Takers DVD contains Cinavia protection

[TooLFooL]

I wish someone would send me an audio sample, any format, I'd love to examine this, or say an hour in compressed mp4 of the audio and the video, I'll put back up on one of my servers and you can download my resulting file if I think I'm successful.

click on the images to download the files...
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1458873#post1458873

[olyteddy]

i'd get the same video with the protection and one without

if an unprotected video existed, there wouldn't be an issue...

But if they are now adding it to DVDs too, then there are 2 different samples of the sound to compare (BD & DVD)

[guns1inger]

The theatrical audio also has the protection included. All three have different codes though, so the player can tell if they have been mixed and matched.

[Eyedoctor2]

Just to confirm the info in this thread:

After ripping Takers, I used multiAVCHD to convert it to an AVCHD and put it on my hard drive to view off the PS3. I had never heard of Cinavia before. After about a half hour of watching the movie, the screen showed the error message and the audio dropped out.

Frustrated, I used DVD shrink to put the movie on a DVD-RW and played it on the PS3. Same result.

Went to bed and this morning watched the movie without incident played off the DVD-RW on my Toshiba HD-XA2.

What a pain!

Added: I just used DVD Rebuilder to re-encode the main movie, and once again about thirty minutes into the movie Cinavia cut out the audio and gave the error message onscreen.

The doom.org site is posting feverishly on this issue. Thread link:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=155777

[sum_guy]

Here's my plan, strip out of tracks I downloaded off of doom, save each track seperately, open them in a hex editor and compare, this is time consuming and no idea what I will find. Simply looking at the tracks in say audacity probably won't yield an obvious result.

[dvdsham]

Software will most likely be better but I'm trying to filter it old skool using an OP AMP line driver & receiver to make a filter using the following: http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/drv135.html Good luck to everyone for a more better solution.

[sum_guy]

From what I've gleaned so far from the myriad of information, is that the hardware is listening for this mysterious signal and I assume it's trying to match it up to the disk (lock and key)? Maybe it's not? So stripping it out, will have the effect of the hardware not finding the signal and thereby triggering the dreaded cinavia mute. I'm assuming that the disk contains a key (of some kind, somewhere on the disk/data) that the hardware portion identifies and matches up to the audio signal, or the hardware has no key/lock combination and simply is listening for the signal and when it doesn't find it, it triggers mute. Whats strange is that accelerating the audio pitch 1/2 percent has the effect of not triggering the protection. So if thats the case, is there no key/lock combination at all?

[jagabo]

Whats strange is that accelerating the audio pitch 1/2 percent has the effect of not triggering the protection.

Where are you getting that? I read you had to change the rate/pitch by 50 percent to prevent Cinavia detection. That is enough to make Darth Vader sound like a chipmunk.

[sum_guy]

I'm sorry, I should have said 1.5 playback ratio on on the PS3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RI3bvBQEvrc

Audio and Video look watchable, certainly not in the chipmunk sound range.

[jagabo]

That sample increased the playback speed by 50 percent and filtered the audio so that it played back 50 percent faster without changing the pitch. If you like watching a 90 minute movie in 60 minutes that's the solution for you.

[sum_guy]

It's not a solution for me, it's simply a clue to defeating the protection schema.

[Cornucopia]

Seems to me, since the circuit that senses the signal can pick it up again every ~12 seconds, then that cyclic nature is a place to focus on. If the signal repeats consistently, one could do a Very Low Frequency Bandpass filter on a sidechain and then do a statistical pattern match and FIND the signal through the haze of the program's signal. Then it's just a matter of subtracting it out from the program. Ought to work even when though the signal might be unique to that particular program.

What do you think?

Scott

oh, and sum_guy,
there is NOTHING currently in the BD spec that REQUIRES an audio track be Cinavia-protected, so until that happens, the existence of a clean signal in and of itself should be no cause for alarm to a player.

[sum_guy]

I ran a quick spectrum analysis side by side of a Cinavia protected audio file, and a non protected sample. If anyone would like to review the results, it's an excel file and can be downloaded here

http://www.webng.com/nukeya/comparison.xls

[dvdsham]

I can't believe it...eat my balls....those cleaver S.O.B's that created this Cinavia...The circuit is pretty sophisticated. You know how we all have an individual voice pattern like a finger print, yeah...the only simple way describing the Cinavia circuit is that it has a decibel graph and when it receives the signal it matches to the audio print on the graph. It's hard to say just how many combinations there are. It would be the worlds best lock and key system ever designed. I'm not saying it's not hackable but there are possibly billions of combinations to unlock the Cinavia and not every movie will contain the same audio print....damn! I suggest software that can be designed to filter out all these codes...Good Luck! In the future I'm staying away from devices that contain Cinavia. If someone is going hack this it's gonna have to be done by modified firmware or software!

[TooLFooL]

i TOLD you guys this is some pretty advanced coding, and its not gonna be a 'simple bandpass filter' that defeats it! the Doom9 forum has been active with people re-encoding the movie over and over again with every tool they have, but the protection remains every time.
someone on Doom9 also did a 'spectrum analysis', what exaclty is that? they produced this picture..
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1458772#post1458772

[Cornucopia]

Spectrum analysis is basically a graph of a clip (very short window) that shows Increasing Frequency on the X-axis and Increasing Amplitude (Loudness/Volume) on the Y-axis. Advanced versions have a Z-axis that shows the subsequent time windows.

Looking at that supplied graph tells me there is either something wrong with the window/application, or there is something fooling it (through PulseWidthModulation), or there actually is a fairly stead volume (@ 3/4 of the way up = loud) all across the board.

**************

No, on second thought, this graph looks more like it's got increasing amplitude shown as brighter/hotter colors, so the Frequency is likely the y-axis and Time is the x-axis. In which case, you've got what looks like 2 narrow bands of (upper) frequencies that is steady (indicative of a pilot tone?).

I don't know, I think it's still hackable. But it would probably be a good idea for there to be an online database of players that DO and DON'T support it, so people can know what they're getting into. I'm sure "THIS MODEL UTILIZES CINAVIA DRM COPY PROTECTION" isn't clearly labelled anywhere on the box.

Scott

[sacflies]

Guys I think this problem is just getting worse. I ripped my copy of The Social Network blu-ray to hard drive using MakeMKV (movie only) and tried to play it thru WD TV version 2 with an older firmware installed. This version of the WD TV is several years old and they don't even update the firmware anymore. Five minutes in the movie stops (audio AND video) and the screen goes black and "Invalid Format" dances across the screen. Now I assume this is not being generated thru the WD TV as it is an older version. Therefore the cinavia detection is being done by my brand new LG LD400 32in HDTV. The "Invalid Format" message is being generated by my TV. This is a new LG model that I believe came out last Fall. So not only do we have the PS3 and various blu-ray players with cinavia detection on them, now apparently TV's are coming out with this as well. We need a fix for this and fast!!

[TooLFooL]

I'm sure "THIS MODEL UTILIZES CINAVIA DRM COPY PROTECTION" isn't clearly labelled anywhere on the box.

actually, it is!... look at the box art of Takers..
http://www.dvdempire.com/Exec/v4_item.asp?item_id=1557091&tab=5&back=1&anchor=1#topoftabs

[Cornucopia]

Actually, I meant the Players, not the discs.

Scott

[sacflies]

Guys I think this problem is just getting worse. I ripped my copy of The Social Network blu-ray to hard drive using MakeMKV (movie only) and tried to play it thru WD TV version 2 with an older firmware installed. This version of the WD TV is several years old and they don't even update the firmware anymore. Five minutes in the movie stops (audio AND video) and the screen goes black and "Invalid Format" dances across the screen. Now I assume this is not being generated thru the WD TV as it is an older version. Therefore the cinavia detection is being done by my brand new LG LD400 32in HDTV. The "Invalid Format" message is being generated by my TV. This is a new LG model that I believe came out last Fall. So not only do we have the PS3 and various blu-ray players with cinavia detection on them, now apparently TV's are coming out with this as well. We need a fix for this and fast!!

Did some further testing. I now find that 3 more blu-ray rips also do not play thru my WD TV ver 2 to my new LG LD400 HDTV (Takers, Salt, and Dispicable Me). That now makes 4 blu-rays known to have cinavia copy protection that will not play thru my new LG LD400 HDTV. And ALL other blu-ray rips on the same HDD ripped the same way play perfectly fine. I am going to try to play these rips on the same WD TV ver 2 to an older HDTV (Panasonic plasma) and see if they play. If they play fine then that should prove that the culprit here is the LG LD400 HDTV. They are now putting cinavia on TV's folks. The problem is only getting worse.

[TooLFooL]

cinavia ONLY affects aacs players, which so far is bluray.

[sacflies]

Guys I think this problem is just getting worse. I ripped my copy of The Social Network blu-ray to hard drive using MakeMKV (movie only) and tried to play it thru WD TV version 2 with an older firmware installed. This version of the WD TV is several years old and they don't even update the firmware anymore. Five minutes in the movie stops (audio AND video) and the screen goes black and "Invalid Format" dances across the screen. Now I assume this is not being generated thru the WD TV as it is an older version. Therefore the cinavia detection is being done by my brand new LG LD400 32in HDTV. The "Invalid Format" message is being generated by my TV. This is a new LG model that I believe came out last Fall. So not only do we have the PS3 and various blu-ray players with cinavia detection on them, now apparently TV's are coming out with this as well. We need a fix for this and fast!!

Did some further testing. I now find that 3 more blu-ray rips also do not play thru my WD TV ver 2 to my new LG LD400 HDTV (Takers, Salt, and Dispicable Me). That now makes 4 blu-rays known to have cinavia copy protection that will not play thru my new LG LD400 HDTV. And ALL other blu-ray rips on the same HDD ripped the same way play perfectly fine. I am going to try to play these rips on the same WD TV ver 2 to an older HDTV (Panasonic plasma) and see if they play. If they play fine then that should prove that the culprit here is the LG LD400 HDTV. They are now putting cinavia on TV's folks. The problem is only getting worse.

Forget all the above. It was not the TV. The problem is in my WD TV player.

[jagabo]

The problem is in my WD TV player.

Try remuxing with MMG (MkvToolNix) with the "Disable header removal compression..." option enabled.

[sum_guy]

Fengtao is saying the latest beta version of DVDFab will back up an original BD, main movie or full disk. I haven't tried it maybe someone else could and post results of there labors?

http://www.dvdfab.com/mlink/download.php?g=DVDFAB_BETA

DVDFab 8.0.7.2 Beta

[jagabo]

You already posted that:

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/330864-Takers-DVD-contains-Cinavia-protection?p=205...=1#post2050218

And it's only a disc based solution. It won't help people who like to keep all their videos on a server. Who actually uses discs any more?

[sum_guy]

Who actually uses discs any more?

I'm pretty safe in saying that millions of people still use discs, one only has to walk thru a Walmart, a Bestbuy, Target, and countless other retailers to see that discs still sell, not to mention online sellers, whether they are blank or right from the studios. This sites advertising banner on the homepage even advertises blank discs.

Software players at this point don't seem to be affected at all, so I'm not sure why your server wouldn't work, unless it has Cinavia hardware/firmware.

The way it looks to me, the only people who are truly SOL with Cinavia don't have an original BD to start with.

[jagabo]

Software players at this point don't seem to be affected at all

But they likely will be in the future.

[rickydavao]

Software players at this point don't seem to be affected at all

But they likely will be in the future.

If, by "Software players", we are referring to, for example, the WD TV and Asus O!Play, then wouldn't they be shooting themselves in the foot if they incorporated the Cinavia protection into their boxes?

[jagabo]

Software players at this point don't seem to be affected at all

But they likely will be in the future.

If, by "Software players", we are referring to, for example, the WD TV and Asus O!Play, then wouldn't they be shooting themselves in the foot if they incorporated the Cinavia protection into their boxes?

Yes. But they may have no choice. For example, what if it becomes a mandatory part of the AC3 or AAC license?

[lacywest]

Lots of info here ... so if this info has already been posted ... sorry ... I didn't mean to do that ...

SamuriHL at Doom9 ...

says this ... Good bye, Cinavia. My BD-RE with the DVD's audio track muxed in works fine. No Cinavia. Understand that the *ONLY* difference from my disc that has Cinavia and the one that doesn't is a switch of the audio track. Chapters, subtitles, and the video track are all identical on both discs. So, there, you have a work around for any BD that comes with a DVD, as well.

Read first >>> http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=155777&page=2

Read second >>> http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=155777&page=2

Read third >>> http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=155777&page=2


Lot of hassle here .... he took the ac3 audio from a DVD and remux it into the BR rip and Cinavia did not trigger the mute feature ... so I guess the persons putting BR rips on bittorent sites will now have to get a little bit more savvy.

But ... Cinavia ... is only good for preventing a person from making a backup BR. Nothing stopping them from making a MKV backup and enjoy the BDRIP on a PC.

Last year ... I rented Iron Man in Blue Ray format and viewed it on my Blue Ray LiteOn PC player. This movie has a lot of letter box ... top and bottom ... and watching it on my 42" HDTV ... the info to see ... I expected to see all kinds of detail. But how can a person get engulfed into the Blue Ray versions details without sitting super close to the screen.

Now if the Blue Ray version filled up the entire screen with no letter box bars on the top and bottom ... WOW !! ... it might have been a real eye opener.

This turned me off ... so no biggy for me about this Cinavia Protection.

I know a person in Washington ... who rips his BD disks to ISO format. And watches them that way. At the moment ... he is not talking to me ... he is being a ... D**K ... and so we are not talking at the moment ... he is my Wife's adopted brother and she can't stand him neither. LOL