Monitor - "can't play 24p video" . . . Is this true?

[bweath]

I'm just about finished puting together a computer for HD video editing and am now looking for a monitor.
I saw a 23.6" Asus Designo MS246H on Newegg for $170 thought it sounded pretty good. Then I read on the CNET review page that it "can't play 24p video". Is it possible for a monitor to not be able to play 24p video? I couldn't find anything on the Asus website about it. So I looked at some other monitors and found nothing related to 24p video. Was that comment just from a user review that didn't know what he was talking about or is it possible that a monitor wouldn't play 24p? And what would I look for or how would I know? Any information on this would be very helpful.

[jagabo]

What that means is it can't accept 24p input. It will accept 60p input. 24p material will go through a 2:3 frame repeat to get to 60 Hz. If you're lucky it might accept 72p so you can get 3:3 repeats for smoother motion.

[bweath]

So when looking for a monitor what do I need to look for?
I want to be able to record in 24p, and edit it on my computer w/ Vegas.
I would also like to be able to plug my camcorder directly into the monitor via HDMI to watch the 24p I've recorded.
If a monitor has an HDMI input, does that mean it will play 24p?

Or should I not be recording in 24p?
Should I record in 30p or 60i? Is there an editing effect in Vegas that will give the recordings the '24p cinema' feel?
Sorry I'm so ignorant, I'm totally new to this.
I would much rather glean from the pro's than waste time/money w/ trial and error.

[edDV]

So when looking for a monitor what do I need to look for?
I want to be able to record in 24p, and edit it on my computer w/ Vegas.

I would also like to be able to plug my camcorder directly into the monitor via HDMI to watch the 24p I've recorded.
If a monitor has an HDMI input, does that mean it will play 24p?

It doesn't work that way. What is your camcorder?

No camcorder outputs straight 24 fps. They output telecined 24F, 24PA or some other field repeat pattern at 59.94 fields per second. Vegas or a monitor will see this as 1920x1080i/29.97. Most computer monitors can't handle interlace in any form let alone inverse telecine to progressive. You need a TV monitor or LCD-TV to view the "24P" HDMI stream. With inverse telecine processing, the monitor will convert to 23.976p, then frame repeat 2:3 to 59.94 fps for display. Without inverse telecine processing, the monitor displays the HDMI stream as 59.94 fields per second including the repeated fields.

Exception is "24P" 1280x720p which is frame repeated 2:3 to 59.94 over HDMI. This 59.94p stream can be viewed on a typical HDMI/DVI-D computer monitor but expect difficulty setting a good black level or have it display 16:9 in correct aspect ratio. Again, an LCD-TV is what you want for a monitor.

Vegas has similar issues. It will interpret these streams as 1080i/29.97 or 720p/59.94 unless externally converted (inverse telecined or frame decimated) to 23.976p. Vegas will deal with 24PA. See the App Note in the Vegas white paper section.

[edDV]

Or should I not be recording in 24p?

Should I record in 30p or 60i? Is there an editing effect in Vegas that will give the recordings the '24p cinema' feel?
Sorry I'm so ignorant, I'm totally new to this.

I would much rather glean from the pro's than waste time/money w/ trial and error.

24p has specific shooting rules I've summarized in other threads. It is a non-compromise dicipline.
(see p-2 of this thread https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/294510-List-of-really-true-native-24P-1920x1080-AVC...24p+discipline )

30p has half the motion samples of 29.97i so will appear jerky if viewed on a large display. 30p is used for internet streaming or for effects processing. 30p has similar issues to 24p for HDMI to a computer monitor. The "30p" (29.97p actually) is interlaced to fields to appear as 1080i/29.97. This will be rejected by a typical computer monitor.

Normal for home camcorder use is 1440x1080i or 1920x1080i at 29.97 frames per second (59.94 fields per second). This gives smoother motion samples at 59.94 fields per second rate . As said above, 1080i cannot be viewed on a computer monitor over a direct HDMI connection. You need an LCD-TV.

[edDV]

If a monitor has an HDMI input, does that mean it will play 24p?

The HDMI input on most computer monitors is usually limited to 60Hz (59.94) progressive. It generally has HDCP (required to play a Blu-Ray) but won't handle 480i/1080i or other frame rates. The assumption is that the computer display card will convert 480i/1080i and 720p/1080p 24p inputs to the monitors native resolution* at 59.94 over HDMI or DVI-D.

The computer monitor itself lacks frame rate processing. It is designed to be used with a display card. An LCD-TV has input frame rate and resolution scaler processing plus a tuner and audio processing.


* LCD computer monitors usually have a crude scaler to rescale inputs to native resolution. You can see how bad these are by viewing text at other than native resolution. These don't compare to the video scalers found in LCD-TV sets which are optimized for video resolutions.

[bweath]

My camcorder is a Canon Vixia HF200. (Has HDMI out and records 1920 X 1080)
Record settings are 60i, 30p or 24p. Which should I use to make movies? ( I don't mean home videos, I mean something more like short films.)

Software = Sony Vegas Movie Studio 9 Platinum Pro Pack.

Video card = EVGA Geforce 220, which has a HDMI out.

would this work? http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11523644&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&eCat=BC|7...US&Sp=C&topnav=
or
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11480444&whse=BC&Ne=5000135+4000000&e...2341&N=4001374 4294899204&Mo=6&No=1&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&Ns=P_Pric e|1||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-US&Sp=C&topnav=

And I would assume this won't? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824254044

[bweath]

I just looked at the specs on the Canon website and it says,
"Frame Rate: 60i, 24p Progressive (records at 60i), 30p Progressive (records at 60i)"

So does this change things?
Do I need to use an HDTV as a monitor or can I use an HD monitor?

[jagabo]

The camcorder, regardless of what mode you use to record, will put out a standard 1080i signal at the HDMI port. Any HDTV will display that, one way or another. 120+ Hz HDTV's may detect the underlying 24p frames and go into "smooth mode" (ie, 5:5 repeats). Computer monitors with HDMI inputs, having less video processing, will probably just bob the interlaced input, if they accept it at all.

After importing into the computer, the computer will output in whatever way you have the graphics card set up. Typically, this will be 1920x1080p60. If the video is interlaced it has to be deinterlaced by the computer before transmission (or else you'll see comb artifacts). If the monitor supports 1080p24 input you can set your graphics card to that. Then, if the monitor actually displays at 24 Hz (or multiple thereof, instead of 3:2 frame repeats to make 60 Hz) it can display the video without 3:2 frame repeat judder. 30i and 60i material will get jerky with 24p output.

If the computer's graphics card can output 1080i the situation becomes much like displaying video directly from the camera. Although, the software might still deinterlace or otherwise modify the frames.

[edDV]

I just looked at the specs on the Canon website and it says,
"Frame Rate: 60i, 24p Progressive (records at 60i), 30p Progressive (records at 60i)"

So does this change things?
Do I need to use an HDTV as a monitor or can I use an HD monitor?

60i is marketing speak for 29.97i (59.94 fields per second). Whatever you call it, it will not be accepted by a typical computer monitor which wants progressive at 60 or 59.94 frame rate. This I explained above.

I'm not sure Vegas Platinum supports "24P" except as a 29.97i stream. I don't have it. I do have Vegas Pro 9e.

As for monitoring, I suggest a dual monitor configuration with a computer monitor and an LCD TV. Most LCD-TV sets will double as a computer monitor when fed VGA or HDMI/DVI-D at 60 Hz from the display card.

The LCD-TV has additional inputs that can be used to watch and/or monitor direct camcorder feeds, media player and Blu-Ray/DVD player outputs. Most have tuners so you can also use them to watch analog/ATSC/clearQAM TV.

You can purchase small 19-24" LCD-TV sets with 1920x1080 native resolution in the $175-299 range. If you want them to double as your second computer monitor, I highly suggest a 1920x1080 native resolution for viewing desktop text. 1366x768 or lower doesn't cut it for watching at 18" distance.

[edDV]

As for camcorder formats, I suggest you master 1080i before trying "30p" or "24p". 1080i/29.97 ("60i") gives the smoothest motion and is directly compatible with Vegas Platinum 9. You may still find your CPU hardware inadequate for direct editing the AVCHD format. If that is the case you will need to use a digital intermediate such as Cineform Neoscene which converts 15 GOP AVCHD to all frames for easier editing. An added bonus, Neoscene will extract 23.976p from 29.97i on import giving you a true 23.976p file for import to Vegas.