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  1. Member
    Join Date: Oct 2001
    Location: United Kingdom
    Search Comp PM
    Hi guys

    Had a bit of time on my hands today, so tried out something I'd been wanting to try for a while - converting a PAL DVD to 24p.

    Managed to get the video changed to 23.976fps easily by altering the header information with restream
    Used eac3to to slow down the audio whilst retaining the 5.1 sound

    Next step - subtitles.

    Now, not being srt, I guess these are far more tricky.

    media info reports them as:

    Text
    Format : VobSub
    Codec ID : S_VOBSUB
    Codec ID/Info : The same subtitle format used on DVDs
    Language : English

    Is there a quick and easy way to change these so they display at the correct times?

    Thanks
    Nick
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  2. I'm a Super Moderator johns0's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2002
    Location: canada
    Search Comp PM
    Those are idx/sub subtitles,BDSup2Sub can change them from 25fps to 23.976fps,If you need to rip the subs out you can use VSRip for that.

    Even though you changed the header to 23.976fps the video will still be 720x576 and your dvd player might not play it properly or at all,best to convert to 720x480@23.976fps.
    I think,therefore i am a hamster.
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  3. Member
    Join Date: Oct 2001
    Location: United Kingdom
    Search Comp PM
    Thanks very much, will give it a try when I get a chance
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  4. Also, SubtitleCreator in its Synchronize section can do an instant framerate conversion for VobSub and SUP subtitle files. It can also convert from one to the other. I have no idea what you plan on using to reauthor the NTSC disc (and as johns0 said, you'll have to reencode to change the resolution of the video), but very few authoring programs accept VobSubs as input. For Muxman (and IFOEdit) authoring you'll want SUP files. Also, just slowing the video to 23.976fps isn't enough as NTSC DVDs require interlaced 29.97fps output. You'll also need to apply pulldown.
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  5. Member
    Join Date: Oct 2001
    Location: United Kingdom
    Search Comp PM
    Thanks manono

    My intention is to have them as mkv's, or possibly leave as vobs.
    To be honest, I was only playing around with this idea to see if it was possible. One day in the future I may convert all my PAL DVDs to 24p, and I thought I'd see if it was technically possible.
    I have no intention of burning them back to disc, so no problem with the 29.97 required for NTSC.
    I know there may be compatibility issues with the resolution, but so far the three ways I have played them (VLCplayer, LG Bluray BD390, Sumvision Cyclone media enclosure) have been successful. This was as an mpg file - I haven't tried as an mkv yet.
    Original clip is 3:40 in duration and the new one is 3:50.
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  6. Right, for MPEGs or MKVs there's no problem. I was thinking you'd be making an NTSC DVD from the PAL DVD.
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  7. Member
    Join Date: Oct 2001
    Location: United Kingdom
    Search Comp PM
    OK, first I tried BDsup2sub, and couldn't get it to work as my version of Java is not working properly and the update is not working (something to do with proxy settings) so I'm leaving that for now. Maybe I'll try on my newer PC another time.

    I then tried SubtitleCreator which loads up fine, but when I point it to the sub file (there is an idx file also) it just says:

    Error reading subtitle number 1.|<i>(input string was not in a correct format)

    Now could this be something to do with my test file being a clip from a film I took from a DVD using DVDShrink? It was about 3 minutes of footage starting about half way through the film.
    Is it worth trying with a complete film, or should I try BDsup2Sub on my other PC?

    Any input appreciated.
    Nick
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  8. Yes, it could be because you cut it out from the movie. I suggest trying to fix it by loading it into SubResynch (included as part of the VobSub package) and then saving it as IDX/SUB (VobSubs). It should fix anything screwy about it. Then try again with SubtitleCreator.
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  9. Member
    Join Date: Oct 2001
    Location: United Kingdom
    Search Comp PM
    This is proving to be much more challenging than the video and audio tracks!

    OK, so far I have managed to get mkvextract to demux the sub and idx track from the mkv. I load this into subresync and it gives me the timeindex of subtitles (although other boxes show "unknown"), so it's seeing them fine. However resaving the file as a sub/idx doesn't seem to make any difference - subtitlecreator still won't touch it.
    Am I missing a step with subresync? All I seem to be doing is opening the file and saving it again.

    Would I be better to use my other PC and have a go with BDsup2sub, or try the same process with a complete mkv rather than one that was made from a clip?

    Thanks for the help so far!
    Nick
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  10. No, it sounds like you followed the procedure correctly. I'm sorry it didn't work for you. I have one other idea. Also included in the VobSub package is the little Sub File Cutter utility. It has the ability to change the framerate (in this case from 25fps to 23.976fps, which I think is what you want). Try that one instead. You might compare the timestamps before and after by opening the IDX in Notepad to compare. For a 100 minute movie, the final times will be separated by about 4 minutes.
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  11. Member
    Join Date: Oct 2001
    Location: United Kingdom
    Search Comp PM
    manono that worked perfectly. Thanks very much!
    If I get time over the next few weeks I might write a guide for converting PAL DVDs to 24p mkvs or vobs.
    Now that I know a method it's not really that time consuming. Longest part is re-encoding the audio.

    Nick
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  12. Well, if for VOBs, meaning authored for DVD, you'll also have to reencode to 720x480, in addition to slowing the audio to NTSC speed. If only for MPG, that won't be necessary. No one has ever said that converting PAL to NTSC is all that difficult. It's trying to convert and keep the DVD menus at the same time that's the difficult part.

    I'm glad you got the job done. I apologize for sidetracking you briefly.
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  13. easysubtitlesynchronizer
    SubtitleProcessor

    Both work well
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  14. Member
    Join Date: Oct 2001
    Location: United Kingdom
    Search Comp PM
    Hi all

    Resurrecting this 5 year old thread (!) as I am now the proud owner of an i7 based system, and therefore plan on doing this for the majority of my DVD sourced MKVs.

    To summarise so far...

    Demuxed all streams from mkv (originally created from a DVD using makemkv)
    Successfully converted the video from 25fps MPEG2 to 23.976fps x264 (didn't plan on converting to x264 originally, but for a number of reasons have now decided to)
    I can "stretch" the audio to match
    I can stretch the subs to match.
    I can successfully create a new mkv with all these elements using mkvmerge.

    Now, to make the "perfect" mkv, all I need to do is convert the chapter information.

    Are there any utilities to do this?

    I also tried adding back the original xml file for chapters using mkvmerge, but it doesn't like it for some reason. I'm not sure if this is a second stumbling block?

    Any help greatfully received!

    Nick
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  15. Originally Posted by nick1977 View Post
    Now, to make the "perfect" mkv, all I need to do is convert the chapter information.

    Are there any utilities to do this?
    Not that I'm aware. Maybe someone else knows better but I've always converted manually, chapter-by-chapter.
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  16. Member newpball's Avatar
    Join Date: Oct 2014
    Location: Northern California
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    Originally Posted by johns0 View Post
    Those are idx/sub subtitles,BDSup2Sub can change them from 25fps to 23.976fps,
    That's a cool tool!
    "4K? We don't need no stinkin' 4K!"
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  17. Member
    Join Date: Oct 2001
    Location: United Kingdom
    Search Comp PM
    Thanks again manono.

    I have a few ideas following some Google exploration and will post back here for the benefit of others if successful.

    Nick
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  18. I've read of people creating their own spreadsheet chapter conversion apps but haven't ever used one myself. In addition, what will work for one authoring program might not work for another because different authoring programs ask for the chapters in different formats.
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  19. Member
    Join Date: Oct 2001
    Location: United Kingdom
    Search Comp PM
    I've found this little app called mkvchaptereditor - can be found here

    Managed to get it to open the idx file OK, but it's talking about dragging and dropping chapter information from the B&N website. Now I've found that site (or at least I think I have!) here . This is a link to the US version of the actual DVD I am experimenting with.

    I thought from the guide on the chaptereditor site that I just need to drag and drop the chapter information in. Now either the B&N site has changed, or I am doing something wrong as I can't get it to drag and drop anything...

    On a side note, you can edit the chapter timings manually in this editor, but given the amount of titles I am going to convert (300+) this is not really an option for me. In fact, even the manual searching of the chapter info and dropping it in is potentially adding a considerable amount more manual work!

    I have managed to find out how to add the chapter information back to the mkv successfully, so at least that's one hurdle out of the way.

    Will keep trying different things and report back any findings.

    Many thanks
    Nick
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  20. Member
    Join Date: Oct 2001
    Location: United Kingdom
    Search Comp PM
    Not had much joy manually adjusting the chapter information, BUT have come across www.chapterdb.org which seems to contain a large number of entries for films I have.
    Successfully downloaded the xml file for my test film and it works fine.

    Many thanks all.

    I'll check back here at some point in case anyone has any revelations about adjusting the original file, but for now I think this is the easiest solution for me.

    Nick
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