, TOSHIBA V733EF AND MORE
    Quote Quote  
  5. Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    New York, US
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by themaster1 View Post
    First i wouldn't use virtualdub at all (rec601 problems etc..)
    Second avisynth is the tool to use and a good denoiser could be FFT33DGPU but there are others
    Last i'd use AvSp to run avs scripts
    I've yet to find an AviSynth noise filter that can successfully remove serious noise problems. I've used it on and off since 1992 and solved many seemingly insurmountable problems with it. But extensive denoising and color correction are not AviSynth's best talents.

    I know what Rec601 "problems" you refer to, but it's easy enough to get proper RGB in VirtualDub thru AviSynth in one step. But the source described by the OP typically has nonlinear color and low-light problems that can't be resolved in YUV. I'd go with redwudz' suggestion of the gradation and/or ColorMill filters in VDub. But use AviSynth initially to avoid YUV->RGB problems. As for noise, VDub's built-in temporal smoother at half-power or less does credible work on its own and retains detail well. AviSynth, OTOH, has good filters for such problems as rainbows, spots, flashes, etc., but for really serious chroma and low-light noise I'd get NeatVideo (but learn to use it first -- and never, NEVER use NV's default settings! Take this warning seriously.). I'd suggest the OP should still learn to work with AviSynth, which can address many problems that VirtualDub can't touch. IMHO neither tool is a silver bullet: you need both.

    edit: Wait a minute. Didn't the OP state this video was HD? HD doesn't use Rec601.
    Last edited by sanlyn; 20th Mar 2014 at 16:29.
    Quote Quote  
  6. Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
    Wait a minute. Didn't the OP state this video was HD? HD doesn't use Rec601.
    Yes, but VirtualDub converts all incoming video to RGB using rec601. On the other hand it will convert back to YUV using rec601 too. So the operations are symetrical (though colors will be slightly off while editing). You may have to manually force conversion to YUV for output.
    Quote Quote  
  7. I'm well aware of vdub capabilities. It's preferable, for the reason mentionned by jogabo (matrix incoherences) and also others problems such as interlaced fields problems rgb>yv12, chroma subsampling to use virtualdub's filters directly into an avs script.
    NeatVideo is useable inside an avs script with the pro version i believe.
    For bad lighting there is an plugin HDRAGC , or smoothAdjust
    http://strony.aster.pl/paviko/hdragc.htm
    http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=154971
    *** DIGITIZING VHS / ANALOG VIDEOS SINCE 2001**** GEAR: JVC HR-S7700MS, TOSHIBA V733EF AND MORE
    Quote Quote  
  8. Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    New York, US
    Search Comp PM
    True. If you're going to work in HD color (better have an HD monitor, and it better be calibrated), you can:

    ConvertToRGB32(matrix="rec709",interlaced=true)

    Rec601/709 are not color"converters", they are matrix algorithms;they encode one way and reverse the encoding for playback. How they display on a PC varies with little consistency, even to this point: Many DENON HDMI outputs will upscacle SD/Rec601 to Rec709 if you set 16:9 as your monitor output. Other players vary as well. The BluRay you watched last night was originally mastered and archived as RGB, not YUV (and probably on a CRT studio monitor). The principle difference between 601 and 709 is saturation levels and slight CIE placement offsets. I agree, interlace and matrix are a problem with VDub, but AviSYnth can set it right for use with VirtualDub. I've worked with SD and HD using the appropriate matrixes, with no problem.

    Yes, there are all kinds of software out there. If you can afford it.
    Last edited by sanlyn; 20th Mar 2014 at 16:29.
    Quote Quote  
  9. The problem with rec709 or rec601 is you will clip "superbrights" and "superdarks" Y' <16, Y'>235

    If this is a low light video, I would either bring up levels in Y'CbCr (before vdub , or RGB conversion) , or use PC.709
    Quote Quote  
  10. Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    New York, US
    Search Comp PM
    Correct your levels and colors in PC.709, and your output will lose black-level detail. There are posts all over this forum warning against the "PC" matrixes. These over-expand lower and higher levels for the sRGB color space, not for 601/709. The whole point of using AviSYnth to convert to RGB is to avoid the PC matrixes, which VirtualDub uses by default. sRGB has a far wider color and brilliance gamut than 601 or 709. You would want to process your video closer to the way it looks on a TV's more limited CIE gamut, not on a PC.
    Last edited by sanlyn; 20th Mar 2014 at 16:29.
    Quote Quote  
  11. Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
    Correct your levels and colors in PC.709, and your output will lose black-level detail. There are posts all over this forum warning against the "PC" matrixes. These over-expand lower and higher levels for the sRGB color space, not for 601/709. The whole point of using AviSYnth to convert to RGB is to avoid the PC matrixes, which VirtualDub uses by default.
    You have it backwards. The REC matrices enhance the contrast (Y=16-235 --> RGB=0-255) and risk losing blacker-than-black and whiter-than-white. The PC matrices leave the contrast alone (Y=0-255 --> RGB=0-255). VirtualDub uses the rec601 matrix.
    Quote Quote  
  12. Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    New York, US
    Search Comp PM
    Mm. Okay, jagabo, I thought VDub used PC601 by default. But I see that you're correct...again (why am I not suprised?).

    I've seen this countless times. What many do is open a video in VirtualDub (whether using AviSYnth for color conversion or not), then use color filters to push the darks up to RGB16 and to lower the brights. The result looks washed out, because it has been manually "clipped" in software to look like the encoded video, not like the decoded final display.

    In RGB your video should look, well, proper. If something looks clipped, relieve that clipping with filters but don't make it look washed out. If it looks washed out/clipped on your PC using an appropriate RGB matrix, it'll look that way on a TV as well.

    As it is, there's not much difference between 601 and 709 anyway. The following samples are from a retail DVD recorded onto another DVD (thru an external TBC). I'm using Rec709 initially because the source player outputs Rec709. The recorder records with 601. The original has typical British color, i.e., the darks are dark. I've made recordings off cable that lolok atrocious on the low end. Meanwhile, I've yet to see a TV that has any problem reproducing the range seen here.

    Loaded into VDub using ConvertToRGB32(matrix="Rec709",interlaced=true)

    Image
    [Attachment 5288 - Click to enlarge]


    Loaded into VDub using ConvertToRGB32(matrix="PC.709",interlaced=true)

    Image
    [Attachment 5288 - Click to enlarge]


    Encoded to MPEG2 via TMPGenc 2.5 using Rec609.
    Loaded into VDub without AviSynth (ignoring any interlace problems)
    The color differences betweeen 601 and 709 are visible, but not that evident.
    I don't see any clipping.

    Image
    [Attachment 5289 - Click to enlarge]


    Again, it depends on the source. I've seen recorded sources that are just all wrong. In that case, you have work to do. Use a calibrated monitor and an appropriate colorspace. There are "rules", of course, but they don't always work as advertised.
    Last edited by sanlyn; 20th Mar 2014 at 16:30.
    Quote Quote  
  13. The point about using PC matrix is when you have Y' values <16 or >235 . If you have a Y'CbCr source that is already in the range Y'16-235 CbCr 16-240 , then you won't see a difference in clipping - because nothing is clipped! - everything falls within that range already

    But if you have overbrights, or dark footage (such as the OP), it's impossible to salvage those values Y' <16 or >235, because they are clipped by the Rec601/709 conversion . Now theoretically you're supposed to use adquate exposure, lighting, waveform monitor or zebras so you shoot "legal range", but many consumer cameras don't have this monitoring, and are exceptionally poor at low light conditions anyway
    Quote Quote  
  14. Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Norway
    Search PM
    Oh sh...
    Ok so no easy way as I can see.
    I've downloaded an test of premiere cs4 and som playing with chanels helped a lot.
    I also found an demo of neat video on tpb but it only crashes the premier.

    The virutaldub wont open my .MTS files.
    Avisynth seems hard to use.

    im hapy with the premiere as Im most used to photo and it a lot like Photo shop.
    But im not spending a lot of money on filters if they only crash the program...
    Quote Quote  
  15. Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    New York, US
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by ITW View Post
    im hapy with the premiere as Im most used to photo and it a lot like Photo shop.
    But im not spending a lot of money on filters if they only crash the program...
    Not that difficult. If your video doesn't look right, it helps to be aware of some of this stuff -- so you can find out what went wrong.
    Last edited by sanlyn; 20th Mar 2014 at 16:30.
    Quote Quote  
  16. Originally Posted by ITW View Post
    Avisynth seems hard to use.
    Yes it is but it's worth the energy to learn how it works.I used vdub a lot the last couple of years and i now wish i knew how to use avisynth in those days, truely.I'm just saying..

    You have to read the official manual provided with avisynth and also review pages here aswell as search on doom9's forum here
    *** DIGITIZING VHS / ANALOG VIDEOS SINCE 2001**** GEAR: JVC HR-S7700MS, TOSHIBA V733EF AND MORE
    Quote Quote  
  17. You can use a tool like AVSP to help you create and edit AviSynth scripts. I have some batch files in my SendTo folder so I can right click on a media file and SendTo the batch file to create an AVS script. Put this in your SendTo folder to as AviSource.bat:

    echo AviSource("%~d1%~p1%~n1%~x1") > "%~d1%~p1%~n1.avs"
    Then you can right click on an AVI file and select SendTo -> AviSource.bat. I have others for Mpeg2Source(), DirectShowSource(), and ImageSource().
    Last edited by jagabo; 25th Jan 2011 at 23:48.
    Quote Quote  
  18. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    dFAQ.us/lordsmurf
    Search Comp PM
    You can use a tool like AVSP to help you create and edit AviSynth scripts.
    A lot of those GUIs worked more to confuse me than anything else.
    Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
    FAQs: Best Blank DiscsBest TBCsBest VCRs for captureRestore VHS
    Quote Quote  
  19. Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    You can use a tool like AVSP to help you create and edit AviSynth scripts.
    A lot of those GUIs worked more to confuse me than anything else.
    Agreed. I think it depends on how you learned avisynth in the first place. I learned to write my own scripts first and AVSP seems cumbersome to use now that I found it. I do like using it to test out what effect various filters/settings will have on output frames though.
    Quote Quote  



Similar Threads

Visit our sponsor! Try DVDFab and backup Blu-rays!