x264 10-bit encoder experience

[leghorn]

Has anyone ever tried the 10-bit variant of x264 for 32-bit OS (WinXP actually)? As I am intending to give it a shot, I am particularly interested in opinions about processing speed/time and quality compared to x264 8-bit. I consider using bitrates ranging from 500 to 1500 kbps.

[poisondeathray]

you would need a 10-bit avc decoder to play the encode ... there aren't many available yet

it's not optimized yet (ie. slow)

quality is better at a given bitrate than the 8-bit version

you have to wait a while before it becomes more mainstream

[leghorn]

I've tried it. Took ~15 minutes for a 2-pass encode of a 2.5 minute clip (with HQ settings). The 10-bit output file plays fine in MPC with the latest ffdshow installed. Quality comparison is still to be done...

I had to do it using x264 CLI. Normally I use meGUI for conversion. But I don't know if 10-bit encoding is possible with meGUI...

[SatStorm]

A fast test I done one month ago, show me that on extreme low bitrates, 8-bit looked better. On higher bitrates, 10-bit looked more natural. But it was just a test and as poisondeathray already wrote, it's too early to have a certain opinion about it.

[poisondeathray]

One big advantage, if you used 10-bit workflow (this means a true 10-bit source, and no avisynth , which is 8-bit) , is less banding. You often see banding around gradients unless you use huge bitrates and dithering. It's very noticable in anime, but live action as well around things like skies, shadows. 10-bit allows a larger range per pixel (2^10 = 1024 instead of 2^8 = 256) so there is less quantization.

But even using an 8-bit source, 10-bit encode results in higher PSNR, SSIM at the same bitrate compared to the 8-bit encode. This didn't make sense to me at first (I thought 10-bit requires more bitrate) , but the reason is there is more accuracy in the calculations. 10-bit uncompressed would take more bitrate, but 10-bit AVC is actually more efficient

[lovelove]

quality is better at a given bitrate than the 8-bit version

obviously the opposite is the case

[poisondeathray]

quality is better at a given bitrate than the 8-bit version

obviously the opposite is the case

Nope , quality is better at the same bitrate when using a proper 10bit AVC implementation.

It's been proven by several sources and many people have confirmed it as well.



Have a look at these articles by Ateme
http://www.mediafire.com/?wy88vih0a0uc7f9


Look at this article in Broadcast Engineering, page 3
http://broadcastengineering.com/hdtv/avch-encoding/index2.html

[edDV]

Has anyone ever tried the 10-bit variant of x264 for 32-bit OS (WinXP actually)?

Help us out. Is the source 8bit or 10bit?

10 bit source suffers less processing (rounding) loss even if destination is 8bit Blu-Ray.

[graysky]

Which encoders support 10-bit ATM?

[luisppk]

Anyone who wanna give it a try, go here: http://x264.nl/


---

I'm not against technology improvement... but trying to take a jump from 8bit to 10b, is a little too early for that.

I suppose you all wanna know why.

1. There are no hardware yet to take advantage of the 10b technology. No monitor or tv. All work with 8,16,32b. Still anyone for 10b.
Maybe one new Blu-ray standalone player. (perhaps 2) But you have to buy it
So... whats the rush?
2. I still have from 3 years back, my precious dvd player with Divx capabilty. All videos I want, i got in dvd disk by downloading DD or by torrent. This last one, I often don't need to convert.
3. I download an anime video in x264 10bit. VLC can't play it. Shows a big green screen. Only Media player classic can. Besides, i tried to convert it in avi, using avysinth in virtualdub AND virtualdubmod (both). Results? Image got large colour shadows. Specially noticed when the back is one color and the front is some little object.

So...
Problems to watch at real capacity (no tv/monitor yet).
Problems to see in pc (need good pc for 10b 1080p hd) and only with Media player classic.
Problems to convert it in something else (anything)

I have no rush and really not a high quality video freak. At least, not the one that searchs in the convertion log of the video, to convince himself that one is better than other, when the human eye is mostly incapable to see a difference.

----

By the way... if someone wanna debate my point of view, is very welcome to do it so. Just don't be angry and specify your reasons. I'm not hardheaded to understand the really good ones. Maybe you can convince me.

Greetings to all.

L.
pd. I'm new. This is my first post in here.

[poisondeathray]

1. There are no hardware yet to take advantage of the 10b technology. No monitor or tv. All work with 8,16,32b. Still anyone for 10b.

10bit monitors have been available for a few years now, eg. HP DreamColor, HP ZR30w , HP LP2480zx, LG W2420R , a few others

You need full 10bit chain . This includes GFX card including software e.g. displayport, quadro

recent ffmpeg / ffplay and mplayer can play 10bit avc as well

Maybe one new Blu-ray standalone player. (perhaps 2) But you have to buy it

Blu-ray spec is still limited to 8bit; won't make a difference



But I agree it's not ready for mass adoption at the consumer level. 10bit video is standard for professional production chain.

[poisondeathray]

Which encoders support 10-bit ATM?

For 10bit AVC encoding : some x264 (if it's been build with 10bit), and mainconcept AVC (you need the SDK or reference, the bundled ones that come with software usually don't offer 10-bit encoding)

[deadrats]

maybe it's the placebo effect but i have tried the 10 bit x264 variant and i find the encoding quality to be visibly superior to 8 bit encodes, same holds true when i tried a test encode with mc's reference app.

[luisppk]

1. There are no hardware yet to take advantage of the 10b technology. No monitor or tv. All work with 8,16,32b. Still anyone for 10b.

10bit monitors have been available for a few years now, eg. HP DreamColor, HP ZR30w , HP LP2480zx, LG W2420R , a few others

You need full 10bit chain . This includes GFX card including software e.g. displayport, quadro

recent ffmpeg / ffplay and mplayer can play 10bit avc as well

Maybe you forget to tell the prices. Lets know how much these monitors cost, and then maybe we just can simply think if it is reasonable to buy it or... maybe leave it, like if they don't exist.

HP DreamColor LP2480zx Professional Monitor - us$ 2499.00 O_O! (http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF05a/382087-382087-64283-72270-3884471-3648397.html)

The LG W2420R is available priced at 1630.00 Euro (+/- us$2000) O_O!

Is there anyone out there gonna buyit just to see how good is the x264 10 bit codec?
'Cause if don't... they are not really seaching the 'good quality'

Maybe one new Blu-ray standalone player. (perhaps 2) But you have to buy it

Blu-ray spec is still limited to 8bit; won't make a difference

There is only one blu-ray available. I just knew this week but since 'm not interested i dropped the data. I'll try to find out which one is, but i'm warning that the price is really scary.

But I agree it's not ready for mass adoption at the consumer level. 10bit video is standard for professional production chain.

Hey! Thats good!
But, we all use that kind of video to take it home. In my case, by a previous video conversion. Sooooo.... we are all 'screw...' T_T