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  1. Member OldMedia's Avatar
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    I have been reading many forums the last 3 hours on using and not using Time Base Correctors with the ADVC, and the abilities or lack of abilities of the ADVC 300. I do understand the difference between different types of time base correctors. However there seems to be some arguments that haven't been clarified completely, and I am under limited amount of time so I am going to the forum for some help and maybe some tips on moving this project along.

    Let me start out with a long explanation:

    Basically I received 50 tapes from a family in that vary from SLP-EP-SP mode that was recorded on a VHS camcorder in 1982-1983. I usually go straight to DVD from either my JVC S9600 or My Panny 1980, then through my BVP-4, and finally through my TBC-1000 (when I need it). Unfortunately the shooter used the best tapes money could buy back then, that is unfortunate because in order to save money they recorded movies in between the family videos on the same tape. They just want the family videos transfered, and with over 200 hours of footage it is an enormous task to fast forward through every tape to find 30 minutes of footage broken up into 5-10 min segments all over a tape with various recordings (when I was given the job they had incorrectly assumed everything was in 30 min blocks at the beginning of the tapes). I decided that I needed to capture the video to my PC so I could search the footage quicker and be able to digitize a tape - walk away, and be able to edit the small clips together.

    I purchased a ADVC 300, and Sony Vegas Platinum 10 (yes I know Vegas can be limiting, but I need its editing and DVD authoring features as well). Right now I have setup my SVHS deck to my BVP-4 then to my TBC-1000 then to my ADVC-300. I have been doing some tests, but since I need a setup that can be my middle ground for all tapes (since I have 200 hours of footage to digitize). My concern is that I am "over-processing" with so much gear for general tape transferring and not using the gear on a tape by tape basis. I would prefer to shed the TBC-1000, but on paper it sounds foolish to not use a frame sync...even though it sounds like many have no problems importing with just the ADVC-300. I feel like sometimes the BVP-4 and the TBC-1000 can have some artifacts on the picture as well.
    I understand that the ADVC-300 has a Line TBC, but some have said that they have noticed little to no dropped frames when using the ADVC-300 as a stand alone and not in conjunction with a frame synch (some say otherwise). In my short term tests I have found it perfectly fine without the TBC-1000... but in the long term I am not sure. If I had time I would probably test alot of these theories more. I am just looking for some advice or tips people may have with VHS capturing, and maybe some setups that have worked for others. I plan on doing color correction with in Sony Vegas 10.
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  2. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Shed the ADVC-3000 -- turn off its NR. That's where overprocessing will happen.
    Keep the TBC, you'll need it. The ADVC's so-called TBC does nothing. You've just been lucky so far.

    You're backwards, too.
    VCR > TBC > proc amp > digital converter
    You want the signal corrected BEFORE the proc amp gets it.

    A lot of this has been thoroughly covered here in the past year:
    http://www.digitalFAQ.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/restore-filter-improve-17.html
    Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
    FAQs: Best Blank DiscsBest TBCsBest VCRs for captureRestore VHS
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  3. Member 2Bdecided's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    Keep the TBC, you'll need it. The ADVC's so-called TBC does nothing. You've just been lucky so far.
    Doesn't that depend on how well the
    JVC S9600's TBC works? I don't know - I don't have one.

    I know my Panasonic S-VHS NV-SV121EB-S has never tripped up my ADVC110 - even when there's nothing on the tape. I suppose there must be some tape fault somewhere that could cause a problem, but I haven't seen it (and I tried, because I didn't want to come back after 3 hours and find it has only captured the first 30 seconds - that problem just never happens and I can't make it happen).

    Is it possible to completely defeat the NR in the ADVC300? I hear conflicting reports - some people say yes, others say it's still doing "something" at minimal settings. Probably doesn't matter for VHS, but that's one reason I didn't buy one.

    Cheers,
    David.
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  4. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    No.

    The JVC TBC doesn't purify the signal. The JVC TBC cleans the image.
    Read about the different types of TBCs here: What is a TBC? Time Base Correction for Videotapes

    Yeah, the ADVC300 boxes are not the best. Canopus overhypes them.
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  5. Member 2Bdecided's Avatar
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    That explanation confuses me! It talks about not fixing jitter but fixing wiggly lines in the video. The wiggly lines in the video are specifically due to temporal jitter, so what does the statement mean? Vertical jitter?

    I think maybe some of the statements don't apply to Panasonic VCRs. Certainly when I hooked mine up to a scope and broadcast monitor (with H/V delay a/k/a pulse-cross), enabling the TBC clearly caused all the horizontal and vertical sync pulses to be completely re-generated by the VCR, the timing of these pulses to be locked to a stable clock, and the video to be resampled to sit properly (i.e. stably - no wobbling, jittering, or wiggling) within the new stable syncs. The Panasonic TBC does let the bulk of the copy protection signals through in the lines just above the picture, so enabling this TBC isn't going to let you record a copy protected tape onto a DVD recorder that blocks recording of copy protected signals.

    More relevant to the present discussion, with the TBC enabled, the VCR seems to send out a consistent video signal - the syncs don't drop-out or jump, even if the content on the tape does. This is on a PAL NV-SV121EB-S.

    Cheers,
    David.
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  6. Member OldMedia's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    Shed the ADVC-3000 -- turn off its NR. That's where overprocessing will happen.
    Keep the TBC, you'll need it. The ADVC's so-called TBC does nothing. You've just been lucky so far.

    You're backwards, too.
    VCR > TBC > proc amp > digital converter
    You want the signal corrected BEFORE the proc amp gets it.

    A lot of this has been thoroughly covered here in the past year:
    http://www.digitalFAQ.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/restore-filter-improve-17.html
    For long captures it does work great, however with the TBC-1000 on, the TBC turned on in My panny 1980 (which I know is different) I am still getting a few dropped frames. Some of the videos are worse then others. When they were shooting on the tapes in 1982 apparently the camera had fade and other "fancy" features on it that I think may be causing the dropped frames but I am not sure. This last clip I digitized in 32 min I had 118 dropped frames. Any suggestions?
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  7. Member 2Bdecided's Avatar
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    What software are you using to capture? WinDV? Dropped frames either happen when your PC can't keep up, or sometimes when the DV stream stops and then starts again outside of WinDV's control. Strange the ADVC300 is doing this with two TBC in the chain.

    Cheers,
    David.
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  8. Member OldMedia's Avatar
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    I am using Sony Vegas HD Platinum 10... Do you think it might be because I am capturing to a USB 2.0 Hard Drive?
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  9. Member 2Bdecided's Avatar
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    Could be - some people report problems, though it's always worked for me.

    Try WinDV.

    Try capturing to an internal drive; if possible, not the system one - i.e. typically not C:, and not another drive that's just a partition on the same physical disc as C: drive.

    Might not make any difference, but WinDV is free to try and very solid. I have Vegas HD but wouldn't dream of capturing with it.

    Cheers,
    David.
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  10. Member OldMedia's Avatar
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    It was my Hard Drive, I didn't have a quick enough connection. I went to B&H today and picked up a 2TB G-Raid, hooked it up through esata and I went from 200 dropped frames to 0. It looks like my problem is solved. Thanks again.
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