VideoHelp Forum
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2
1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 54
Thread
  1. Hi, I am attempting to digitalise some of my NTSC tapes... Problem is, they will appear distorted in WinTV but look alright on my TV and VCR (both can play PAL and NTSC).

    The only workaround I got so far was to hook the "Out to TV" port of my VCR to the Cable in port of the card. The NTSC tapes will no longer be distorted but they become black and white.

    So am I supposed to get a NTSC TV card/VCR to get over this issue entirely? I was told that this occurs as the signal being transmitted to my TV card is a PAL/60 signal, which it cannot read entirely...

    Thanks!
    Last edited by darkarn; 8th Aug 2010 at 23:43.
    Quote Quote  
  2. Member hech54's Avatar
    Join Date: Jul 2001
    Location: Yank in Europe
    Search Comp PM
    I've tried WinTV with no luck(PAL PVR-350) and have tried ChrisTV with black & White results trying to record a PAL60 signal(NTSC tape in a European VCR). Some say PAL Hauppauge cards can record a true NTSC signal via S-video(?) but I tried that a few years ago....also with no luck.
    Quote Quote  
  3. Something tells me we are out of luck... =(

    But then again, why the same thing also happen when I tried using the TV out port from the TV to the composite ports on the TV card?
    Quote Quote  
  4. Your VHS player is putting out a PAL60 signal. That's neither PAL nor NTSC, it's half way in between (60 Hz NTSC luma, PAL format chroma). PAL TV's usually have no problem displaying it but few capture cards are designed to capture it. Get an NTSC deck and you'll be able to record your NTSC tapes with the PVR-150.
    Quote Quote  
  5. Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Your VHS player is putting out a PAL60 signal. That's neither PAL nor NTSC, it's half way in between (60 Hz NTSC luma, PAL format chroma). PAL TV's usually have no problem displaying it but few capture cards are designed to capture it. Get an NTSC deck and you'll be able to record your NTSC tapes with the PVR-150.
    Thanks for the confirmation, was expecting it...

    But then, I thought I can transmit a PAL/NTSC signal from my TV via its composite ports... Why will that not work either?

    Also, given that VCRs are hard to find in Singapore (my country), any recommendations on TV cards that can do it? Or at least, how can I see whether the card can do it?

    Thanks!
    Quote Quote  
  6. Member
    Join Date: May 2007
    Location: Romania
    Search Comp PM
    Find a card with Philips/NXP chipset. I recommend one with SAA713x, where x can be 1, 4 or 5. Works well with DScaler. These cards can decode PAL60 signal send by your vcr.
    Quote Quote  
  7. Member
    Join Date: Oct 2004
    Location: Freedonia
    Search Comp PM
    We have posts from time to time from UK gamers who want to record PAL60 game signals. Search the forums for posts about PAL60 and you should find some that list which capture cards can capture PAL60 signals.
    Quote Quote  
  8. Member The_Doman's Avatar
    Join Date: Feb 2004
    Location: Netherlands
    Search PM
    It is possible to capture PAL-60 signal with the Hauppauge PVR-150 cards.
    The support for PAL-60 is build in the drivers since version 2.0.43.24054.



    The big problem is there is NO support for it in the Hauppauge software itself.

    With some trickery and alternative software, ChrisTV, i have been able to capture PAL-60 with my Hauppauge PVR150 cards, Chris PC Support Forum: Pal Vcr With Ntsc Tapes To Pc, Capture NTSC VHS Tape to PC

    I plan to do some testing to see if other alternative capture software can also work correctly with PAL-60 and the Hauppauge PVR150.

    Still it a shame Hauppauge is not intrested at all to support this much wanted feature in their software.
    See :SHSPVR: Hauppauge WinTV2000 and PAL60 mode?
    Quote Quote  
  9. Originally Posted by darkarn View Post
    But then, I thought I can transmit a PAL/NTSC signal from my TV via its composite ports... Why will that not work either?
    The TV is putting out the exact same signal it's receiving. So if you're talking about the NTSC tape playing from the VHS player, through the TV, it's still PAL60. If the PVR-150 can't capture a true PAL source via the TV's output something isn't working right.
    Quote Quote  
  10. Originally Posted by The_Doman View Post
    It is possible to capture PAL-60 signal with the Hauppauge PVR-150 cards.
    The support for PAL-60 is build in the drivers since version 2.0.43.24054.



    The big problem is there is NO support for it in the Hauppauge software itself.
    Maybe he could build a filter graph with GraphEdit?
    Quote Quote  
  11. Thanks, that was fast! =)

    @danno78: Interesting... Never thought of that one...

    @jman98: I have seen some approaches to this issue on the net; people suggested using a very specific model of EasyCap TV card or an elaborate setup involving a Pinnacle TV card (forgot the model)...

    @The_Doman: Saw your posts about this issue on the net too! Only (minor) issues are that AdAware flagged ChrisTV (Lite) for some strange reason and I need at least ChrisTV Standard (must pay) to get this working... Let me see what I can do next...
    Quote Quote  
  12. Sorry jagabo; missed some of your posts:

    1. I see... Thought that the TV acts as a convertor rather than a transmittor...
    2. Didnt think of that... Let me fire up GraphEdit...
    Quote Quote  
  13. Ok, I have tried ChrisTV Standard already and still no go... I tried following the steps as stated here:

    1. Use the Hauppauge Tweaker (got an archived version via the Internet Wayback Machine)
    2. Switched the video standard to NTSC M
    3. Shut down Hauppauge Tweaker
    4. Went into ChrisTV
    5. Set up a Composite channel with PAL 60 selected
    6. Shut down ChrisTV and used the Hauppauge Tweaker
    7. Switched the video standard to PAL 60
    8. Shut down Hauppauge Tweaker
    9. Went into ChrisTV
    10. Used the Composite channel with PAL 60 selected
    11. Failed miserably; no video but got audio
    Quote Quote  
  14. Member The_Doman's Avatar
    Join Date: Feb 2004
    Location: Netherlands
    Search PM
    Originally Posted by darkarn View Post
    @The_Doman: Saw your posts about this issue on the net too! Only (minor) issues are that AdAware flagged ChrisTV (Lite) for some strange reason and I need at least ChrisTV Standard (must pay) to get this working... Let me see what I can do next...
    Yes, some software flags ChrisTV as 'suspect'.
    No real suprise because that Chris-TV uses some heavy "booby trap" routines for protection of the program...

    Originally Posted by darkarn View Post
    Ok, I have tried ChrisTV Standard already and still no go... I tried following the steps as stated here:
    1. Use the Hauppauge Tweaker (got an archived version via the Internet Wayback Machine)
    2. Switched the video standard to NTSC M
    3. Shut down Hauppauge Tweaker
    The Hauppauge-Tweaker can not be used for setting/switching the video (PAL-60) standard.
    You can use it to change procamp/noise reduction settings though.
    Also you can probably use use the tweak options from Chris-TV for that.
    So i leave out the Hauppauge-Tweaker for now.

    Originally Posted by darkarn View Post
    4. Went into ChrisTV
    5. Set up a Composite channel with PAL 60 selected
    6. Shut down ChrisTV and used the Hauppauge Tweaker
    7. Switched the video standard to PAL 60
    8. Shut down Hauppauge Tweaker
    9. Went into ChrisTV
    10. Used the Composite channel with PAL 60 selected
    11. Failed miserably; no video but got audio
    That is not how i made it work.
    Try this:

    First make sure you use one of the latest PVR-150 drivers which support PAL-60 (2.0.43.24054 and higher)
    Also turn off the overlay mode and enable WMR-9 in the Chris-TV Video Rendering settings.
    Otherwise you will probably only get a black screen when you switch to PAL-60 mode and try to watch/record.

    First set up a normal PAL(B?) composite channel in ChrisTV.
    Then add a second (same input) composite channel, but now select the PAL60 mode for it.

    See the example in which i also use the S-Video input:


    Now first select the normal PAL input in the channel list and then quit & restart Chris TV.
    It then should start in PAL mode, and depending on the input signal you will see a normal PAL picture or a distorted PAL-60 signal.

    My european JVC VCR displaying the system menu, outputting a normal PAL signal and Chris-TV/Hauppauge-150 is running in normal PAL(B) mode:


    To switch to PAL-60 mode select the PAL-60 input and again quit & restart Chris TV.
    After this Chris-TV should start in PAL-60 mode and again depending on the input signal you will see a distorted PAL picture or a stable PAL-60 display.

    Again my JVC PAL VCR, still outputting a PAL signal, but Chris-TV/Hauppauge-150 is switched to PAL-60 mode:


    Now my JVC PAL VCR is playing a NTSC tape and Chris-TV/Hauppauge-150 is switched to PAL-60 mode:



    Probably because the PAL-60 option is not really (officially) supported by Hauppauge there are (ofcourse) a few problems.
    As i pointed out in the above guide you can not switch directly in your application (Chris-TV) between PAL and PAL-60.
    You really need to restart the whole application to activate the PAL-60 mode or go back to normal PAL again.

    Also when you start Chris-TV 2 times after each other in PAL-60 mode things can get confused and possible the hardware recording support will disappear in Chris-TV.
    Also the Hauppauge WinTV200 can react strangely after you used the PAL-60 mode.
    In this case you need to 'reset' everything first by starting again in normal PAL mode and then switch back to PAL-60 again.

    With this procedure you should be able to use your Hauppauge-150 in PAL-60 mode.

    Possible there are other capture applications which can use this 'hidden' Pal-60 mode on the Hauppauge-150, but i had no time to test this yet

    Let me know if it works for you.
    Last edited by The_Doman; 9th Aug 2010 at 16:39.
    Quote Quote  
  15. Originally Posted by The_Doman View Post
    Yes, some software flags ChrisTV as 'suspect'.
    No real suprise because that Chris-TV uses some heavy "booby trap" routines for protection of the program...
    ChrisTV Standard is not flagged though... And I think I know what you meant by "booby trap"...

    Originally Posted by The_Doman View Post
    The Hauppauge-Tweaker can not be used for setting/switching the video (PAL-60) standard.
    You can use it to change procamp/noise reduction settings though.
    Also you can probably use use the tweak options from Chris-TV for that.
    So i leave out the Hauppauge-Tweaker for now.
    Ah, ok... By the way, what happened to its creator?

    Originally Posted by The_Doman View Post
    That is not how i made it work.
    Lol, with the Tweaker not needed for this, the procedure would be different I guess...

    Originally Posted by The_Doman View Post
    First make sure you use one of the latest PVR-150 drivers which support PAL-60 (2.0.43.24054 and higher)
    I am using a much newer one... Will using 2.0.43.24054 help?


    Originally Posted by The_Doman View Post
    Also when you start Chris-TV 2 times after each other in PAL-60 mode things can get confused and possible the hardware recording support will disappear in Chris-TV.
    Also the Hauppauge WinTV200 can react strangely after you used the PAL-60 mode.
    In this case you need to 'reset' everything first by starting again in normal PAL mode and then switch back to PAL-60 again.
    Yep, happened to me quite a few times... For example, WinTV7 will say that there is no tuner!

    Originally Posted by The_Doman View Post
    With this procedure you should be able to use your Hauppauge-150 in PAL-60 mode.

    Possible there are other capture applications which can use this 'hidden' Pal-60 mode on the Hauppauge-150, but i had no time to test this yet

    Let me know if it works for you.
    Thanks, will try tonight... As for other programs, I am thinking of BeyondTV, DScaler and SageTV...
    Quote Quote  
  16. Ok just a quick update... This method works, but my picture is still black and white...

    ChrisTV log uploaded...
    Attached Files
    Last edited by darkarn; 10th Aug 2010 at 12:26.
    Quote Quote  
  17. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2003
    Location: dFAQ.us/lordsmurf
    Search Comp PM
    I've got it solved.

    I'm writing it up right now, but it may be a few hours before I finish. Doing it between other things.
    I played Liar Liar (NTSC) with my PAL JVC.
    And I captured it with my Hauppauge PVR-150. Not a problem.

    I'll be back.
    Quote Quote  
  18. Member The_Doman's Avatar
    Join Date: Feb 2004
    Location: Netherlands
    Search PM
    Originally Posted by darkarn View Post
    Ah, ok... By the way, what happened to its creator?
    I am not sure but i think he moved to the DVB platform.
    I also use DVB recording now but still keep my trusted analogue PVR cards working, they still have many uses today.
    am using a much newer one... Will using 2.0.43.24054 help?
    Yes, I tested that specific driver on my XP Capture system and it worked with PAL-60 too.
    I prefer XP for the (analogue) capturing because with that system i know how to tweak all the driver settings like procamp/noise reduction filters.
    With other OS systems things can be differnt , i still have to test all that.

    Ok just a quick update... This method works, but my picture is still black and white...
    ChrisTV log uploaded...
    Well it does not work then ofcourse, there should be colour.
    THat is the whole problem with getting PAL-60 to work.

    What sources are you using? Real PAL and PAL-60?
    Do you get a colour picture when setting ChrisTV/Hauppauge-150 to PAL and receiving a PAL (composite) video signal?
    When setting ChrisTV/Hauppauge-150 to PAL-60 with a PAL signal you should see a flickering colour picture as shown in my examples.

    Maybe you configured a wrong connection, mixing up (composite and S-video)?
    Last edited by The_Doman; 10th Aug 2010 at 13:35.
    Quote Quote  
  19. Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    I've got it solved.

    I'm writing it up right now, but it may be a few hours before I finish. Doing it between other things.
    I played Liar Liar (NTSC) with my PAL JVC.
    And I captured it with my Hauppauge PVR-150. Not a problem.

    I'll be back.
    Thanks! Something tells me it's a GraphEdit solution....

    Originally Posted by The_Doman View Post
    I am not sure but i think he moved to the DVB platform.
    I also use DVB recording now but still keep my trusted analogue PVR cards working, they still have many uses today.
    Let me guess, DVB is something to do with digital recording, right?

    Originally Posted by The_Doman View Post
    Yes, I tested that specific driver on my XP Capture system and it worked with PAL-60 too.
    I prefer XP for the (analogue) capturing because with that system i know how to tweak all the driver settings like procamp/noise reduction filters.
    With other OS systems things can be differnt , i still have to test all that.
    Well, heard that XP machines are generally the best for video processing...

    And I tried the method on a pre-release version of that driver and the latest one...

    Originally Posted by The_Doman View Post
    Well it does not work then of course, there should be colour.
    THat is the whole problem with getting PAL-60 to work.

    What sources are you using? Real PAL and PAL-60?
    Do you get a colour picture when setting ChrisTV/Hauppauge-150 to PAL and receiving a PAL (composite) video signal?
    When setting ChrisTV/Hauppauge-150 to PAL-60 with a PAL signal you should see a flickering colour picture as shown in my examples.

    Maybe you configured a wrong connection, mixing up (composite and S-video)?
    1. I am using a Toshiba VCR that can play PAL and NTSC. It is a real PAL one though.
    2. Yep, got a colour picture when on PAL.
    3. I got a flickering colour picture on PAL 60, but that when I am playing those TV channels (the VCR is hooked to the antennae)
    4. Nope, nothing is connected to S-Video cos' I don't need it... for now...

    Thanks once again!
    Quote Quote  
  20. Member The_Doman's Avatar
    Join Date: Feb 2004
    Location: Netherlands
    Search PM
    Originally Posted by darkarn View Post
    1. I am using a Toshiba VCR that can play PAL and NTSC. It is a real PAL one though.
    2. Yep, got a colour picture when on PAL.
    3. I got a flickering colour picture on PAL 60, but that when I am playing those TV channels (the VCR is hooked to the antennae)
    This is strange then.
    Because of the flickering colour picture you get with a the PAL signal it seems the PAL-60 mode is activated correctly.
    Maybe the Toshiba is outputting some other kind of signal when playing NTSC tapes?
    I guess you don't have any other PAL-60 sources to test?

    Originally Posted by darkarn View Post
    4. Nope, nothing is connected to S-Video cos' I don't need it... for now...
    Well, the PVR-150 really needs a S-Video signal to make the most out of it really.
    The composite inputs are really badly designed on the (PAL) PVR-150 cards, much has been written about this issue.
    Even running a composite signal through a external S-Video conversion device (VCR/DVDR) can improve things dramatically with this card.
    Quote Quote  
  21. Originally Posted by The_Doman View Post
    This is strange then.
    Because of the flickering colour picture you get with a the PAL signal it seems the PAL-60 mode is activated correctly.
    Maybe the Toshiba is outputting some other kind of signal when playing NTSC tapes?
    I guess you don't have any other PAL-60 sources to test?
    Ok, this is really embarrassing but I just realised that my VCR is transmitting a NTSC 3.58 signal actually...

    I made sure my VCR is directly connected to the card, then did the same trick with a NTSC M channel this time and got it working!

    Only issue is that sometimes the video will not appear at all; you have to restart ChrisTV several time without changing the channel.

    Originally Posted by The_Doman View Post
    Well, the PVR-150 really needs a S-Video signal to make the most out of it really.
    The composite inputs are really badly designed on the (PAL) PVR-150 cards, much has been written about this issue.
    Even running a composite signal through a external S-Video conversion device (VCR/DVDR) can improve things dramatically with this card.
    Hmm... Thing is, I tried recording same video (not the VCR. it does not have S-Video ) using composite and S-Video and both recordings look the same to me... What gives?
    Quote Quote  
  22. Send the PVR-150 a high resolution test pattern. You will see the difference. See the images in this post:

    http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/313735-Capture-card-for-Laserdisc-and-VHS-Good-card...=1#post1940519

    Also watch the dot crawl artifacts at the edges of colorful objects:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot_crawl

    These problems are less of an issue with VHS sources since VHS resolution is so low.
    Quote Quote  
  23. Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Send the PVR-150 a high resolution test pattern. You will see the difference. See the images in this post:

    http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/313735-Capture-card-for-Laserdisc-and-VHS-Good-card...=1#post1940519

    Also watch the dot crawl artifacts at the edges of colorful objects:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot_crawl

    These problems are less of an issue with VHS sources since VHS resolution is so low.
    Are you talking about the ATI vs. Canopus post? The one taken by ATI looks really good!
    Quote Quote  
  24. Yes, the ATI 650/750 devices have a 3d comb filter that cleans up all that luma/chroma crosstalk (rainbow and dot crawl artifacts) -- at least on static shots.
    Last edited by jagabo; 11th Aug 2010 at 09:10.
    Quote Quote  
  25. Member The_Doman's Avatar
    Join Date: Feb 2004
    Location: Netherlands
    Search PM
    Some time ago I did also some testing with my (European PAL) DVB Cable Box and a Panasonic DMR-E55 DVD recorder.
    The pictures were captured with VirtualDUB MPEG2 from the recorded MPEG2 streams.

    Orginal (DVB) TS capture:
    http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/6338/testdvboriginaluh1.png

    DVB BOX RGB SCART output to Panasonic DMR-E55:
    http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/6043/testm750dvdrecrgbvc7.png

    DVB BOX S-VIDEO output to Panasonic DMR-E55:
    http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/7271/testm750dvdrecsvideorw9.png

    DVB BOX COMPOSITE output to Panasonic DMR-E55:
    http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/7762/testm750dvdreccompositert7.png

    DVB BOX COMPOSITE output to Panasonic DMR-E55 with activated COMB filter:
    http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/7627/testm750dvdreccompositext7.png

    DVB BOX S-Video ouput to my Hauppauge PVR-150:
    http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/1177/testpvr150svideo041361gh9.png


    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    These problems are less of an issue with VHS sources since VHS resolution is so low.
    Normally the composite signal should not be that bad, specially if you use VHS sources the differences are minimal.

    The problem with the Hauppauge 150/500 is those cards can't even handle a good composite signal properly.
    Lot of weird , unnecessary, dot crawl effects will be introduced when you use the PVR150 composite inputs.
    The build in comb filters are really not programmed/designed well it seems.
    Quote Quote  
  26. Member The_Doman's Avatar
    Join Date: Feb 2004
    Location: Netherlands
    Search PM
    Originally Posted by darkarn View Post
    Ok, this is really embarrassing but I just realised that my VCR is transmitting a NTSC 3.58 signal actually...

    I made sure my VCR is directly connected to the card, then did the same trick with a NTSC M channel this time and got it working!

    Only issue is that sometimes the video will not appear at all; you have to restart ChrisTV several time without changing the channel.
    Yes, pretty embarrassing indeed.
    But if you use NTSC M you don't need to do the trickery with ChrisTV?
    You should be able to add a NTSC-M input with the original Hauppauge WinTV-2000 software?
    Quote Quote  
  27. Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Yes, the ATI 650/750 devices have a 3d comb filter that cleans up all that luma/chroma crosstalk (rainbow and dot crawl artifacts) -- at least on static shots.
    Ah, I see...
    Quote Quote  
  28. Originally Posted by The_Doman View Post
    Yes, pretty embarrassing indeed.
    But if you use NTSC M you don't need to do the trickery with ChrisTV?
    You should be able to add a NTSC-M input with the original Hauppauge WinTV-2000 software?
    Yes I know...

    No luck with WinTV7 so far...

    EDIT: But WinTV 2000 works though...
    Last edited by darkarn; 11th Aug 2010 at 11:38.
    Quote Quote  
  29. Originally Posted by The_Doman View Post
    The problem with the Hauppauge 150/500 is those cards can't even handle a good composite signal properly.
    Lot of weird , unnecessary, dot crawl effects will be introduced when you use the PVR150 composite inputs.
    The build in comb filters are really not programmed/designed well it seems.
    Too bad my VCR does not have a S-Video out...
    Quote Quote  
  30. Member
    Join Date: Aug 2006
    Location: United States
    Search Comp PM
    If the Hauppage PVR 150 can't be made to work, this is the EZCap model that is supposed to be able to capture PAL60 in color. http://www.ezcap.tv/
    Quote Quote  



Similar Threads