Newbie with Xbox - what s/w to rip DVD library @ highest sound/pic quality

[Snuker]

As the title suggests, I have had a quick read through the topics and I am a bit confused.

I want to rip my DVD's to a (4TB) Network drive at the highest quality (for both sound & picture) and then watch/listen to via a 'device' in my lounge - I currently have an XBOX 360.
(I would prefer to just have the film, but not worried if the other stuff has to be ripped too)

From reading the forums, I **think** that the best software to rip is XviD4PSP and rip it to MP4

However .... if I understand correctly the XBOX will only read 2 audio channels and not 5.1 for surround sound.

2 channels is just not good enough - that's not surround !!!

I would **like** to use my XBOX, but if it is not up to scratch I will buy another product (next year) as I want the best vision and sound and I don't want to spend hours ripping at a 'low' quality 2 channel audio as I will likely buy a new console in a year of so and will regret not having surround sound.

I have an amp that will decode the sound to 5.1 surround if fed it from a digital cable.

So what should I do?

• What software are should I use to rip at the highest sound/vision quality for my XBOX 360?
• What settings should I rip the DVD at for my XBOX 360?
  
• What hardware should I 'read' the film with if not using my XBOX?
• What software /settings should I rip with if not using my XBOX?
  

Thanks,
Christopher

[hech54]

A "Rip" is an exact copy of your DVD with no compression.

[Snuker]

OK, potentially showing my noobie status here ... I want to 'convert' (?) the DVD files to something that I can store on my shared drive and then share via some streaming hardware (hopefully the XBOX 360) so that I can watch the film in highest quality sound and vision (if that is a lossless exact copy of the DVD - great) - however the files simply copied from a DVD will not play on XBOX or any other media streaming device will they ?

[hech54]

H264 is the best "size to quality" around today...but I don't own an Xbox so I have no idea what they can play.

[intracube]

However .... if I understand correctly the XBOX will only read 2 audio channels and not 5.1 for surround sound.

From this page:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/945416
The Xbox 360 supports 5.1 audio with both Dolby Digital and WMA - but only with specific containers (AVI and ASF) see section A1 and A4.

Someone might be able to suggest a suitable program to convert the video.

[neomaine]

snuker,

You can convert your movie to xvid and retain the full AC3 audio in copy mode using Xvid4PSP. I'd recommend CQ18 for a negligable difference in quality at 1/4 to 1/2 the file size. Or, using VdubMpeg2, divx at CQ2 (or 3) and again copy the audio.

Personally, for the work invovled, I'd recommend picking up a media player like a WDTV Live. You retain 100% video and 100% audio. With Anydvd in the background, you can use either dvddecryptor to create a single .VOB or DVDShrink at 100%. The WDTV Live will play a number of formats including BRay in the same manner as well once you start down that path.

With hard drive prices where they are now and continuing to drop, my days of re-encoding are long gone.

[Snuker]

OK so from this I get that H264 is the best (size to quality)

And I need to use 'containers' AVI or WMV (descriptions from the link are below)

So, can I do AVI-H264 ? or WMV-H264 ? (I don't really understand what Containers means)

If so which software is best and how do I do it ?

(but as an aside - do I WANT to do this or is is better to drop the XBOX and it's quirky ways and get another piece of kit for streaming as I don't want to convert all my DVD's this year only to wish I had done it in a better format next year)


File extensions: .avi, .divx
Containers: AVI
Video profiles: MPEG-4 Part 2, Simple and Advanced Simple Profile
Video bitrate: 5 megabits per second (Mbps) with resolutions of 1280 x 720 at 30 frames per second (fps)
Audio profiles: Dolby Digital 2 channel and 5.1 channel, MP3

File name extensions: .wmv
Container: asf
Video profiles: WMV7 (WMV1), WMV8 (WMV2), WMV9 (WMV3), VC-1 (WVC1 or WMVA) in simple, main, and advanced up to level 3
Video bitrate: 15 Mbps with resolutions of 1920 x 1080 at 30 fps
Audio profiles: WMA7/8, WMA 9 Pro (stereo and 5.1), WMA lossless

[Snuker]

So to clarify, neomaine, I will store the files on my current 4TB NAS but use the WDTV rather than the XBOX to watch them - a shame that XBOX cannot be a perfect one-stop-shop to I am not worried about the cost of the WDTV but would prefere to have one box under the television and use one interface for my entertainment whether that be games or films.


So, what is the next best thing if I DO decide to convert to the best that the XBOX can cope with? - AVI-H264 ? WMV-H264 ?

Thanks in advance,

C

[neomaine]

OK so from this I get that H264 is the best (size to quality)

And I need to use 'containers' AVI or WMV (descriptions from the link are below)

So, can I do AVI-H264 ? or WMV-H264 ? (I don't really understand what Containers means)

If so which software is best and how do I do it ?

(but as an aside - do I WANT to do this or is is better to drop the XBOX and it's quirky ways and get another piece of kit for streaming as I don't want to convert all my DVD's this year only to wish I had done it in a better format next year)


File extensions: .avi, .divx
Containers: AVI
Video profiles: MPEG-4 Part 2, Simple and Advanced Simple Profile
Video bitrate: 5 megabits per second (Mbps) with resolutions of 1280 x 720 at 30 frames per second (fps)
Audio profiles: Dolby Digital 2 channel and 5.1 channel, MP3

File name extensions: .wmv
Container: asf
Video profiles: WMV7 (WMV1), WMV8 (WMV2), WMV9 (WMV3), VC-1 (WVC1 or WMVA) in simple, main, and advanced up to level 3
Video bitrate: 15 Mbps with resolutions of 1920 x 1080 at 30 fps
Audio profiles: WMA7/8, WMA 9 Pro (stereo and 5.1), WMA lossless

- H262 best?
Yes, h264 is best size/quality option. Also the most time intensive.

- Which Containers/Huh, what?
Your 'containers' are essentially the file extensions. Video comes in many flavers/codecs like MPEG4 (divx/xvid), MPEG1/2, VC1...) as well as audio (mp2, mp2, ac3, flac...). The audio and video and placed into a container (.avi, .mp4, .mkv...) which describes what video, audio and other streams (like subtitles) are contained within them. Different containers have different capabilities, yes. Not all containers can handle all combinations of audio and video codecs.

- Which Software?
If you really want to go down that route, the top contenders - among many favorites here- are probably Xvid4PSP, Handbrake and Staxrip.

Snuker

Re: Newbie with Xbox - what s/w to rip DVD library @ highest sound/pic qual
So to clarify, neomaine, I will store the files on my current 4TB NAS but use the WDTV rather than the XBOX to watch them - a shame that XBOX cannot be a perfect one-stop-shop to I am not worried about the cost of the WDTV but would prefere to have one box under the television and use one interface for my entertainment whether that be games or films.


So, what is the next best thing if I DO decide to convert to the best that the XBOX can cope with? - AVI-H264 ? WMV-H264 ?

Thanks in advance,

C

- As an aside? Next steps?
As I mentioned before, avoid the whole conversion this time and anytime in the future and simply rip to the hard drive. It's the quickest and doesn't lose any quality and you have the space for it.

If you really want to put yourself through the conversion to save the space... I'd still recommend using divx/xvid. There is only a slight improvement (in file size, not quality) using x264 (the tool used to encode h264) over divx/xvid but can take 5x-10x times the processing time.

[intracube]

And I need to use 'containers' AVI or WMV (descriptions from the link are below)

So, can I do AVI-H264 ? or WMV-H264 ?

According to the Microsoft support page, the Xbox won't play h264 video in AVI or ASF/WMV containers.
Only MP4 or MOV containers support h264 video - but they only allow 2 channel audio (section A3).

I don't know much about Microsoft video formats, but creating .wmv files with VC-1 video and WMA audio might be the best option (section A4). VC-1 video seems to be the best alternative to h264 and 5.1 audio is also supported.

(but as an aside - do I WANT to do this or is is better to drop the XBOX and it's quirky ways and get another piece of kit for streaming as I don't want to convert all my DVD's this year only to wish I had done it in a better format next year)

Western Digital do a range of network media players that can play a wide range of file formats:
http://www.wdc.com/en/products/homeentertainment/mediaplayers/
I don't own one, but it's probably a better solution than the Xbox. Several forum members have them - they can advise on the pros/cons.
EDIT: Didn't notice neomaine already suggested a WDTV player.

[Snuker]

Thanks you so much for your detailed and quick replies to my questions ....

On the face of it it looks like the best option is to do as suggested and buy a WD TV Live box for just under 100 pounds and then rip DVD's at 100%/Lossless. To do anything else would be a reduction in QUALITY and would take HOURS per film to recode.

I agree, TIME is more valuable than TB of disk space so we have moved on from the time of re-encoding (a bit like the fact that we don't use ZIP programmes like we used to on word docs).

This is a shame as I have just got the XBOX and thought that I had 'reached' the point of getting rid of the actual DVD's and cases cluttering my lounge..

I will get a proper media streamer at some point but no rush and certainly no point in re-encoding my DVDs when it will take an age to do and I might as well wait until I have the proper kit. Yes, the project is on hold until I have the WD TV Live.

However .... in preparation, there is no harm in starting the long 'ol process of creating the single .vob files so that I am ready with a full NAS drive when I get around to buying the streamer.


Meanwhile, my brother has a PS3 - can a PS3 stream direct from *.VOB files? or does a PS3 ALSO need conversion/recoding/reauthoring to a new compressed format to play? If it CAN stream for the lossless/100% *.VOB file then I will loan my NAS to my bro until I have a Media Streamer.

If the PS3 cannot stream from *.VOB then I will re-encode just the kids DVD's and let them watch them via the XBOX (stops them scratching them) and leave ripping the full library to my hard drive until I have a Media Streamer next year sometime.


Does this sound a good plan?
Thanks,
C

[intracube]

On the face of it it looks like the best option is to do as suggested and buy a WD TV Live box for just under 100 pounds and then rip DVD's at 100%/Lossless. To do anything else would be a reduction in QUALITY and would take HOURS per film to recode.

As 1TB hard disks are so cheap, that makes sense. A 1TB drive should be able to store well over 100 DVDs.

This is a shame as I have just got the XBOX and thought that I had 'reached' the point of getting rid of the actual DVD's and cases cluttering my lounge.

I looked to see if there were any work arounds that would enable the Xbox to play other file formats. Unfortunately, solutions like the Xbox Media Center(XBMC), and Xbox Media Center for Xbox (XBMC4Xbox) seem to require the Xbox to be modded, and only works properly on the original Xbox - not the Xbox 360 (which I assume is what you've got):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XBMC
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XBMC4Xbox

However .... in preparation, there is no harm in starting the long 'ol process of creating the single .vob files so that I am ready with a full NAS drive when I get around to buying the streamer.

I wouldn't spend time ripping DVDs until you get a WD TV Live (or equivalent) and can check that the ripped files actually play. This thread might be useful:
http://www.avforums.com/forums/streamers-network-media-players/1142466-does-wdtv-live-play-isos.html

amazon.co.uk sells the WD TV Live for ~£80.

Meanwhile, my brother has a PS3 - can a PS3 stream direct from *.VOB files? or does a PS3 ALSO need conversion/recoding/reauthoring to a new compressed format to play? If it CAN stream for the lossless/100% *.VOB file then I will loan my NAS to my bro until I have a Media Streamer.

Searching google for ps3 vob streaming returns this:
http://www.avforums.com/forums/streamers-network-media-players/730610-streaming-vob-files-ps3.html

[Snuker]

Intracube,

Thanks for your detailed reply - much appreciated.

Good advice - wait until I have the hardware before ripping the DVD's ... the project is on hold(ish) until I get the hardware then ...

Shame about the XBOX not being the right product for all this - I am not worried about the cost but the one-box-solution would have been good - but hey ho - perhaps XBOX 360 II will do it - ?

Looks like the PS3 is able to work as I desired - perhaps the one box solution is out there ... but it is PS3 and not and XBOX !! I got the wrong console

I might loan my brother the NAS drive and rip the DVDs anyway and see whether I get a PS3 or an WDTV Live next year ....

Thanks for all of your help !!!

[mh2360]

The 360 as a simple streamer (from WMP11 to the 360) isn't that great, the lack of MPEG1/2 support is a PITA.

Used as a Media Extender from Windows 7 Media Center it's a different story. You can rip your DVDs to .MPG and stream those, or go one step further and remux them to DVR-MS and have full fast forward/rewind seekability. Either way you aren't losing any audio/video quality at all, you can easily set it up to display covers as well.



I went one step further and added two DVB-S cards to the PC, now my Xbox 360 is a PVR frontend as well.

[Snuker]

mh2360,

Thanks for that suggestion ... I don't fully understand it all but from the way I understand Win Media Centre [WMC] you need to have it running on a 'spare' computer in order for the XBOX to stream the information and do all the PVR stuff.

My files are just sitting on Network Attached Storage (i.e. a hard drive connected to my wireless router) so there is no option for WMC at the moment.

You set up looks cool though and manages to have full quality via the XBOX - good show !

[mh2360]

You don't need a dedicated PC for it to work as everything runs invisibly in the background, so your regular PC will do as long as it is of a moderate specification and you dont tax it too much while the extender is running.

For example you wouldn't want to start a heavy video encoding session while running the extender as this would likely slow things down. You also need a decent wired or "N" wireless network connection, as a regular "B/G" wireless connection might be too slow.

I'm pretty sure that WMC can access the NAS if you mount it as a network drive.

[neomaine]

...Shame about the XBOX not being the right product for all this - I am not worried about the cost but the one-box-solution would have been good - but hey ho - perhaps XBOX 360 II will do it - ? ...

It can be, and worked well for me for a couple of years. Your time is the biggest piece. Assuming DVD source:

- Rip to harddrive, 5-10 mins.
- Re-encode to divx/xvid, 20-30 mins (depending on system specs and tools)
- Play via network on 360.

If you still want to go down that route, I can give you some suggestions and there are many here that can help out.

[Snuker]

Hi neomaine,

Thanks for the advice for my whole library I will wait until I have the correct hardware to simply rip lossless from the DVD (so that I don't loose any quality and don't spend hours encoding) .... however ... meanwhile I think I WILL encode my kids DVDs so that they can choose films and stop scratching teh DVDs death!!!

So, yes please, what is the best way to rip to drive, re-encode to the best quality (for sound and vision) for XBOX 360?

I will bung the files on my NAS so the XBOX will pick it up without the need for Windows Media Centre.

Looking forward to your advice ....

C