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  1. Hi, Im using the free DVD Video Converter by DVDVideoSoft to rip a DVD and although I find this software super easy to use and Im using the highest quality setting to produce an .AVI....I am getting horizontal lines during motion sequences... (is this called "combing"?). This makes my files unuseable for presentation.

    Is there anything I can use to fix this on the .AVI that was produced? Or...I am also open to using other software if better results will be achieved (such as quality that will match the DVD).

    I have Premiere Pro CS5...is there anything I can do with that to help?

    Looking forward to your suggestions, and finding something that works, as I have many of my stage performances on DVD that I need to convert to files.

    Thanks!
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  2. I'm a MEGA Super Moderator Baldrick's Avatar
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    It might be easy but it doesn't seem to be that good if it can't handle interlaced dvds. Try instead AutoGK or Staxrip (follow a guide if you get any problems).
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  3. Member b1tbull's Avatar
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    Any special reason to stick with AVI ? ( check this : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_Video_Interleave )
    If you can live with MKV check out makeMKV or Handbrake.
    Makemkv ( free for now ) rips the main program directly from DVD but does not transcode ( output = mpeg2 and selected audio + subtitles )
    Handbrake ( open source ) requires a DVD access tool ( some are free also ) , transcodes to mpeg4 or h.264 and has plenty of audio/video/subtitles settings including some advanced deinterlace and decomb filters.
    Periculum in mora
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  4. These programs are so complicated! I've been playing with video for years but now I feel like a newbie! I dont think MKV will be a good format for me. If my intent is to take a portion of a DVD, and NOT edit it, Im guessing I would want to make an MPG H.264? And if I want to edit it, same? But if I want to keep a high-res archive file of what I ripped, wouldnt I want to use AVI?
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  5. Member b1tbull's Avatar
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    If you want simple uncompressed copy of DVD in a future proof container makemkv is the way to go ( and free for the time being ).
    The interface is very simple :

    - put the DVD in a drive
    - have MKV analyze it
    - select chapters and audio
    - hit the "make MKV " button.

    Both video and audio are copied "as is" , just wrapped into an MKV container.
    Further processing if needed can be done with one of the many other tools already mentioned here.

    Originally Posted by metrosuperstar View Post
    These programs are so complicated! I've been playing with video for years but now I feel like a newbie! I dont think MKV will be a good format for me. If my intent is to take a portion of a DVD, and NOT edit it, Im guessing I would want to make an MPG H.264? And if I want to edit it, same? But if I want to keep a high-res archive file of what I ripped, wouldnt I want to use AVI?
    Periculum in mora
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  6. Is there any advantage to ripping to MKV rather than just VOBs?

    Also, are all VOBs extracting programs equal in terms of the end quality of the VOBs? For instance, if I rip to VOB using DVDDecrypter, will I get the same quality as if I rip using DVD Fab? It would be nice to know that for that step, all softwares are created equal...
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  7. Mod Neophyte Super Moderator redwudz's Avatar
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    You might try out XviD4PSP, it's fairly easy to use. It can convert a decrypted DVD VIDEO_TS file to a MKV file with a fairly small file size and not much loss in quality. MKV is a much more advanced codec than Xvid/Divx for compression. You might try it.

    Almost no highly compressed format is good for editing, Xvid, Divx, H.264 included. You want to do that in a less compressed format most times.

    But if you just want to convert a DVD main movie to a archive file, H.264 does very well.

    Quick and easy with XviD4PSP, pick 'DVD', find the decrypted VIDEO_TS folder and use 'x264 Q21 HQ Film' video settings and use 'Copy' for the audio settings and see how it looks.

    Other settings may work better, depending on your PC capabilities.
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  8. Mod Neophyte Super Moderator redwudz's Avatar
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    A VOB is just a MPEG with some extras. (Subs, menus, alternate audio and languages, etc.) If you extract the MPEG, all extraction programs should do it equally. I usually use VOB2MPG, but I have AnyDVD running in the background to take care of decryption. They all just 'remove' the MPEG hiding in the VOB container.

    The advantage to using the MKV format for me is small filesize. A 700MB MPEG-2 can often be reduced to ~400MB with little quality loss. You can't 'rip' to MKV, you need to encode to that format.
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  9. Originally Posted by redwudz View Post
    A VOB is just a MPEG with some extras. (Subs, menus, alternate audio and languages, etc.) If you extract the MPEG, all extraction programs should do it equally. I usually use VOB2MPG, but I have AnyDVD running in the background to take care of decryption. They all just 'remove' the MPEG hiding in the VOB container.

    The advantage to using the MKV format for me is small filesize. A 700MB MPEG-2 can often be reduced to ~400MB with little quality loss. You can't 'rip' to MKV, you need to encode to that format.
    Your methodology sounds great, and I have used VOB2MPG before. But because I was getting those horizontal lines during motion, I thought the problem was with VOB2MPG. Have you faced a similar problem, and if so, how did you resolve it?
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    I presume what you have experienced is that the DVD playback on your PC is fine, but once ripped with VOB2MPG the resulting file displays with combing artifacts?

    It would probably be helpful to post what programs and codecs are being used for playback.
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    playing it back on a pc media player provides no information - the software might be ivtcing or deinterlacing on the fly

    you need to use the correct sequence settings, or everything you export will have a problem

    you would export as interlaced for dvd, and deinterlace for web export. Notice all this is done in the export stage, you don't change the sequence settings

    this all assumes your dvd was interlaced , not telecined. If it was telecined, you would IVTC (inverse telecine) ,and everything would be progressive (sequence settings, export settings)
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  12. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    playing it back on a pc media player provides no information - the software might be ivtcing or deinterlacing on the fly

    you need to use the correct sequence settings, or everything you export will have a problem

    you would export as interlaced for dvd, and deinterlace for web export. Notice all this is done in the export stage, you don't change the sequence settings

    this all assumes your dvd was interlaced , not telecined. If it was telecined, you would IVTC (inverse telecine) ,and everything would be progressive (sequence settings, export settings)
    Thanks so much poisondeathray! Your explanation is clear.

    I just have a few more question.

    1. If you are NOT planning on editing the footage you ripped, should you still bring it into Premiere just so that you get rid of the combing thru the export process?
    2. And does this mean that the playback on the PC (ie. iTunes or Windows Media Player) will then be "fixed" and without the combing effect?
    3. How would I know if something is telecined? For instance if I ordered an instructional DVD from the USA, would it be telecined or are only motion pictures telecined?
    Once again thanks for sharing your knowledge.
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    1) you don't have to use premiere , you could use any number of programs, but you first have to figure out if it's interlaced or telecined

    2) yes you can "fix" it. But if you deinterlace , you can bob deinterlace or single rate deinterlace. 60i footage is 59.94 fields per second, or 29.97 frames per second . When you deinterlace you throw out half that information, and motion is a lot choppier (30 vs. 60) . If you bob deinterlace you can make it 60p, but DVD-video doesn't support 60p only 60i . Avi files if played on PC could be kept interlaced , or bob deinterlaced to 60p , or single rate deinterlaced to 30p - you can do anything if your goal is PC

    And if it was telecined, and you inverse telecined, it would return the progressive frames

    DVD-video doesn't support anything natively progressive. 24p is in 60i (that's what telecine is). You need that 60i signal to be NTSC DVD compliant.

    Deinterlacing degrades quality, and the high quality filters take a long,long time to process . You only deinterlace if you have to (e.g. for web)

    3) instructional dvd will likely be interlaced , not telecined. Movies shot on film have a film rate of 24p (e.g. hollywood movies) . Instructional video will be shot as video likely, not film , but there are exceptions.

    To determine if something is interlaced or telecined , I use avisynth and examine individual fields (not frames)
    http://neuron2.net/faq.html
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  14. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    1) you don't have to use premiere , you could use any number of programs, but you first have to figure out if it's interlaced or telecined

    To determine if something is interlaced or telecined , I use avisynth and examine individual fields (not frames)
    http://neuron2.net/faq.html

    Ooh lala, that AVISynth looks complicated! I suppose I could instead experiment with different sequence settings in Premiere until I figure out if Im dealing with interlaced footage? Is AVISynth really worth the learning curve if Im pressed for time?

    BTW, what would NOT be shot interlaced?
    Do modern consumer camcorders shoot interlaced or deinterlaced?
    Is deinterlaced same thing as progressive?
    Does HD have anything to do with interlaced/deinterlaced?


    THanks.
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    Ooh lala, that AVISynth looks complicated! I suppose I could instead experiment with different sequence settings in Premiere until I figure out if Im dealing with interlaced footage? Is AVISynth really worth the learning curve if Im pressed for time?

    BTW, what would NOT be shot interlaced?
    Do modern consumer camcorders shoot interlaced or deinterlaced?
    Is deinterlaced same thing as progressive?
    Does HD have anything to do with interlaced/deinterlaced?
    you can do whatever you want , you might be able to fiddle with the settings and get it right it will be faster than taking a couple hours to learn the avisynth basics ... but then again it sounds to me you are new at using premiere too...

    If you want to learn the proper way, eventually you will have to examine fields. You can't do that in premiere

    Modern consumer camcorders shoot interlaced, and their "24p" mode is 24p in 60i or telecined. Only "prosumer" and "pro" camcorders and DSLR's shoot native progressive

    If you have interlaced footage and you deinterlace it, the result is progressive. But remember deinterlacing degrades quality - and if you don't do it properly you throw out 1/2 the information, and most programs use very poor quality deinterlacers. The high quality ones are very slow to process, but the quality is much better (and of course they are avisynth based)

    HD has nothing to do with interlace/progressive/telecined . You can have SD or HD and one of those. HD refers to the frame size , height > 576 pixels.

    Premiere will separate fields when you look at the preview (just like a media player would deinterlace on the fly), so it's not representative of what you really have either. You have to use the proper sequence settings and export settings or you will get poor results
    Last edited by poisondeathray; 15th Sep 2010 at 22:48.
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  16. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    you can do whatever you want , you might be able to fiddle with the settings and get it right it will be faster than taking a couple hours to learn the avisynth basics ... but then again it sounds to me you are new at using premiere too...
    Not new....just super rusty!

    Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post

    If you have interlaced footage and you deinterlace it, the result is progressive. But remember deinterlacing degrades quality - and if you don't do it properly you throw out 1/2 the information, and most programs use very poor quality deinterlacers. The high quality ones are very slow to process, but the quality is much better (and of course they are avisynth based).
    Are you saying that Premiere will do a crappy job at deinterlacing? Would the average person notice this or just someone like you who is an expert in this and can "see" subtle loss of quality? I think I've deinterlaced in Vegas Pro and Premiere before and I didnt think that the footage had degraded that much....

    Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    Premiere will separate fields when you look at the preview (just like a media player would deinterlace on the fly), so it's not representative of what you really have either. You have to use the proper sequence settings and export settings or you will get poor results
    Wow! Are you saying that the Preview window in Premiere is not even representative of what you will get once you export? (So it will be of no value whatsoever when determining if there will be combing in the final output?)
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    Originally Posted by metrosuperstar View Post
    Are you saying that Premiere will do a crappy job at deinterlacing? Would the average person notice this or just someone like you who is an expert in this and can "see" subtle loss of quality? I think I've deinterlaced in Vegas Pro and Premiere before and I didnt think that the footage had degraded that much....
    Both vegas and premiere are garbage at deinterlacing. Do a search , many people have posted comparisons at this forum and many others . I've posted several myself

    CS5 is slightly improved, if you use MRQ, but it's still slightly worse than an "average" avisynth deinterlacer

    Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    Premiere will separate fields when you look at the preview (just like a media player would deinterlace on the fly), so it's not representative of what you really have either. You have to use the proper sequence settings and export settings or you will get poor results
    Wow! Are you saying that the Preview window in Premiere is not even representative of what you will get once you export? (So it will be of no value whatsoever when determining if there will be combing in the final output?)
    It depends on what you settings are for sequence and export. It's only valuable if you know what it means or how to use premiere. Even if it shows no combing, you can get combing on the export . An example of this if you use wrong export settings

    You have to understand how premiere works and what the preview is actually showing you. You have to understand fields vs. frames . This is critical.

    If you have interlaced footage (like the majority of consumer camcorder footage) , and you are looking at the preview, it won't show combing or those lines, because you are looking at a separated field. It separates the fields, because you can't edit in field mode. You have to look at full frames. If you export interlaced (like you would for DVD) , you won't see the combing , unless you watch on a progressive display (you will be seeing 2 fields offset) , but you would just activate a deinterlacer if this was on a computer. 100% of blu-ray and dvd players will play it without seeing the combing

    Deinterlacing when you shouldn't is even worse, you will end up with jaggy lines and horrbile quality. There are many examples of that too , when people use premiere incorrectly
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    If you're going to rip and convert NTSC DVDs, it might be worth understanding the difference between hard and soft telecine.

    The link below gives quite a good explanation.

    http://trac.handbrake.fr/wiki/Telecine
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    You really need to create interlaced DVDs if the video is interlaced or telecined. Yeah, you can IVTC, but for home projects, that may be more trouble than it's worth.

    This would take more time to explain than I have available.

    Poison's giving you some good info. So good luck!
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  20. If I understand correctly, its best to rip a DVD to VOBs on the hard drive, then convert to MPG-2, and then to examine the fields to see if deinterlacing is required, correct? (DVDDecrypter --> VOB2MPG --> AVISynth)

    So programs like Xillisoft DVD Ripper are therefore useless with their apparent ability to go directly from DVD to AVI or MP4 or MPG? Because they skip the step of deinterlacing...which makes them more prone to creating rips that contain combing effect...is this correct?
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    I would use dvdfab or anydvd . Dvddecrypter hasn't been updated in a few years and may fail with some copy protections

    I don't know what xilisoft does, but it has a pretty poor reputation around here

    If you want something easy to use , but better than xilisoft, try autogk for xvid/avi , or handbrake, or xvid4psp - they can make errors too, but are less prone.

    The best way is to examine it manually looking at the field pattern - because no autodetection scheme is 100% perfect. Only human eyes can get it correct.
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  22. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    I would use dvdfab or anydvd . Dvddecrypter hasn't been updated in a few years and may fail with some copy protections

    I don't know what xilisoft does, but it has a pretty poor reputation around here

    If you want something easy to use , but better than xilisoft, try autogk for xvid/avi , or handbrake, or xvid4psp - they can make errors too, but are less prone.

    The best way is to examine it manually looking at the field pattern - because no autodetection scheme is 100% perfect. Only human eyes can get it correct.
    Lots of people talk about using AnyDVD IN CONJUNCTION WITH DVDDecrypter or CloneDVD but really, you can use AnyDVD on its own to rip, correct? Why would people need to use it conjunction with anything else?
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    Yes, anydvd just works in the background. You can use it with other programs . But you might want functionality of other programs - maybe some people wanted to rip in IFO mode for example, for individual titles. You can just as easily use it alone and copy the whole disc
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  24. OK, so I ripped the DVD to my PC as VOBs (using AnyDVD by itself because there was no encryption), and I plan to edit various scenes in Premiere by adding graphics, titles, color filters, etc.

    I will be exporting for Web, DVD, and perhaps iPhone.

    My question is...

    Now that I have VOBs on my hard drive, and considering that I want to work with the best quality source files in Premiere (which I will export to a number of media such as DVD, Web, etc), what file format should I convert the VOBs into? 2 years ago it was MPG2.

    Is MPG2 still the best format to work with in Premiere to edit with least compression or would it now be better as MP4? Or something else I am not aware of?
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  25. The video in VOB files is already MPEG 2 data. All you need to do is remux into an MPG container. VOB2MPG, Mpg2cut2, etc.
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    mpeg2 is fine, but don't re-encode (lose quality, generation loss) . You could use mpg2cut2 or videoredo to pre-edit clips

    "mp4" is just a container, and provides no information about the video compression

    lossless avi is another option (e.g. huffyuv, ut video codec) , but there is not reason to unless you are preprocessing with other filters - you can import the native files (premiere has been able to work with native mpeg2 for years)

    make sure you use matching sequence settings (e.g. interlaced if your assets are interlaced , upper field first if it's UFF, etc....)
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  27. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    mpeg2 is fine, but don't re-encode (lose quality, generation loss) .
    Thanks...however, when you are exporting from Premiere (ex. to MP4 or FLV or something else...) are you not "re-encoding"?

    (hopefully this is my last question!)
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    Originally Posted by metrosuperstar View Post
    Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    mpeg2 is fine, but don't re-encode (lose quality, generation loss) .
    Thanks...however, when you are exporting from Premiere (ex. to MP4 or FLV or something else...) are you not "re-encoding"?
    yes you are . I was referring to when you import mpeg2 . (vob is already mpeg2, so don't be using some software to re-encode to mpeg2 - unecessary quality loss) . Premiere doesn't like it when it's still wrapped in vob format, you need either elementary stream (.m2v video) , or mpeg2-program stream (.mpeg, .mpg) , or mpeg2-transport stream (.m2t, .m2ts)

    assuming it's interlaced, you decide upon export whether or not to deinterlace (sequence settings almost always should be set to what the asset is) e.g. if it was for a dvd you would leave it interlaced , it was flv for web, you would deinterlace

    cs5 can ivtc, but it's unreliable. If you had a telecined dvd, I would use another application to ivtc (like avisynth), then import a lossless avi. Earlier versions cannot handle it at all
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  29. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post

    yes you are . I was referring to when you import mpeg2 . (vob is already mpeg2, so don't be using some software to re-encode to mpeg2 - unecessary quality loss) .
    is VOB2MPG ok to achieve the task safely and without re-encoding?
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    yes, it doesn't re-encode
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