WMV to DV (AVI) for ADVC-300 to TV conversion

[rd0591]

A question I'm trying to formulate to ask on the various video help forums is how to best convert a WMV file to DV so that it is playable by WinDV or the Enosoft DV Processor to output to the ADVC-300 to show on a TV.

The only program that I've had any success with so far is Microsoft's Windows Movie Maker. WinDV can play its output file to the ADVC-300 which shows on the TV. The Enosoft DV Processor can play that same file, but it doesn't end up showing on the TV.

WinFF using the "dvntsc" preset "Raw DV for NTSC Fullscreen" resulted in a file that would play in Enosoft DV Processor, and get to the TV, but with no sound.

In more detail, the WMV is:
Video
ID : 2
Format : VC-1
Format profile : MP@ML
Codec ID : WMV3
Codec ID/Info : Windows Media Video 9
Codec ID/Hint : WMV3
Description of the codec : Windows Media Video 9
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 410 Kbps
Width : 640 pixels
Height : 360 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.059

And WMM's converted to DV-AVI is:

Video
ID : 0
Format : DV
Duration : 1h 42mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 24.4 Mbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Standard : NTSC
Chroma subsampling : 4:1:1
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced

--- Video Information ---
Video Codec Type(e.g. "DIV3"): dvsd
Video Codec Name(e.g. "DivX 3, Low-Motion"): DVC/DV Video
Video Codec Status(e.g. "Codec Is Installed"): Codec(s) are Installed
Duration (hh:mms): 1:42:15
Frame Count: 183851
Frame Width (pixels): 720
Frame Height (pixels): 480
Storage Aspect Ratio("SAR")" 1.500
Pixel Aspect Ratio ("PAR"): 0.889
Display Aspect Ratio ("DAR"): 1.333
Fields Per Second: 59.940
Frames Per Second: 29.970
Pics Per Second: 29.970
Video Bitrate (kbps): 6973
Quality Factor (bits/pixel)/frame: 0.673"

--- Aspect Ratio Related ---

Broadcast standard: "NTSC" (else blank) NTSC
src:"VCD", "SVCD", "CVD", or "DVD (else blank): DVD
Instructions to convert to VCD, first part: Resize to 360 x 240 ( w:[1/2] h:[1/2] )
Instructions to convert to VCD, second part: Trim 4 from each side for 352 x 240
Instructions to convert to SVCD, first part: Resize to 480 x 480 ( w:[2/3] h:[1/1] )
Instructions to convert to SVCD, second part: No cropping req'd
Instructions to convert to CVD, first part: Resize to 360 x 480 ( w:[1/2] h:[1/1] )
Instructions to convert to CVD, second part: Trim 4 from each side for 352 x 480
Instructions to convert to DVD, first part: No resize req'd
Instructions to convert to DVD, second part: No cropping req'd
Instructions to convert to AVI, first part: Resize to 656 x 480 (Use +/- for other target sizes)
Instructions to convert to AVI, second part: Crop off any non-picture areas, if req'd

[DB83]

Hmmn.

If I read you correctly you are attempting to use an ADVC as a break-out box betweeen the tv output of your video card and your tv.

If, at the end, you actually see a picture on the tv it certainly will not be DV as the ADVC only has analogue connectors.

If that DV you have created is of good quality then a more straight forward option may be to make a dvd from that to play on the tv.

[rd0591]

No, the ADVC-300 and computer are connected by a 1394/Firewire cable. I use it primarily for analog to digital conversion, but have a need to display WMV files on the TV, with as little processing time as possible. The transcoding of WMV to MPEG-2 for DVD takes longer, plus the time to write to a DVD-R.

Windows Movie Maker can do the conversion from WMV to NTSC DV, but is a "black box" and I would prefer to be able to do what it is doing with other software. (E.g., I have Pinnacle studio 12, but get PAL output rather than NTSC.) I have a variety of video converter software on my computer, but haven't been able to find the right settings.

The conversion has to be proper enough for either WinDV for the Enosoft DV Processor to play it, as then it can be directed to the ADVC-300 as a "Microsoft DV Camera and VCR" device.

[DB83]

The 'Black Box' may be your only option.

Before your post I had not read of anyone use a Canopus in this way but after a little experimentation it does seem to work but with a major caveat as you have found out.

Now it will take someone with a lot more knowledge of DV to explain this one but this is what I have discovered.

1. A DV 'captured' using WinDv will playback with no issue - sound and video is fine.
2. A DV converted with Windows Movie Maker will playback with no issue - sound and video is fine. Except that WMM will not allow (apparently) you to alter the destination type. That is to say as I am UK based, and my Windows is set for the UK, it will only create a PAL DV.
3. A DV converted with Ulead selecting its default DV codec or a Canopus Codec or even Vegas and even after forcing that to use the Microsoft codec will not work - the strange thing here is that even with these settings the codec was still reported to be 'Sony' so something may not have worked as it should have.

So it's down to the codec. It seems that most programs will use their own default. You now need someone to tell you which one will use the Microsoft one in the same way as Windows Movie Maker does. Or just settle for WMM which does work

[rd0591]

WinFF's "dvntsc" preset "Raw DV for NTSC Fullscreen" sends the options "-target ntsc-dv -aspect 4:3 -f dv" to ffmpeg, which according to the various guides I've seen should work, but my test of that yielded a file that the Enosoft DV Processor can load, and play the video, but the audio somehow isn't handled, and doesn't get to the TV.


(The WinFF forums are down for maintenance, and the Enosoft forums are locked, so I'm not sure where to ask for help. WinDV wants an AVI container, it seems, and if forced to load the file, reports "Error.")


So, there might be some other options to send to ffmpeg that would successfully do the conversion, which is why I'm posing the question. Even though Windows Movie Maker can do the conversion correctly, I'd like a non-Microsoft solution.


(Meanwhile, the AllToAVI program uses Mencoder, which also may be able to do the conversion if given the proper parameters.)

The WinFF experiment details are:

Format                           : DV
Format_Commercial_IfAny          : DVCPRO
File size                        : 13.8 GiB
Duration                         : 1h 8mn
Overall bit rate                 : 28.8 Mbps

Video
Format                           : DV
Format_Commercial_IfAny          : DVCPRO
Duration                         : 1h 8mn
Bit rate mode                    : Constant
Bit rate                         : 24.4 Mbps
Width                            : 720 pixels
Height                           : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio             : 4:3
Frame rate mode                  : Constant
Frame rate                       : 29.970 fps
Standard                         : NTSC
Chroma subsampling               : 4:1:1
Bit depth                        : 8 bits
Scan type                        : Interlaced
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)               : 2.357
Stream size                      : 11.7 GiB (85%)

Audio
ID                               : 0
Format                           : PCM
Duration                         : 1h 8mn
Bit rate mode                    : Constant
Bit rate                         : 1 536 Kbps
Channel(s)                       : 2 channels
Sampling rate                    : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                        : 16 bits
Stream size                      : 754 MiB (5%)

--- Container Information ---
Base Type (e.g "AVI"):           Raw DV - SMPTE 314M(.DV)

--- Video Information ---
Video Codec Type(e.g. "DIV3"):            DV/DVC
Video Codec Name(e.g. "DivX 3, Low-Motion"):    DV (SMPTE 314M)
Video Codec Status(e.g. "Codec Is Installed"):  Codec Status Undetermined
Frame Width (pixels):                 720
Frame Height (pixels):                480
Storage Aspect Ratio("SAR")"            1.500
Pixel Aspect Ratio ("PAR"):             0.889
Display Aspect Ratio ("DAR"):           1.333

[DB83]

Any DV avi should 'work' and since the ones that you have tried and the ones which I have quoted do not can only be down to one thing - how the application Windv handles the codec.

Like I said, it handles it's own perfectly well and the Microsoft one. There are other DV codecs, Panasonic have one, there is also an open source one, etc. So you may wish to try them - as long as your conversion program allows you to select the codec other than its own default one.

The progran AlltoAVI appears only to convert to Divx/Xvid so would not be appropiate.

[rd0591]

Watching a WMM converted file vs. a DVD (made by Pinnacle Studio 12) showed that WMM has that square pixel vs. rectangular pixel problem - the output is squeezed so that people look too thin. The DVD didn't have that problem, but the video quality was lower.

My mention of the AllToAVI program was that it uses MEncoder, which seems to be equal in power and complexity to ffmpeg, the idea being that maybe either of those programs, give the "correct" parameters, could to the conversion I need.

[DB83]

I really do not think the problem is the parameters.

Your source video has a DAR of 16:9. The DV you created was 4:3 and probably full-frame which has the same effect a squeezed anamorphic video. I was able to create both this type of DV and one which letter-boxed the video in a 4:3 frame so it correctly played back on a monitor. However, as I said, none of these DV's other than the one created by WMM, which did not letter-box, would not 'record' back.

WMM uses the Microsoft DV codec. The others used different ones. Find a converter that uses the Ms codec and I believe your problems will be over.

[DB83]

I'll keep the above post as someone is sure to have read it but, having played around a little more, I have just made a discovery which rather has resulted in a lot of 'head scratching'

1. Took another look at WMM and under Tools/Options there are all sorts of settings you can change. So the program is not the 'Black Box' as you put it.

Now the other day I did create a DV which would 'record' back. The DV was Pal format although I had chosen an NTSC source to simulate your problem. I now found the NTSC setting in WMM, created another DV, and in would NOT 'record' back.

I also realised that all the DVs I created in Vegas were also NTSC. Fired up Vegas - still with the Ms codec setting - but now created a Pal DV and this time it 'records' back.

I also did similar experiments with Procoder. Canopus codecs would not work either NTSC or PAL. But again selecting a PAL Ms Codec DV it, once again, 'recorded' back.

So, for me, the issue seems to be two-fold.

1. The DV MUST be created with the Ms DV codec.
2. The DV MUST be PAL.

Both programs also created correct aspect-ratio videos in a 4:3 frame.

You stated, in the initial post, that your converted video was NTSC so that may well be fine for you. It does not work for me hence the head-scratching. But I hope I now leave you with more food for thought.

[rd0591]

Yes, I see that in WMM's Options I can set the aspect ratio, which should correct the thick/thin poblem.

The "Compatibilty" tab has a filter list, which reminded me that I have ffdshow on my computer.
Would ffdshow help out in either WMM or WinDV?

[DB83]

I do not see it making any difference. The clips that 'recorded' through WinDv without ffdshow also did so with it. The others did not - with or without ffdshow.