Subtitle Sync Issues

[TheAlmighty]

Hello VideoHelp Forums,

I have used DVDFab HD Decrypter to copy a 'Main Movie' to my hard drive. I have then proceeded to use VobSub to make the .idx subtitle file from the .IFO. With reference to what I am doing, is the anime I have copied I like to have a subtitle pop under the Japanese writing in certain parts of the movie in which you would need subs turned know what it says (I am Aussie). Now the issue I have are subs that are out-of-sync. Not that this is important as I am aware of how to re-sync and all that, and I will not have any problems what-so-ever fixing this. I have here an example of what I mean;

.idx file - Shortened for convenience

# VobSub index file, v7 (do not modify this line!)
#
# To repair desyncronization, you can insert gaps this way:
# (it usually happens after vob id changes)
#
# delay: [sign]hh:mms:ms
#
# Where:
# [sign]: +, - (optional)
# hh: hours (0 <= hh)
# mm/ss: minutes/seconds (0 <= mm/ss <= 59)
# ms: milliseconds (0 <= ms <= 999)
#
# Note: You can't position a sub before the previous with a negative value.
#
# You can also modify timestamps or delete a few subs you don't like.
# Just make sure they stay in increasing order.


# Settings

# Original frame size
size: 720x576

# Origin, relative to the upper-left corner, can be overloaded by aligment
org: 0, 0

# Image scaling (hor,ver), origin is at the upper-left corner or at the alignment coord (x, y)
scale: 100%, 100%

# Alpha blending
alpha: 100%

# Smoothing for very blocky images (use OLD for no filtering)
smooth: OFF

# In millisecs
fadein/out: 50, 50

# Force subtitle placement relative to (org.x, org.y)
align: OFF at LEFT TOP

# For correcting non-progressive desync. (in millisecs or hh:mms:ms)
# Note: Not effective in DirectVobSub, use "delay: ... " instead.
time offset: 0

# ON: displays only forced subtitles, OFF: shows everything
forced subs: OFF

# The original palette of the DVD
palette: 000000, 1f1f1f, ffffff, e63f07, 7e7e7e, bebebe, 14bef3, ea12eb, faff1a, 000070, 067506, 731f03, 095f78, 750975, 7c950b, ffffff

# Custom colors (transp idxs and the four colors)
custom colors: OFF, tridx: 0000, colors: 000000, 000000, 000000, 000000

# Language index in use
langidx: 0

# English
id: en, index: 0
# Decomment next line to activate alternative name in DirectVobSub / Windows Media Player 6.x
# alt: English
# Vob/Cell ID: 1, 1 (PTS: 0)
timestamp: 00:00:20:680, filepos: 000000000
timestamp: 00:00:24:240, filepos: 000001000
timestamp: 00:00:28:160, filepos: 000002000
timestamp: 00:00:31:800, filepos: 000003800
timestamp: 00:00:35:080, filepos: 000004800
timestamp: 00:00:38:720, filepos: 000005800
timestamp: 00:00:43:080, filepos: 000006800
timestamp: 00:00:46:680, filepos: 000008000
timestamp: 00:00:51:400, filepos: 000009000
timestamp: 00:00:58:440, filepos: 00000b000
timestamp: 00:01:02:080, filepos: 00000c800
timestamp: 00:01:06:160, filepos: 00000d800
timestamp: 00:01:13:280, filepos: 00000f800
timestamp: 00:01:20:960, filepos: 000011800
# Vob/Cell ID: 1, 2 (PTS: 178320)
timestamp: 00:03:39:160, filepos: 000012800
timestamp: 00:03:43:480, filepos: 000013800
timestamp: 00:03:46:440, filepos: 000014800
timestamp: 00:03:58:200, filepos: 000015800
timestamp: 00:04:00:280, filepos: 000016800
timestamp: 00:04:02:160, filepos: 000017800
timestamp: 00:04:03:720, filepos: 000018800
timestamp: 00:04:06:480, filepos: 00001a000
timestamp: 00:04:09:080, filepos: 00001b000

The timestamps which are in BOLD are the times in which are PERFECTLY in-sync. The second lot and all times afterwards are completely out-of-sync. Is this an error within the .IFO file or VobSub that gives the incorrect timestamps, and funnily enough (and obviously) the subtitles are in-sync when watching the main movie as a DVD on a PC. But yet the info within the .idx file is different. Can someone please provide an explaination as to why or how or if I am doing something wrong or anything that may be helpful. Thanks in advanced.

TheAlmighty

[manono]

It probably wasn't decrypted correctly. One thing you might try is to run the VOBs through FixVTS after having decrypted them using DVDFab HD Decrypter. That's what you used, right, and not whatever it was that you called it?

Or, if it's out of synch by the same amount after that boldfaced part, set a delay and resave the VobSubs.

[TheAlmighty]

Yes I used DVDFab HD Decrypter. In all honesty I don't think there was an issue at all with the DVD rip. FixVTS only fixes the .VOB files directly and not the actual .IFO file in which the VOB reads the information from for the subtitle timestamps I'm sure. Like stated before, I have no issues re-syncing as I just edit the file and add the delay function. I don't use all the subs so really I'm just being picky. Really I wanted to try and understand how the timestamps could become so out of sync when the DVD itself reads the same information right? I mean VobSub is just reading the subtitle information provided inside the .IFO file and basically putting it in a .txt file. Just one of those things that keep me curious to know.

ThAlmighty

[manono]

OK, if you say so. However, DVDFab HD Decrypter doesn't always remove the unreferenced cells. When playing the DVD there are instructions to skip over them so everything remains in synch. If you extract the subs with those unreferenced cells still in place, the instructions to skip over them are lost, and their length gets added into the subs' timings, throwing them off. Do whatever you like; it's no skin off my back. There's no guarantee running it through FixVTS will fix it, but your reasoning for not doing so is completely wrong since the subtitle timing information is in the VOBs and not the IFO.

[TheAlmighty]

Video, audio, subtitle and menu contents multiplexed together are whats stored in .VOB files. The .IFO is what stores the 'information' about chapters, subtitles (timestamps) and audio tracks. I will let you know that I have already use FixVTS. I have learnt something new about the unreferenced cells, which I will read up about, and I thank you for the information you've provided so far. I am not an ignorant person, in which you gave a slight impression hence 'Do whatever you like; it's no skin off my back'. I am open to anything. Its not a huge issue like i've made mention before.

[manono]

I just told you that the VOBs contain the timestamps. It's a simple matter to extract subtitles (and their timings) from the VOBs alone. You don't need the IFOs at all. If what you say were true, you'd need the IFOs to get the subs and you don't.

I am not an ignorant person

Of course not; after all, you're TheAlmighty. Look through the contents of the IFOs sometime using IFOEdit or whatever you like and find the subtitle timing information. If you're correct it shouldn't be hard at all since there are ... what? ... 1000-1500 subs in a movie.

[TheAlmighty]

I tried alot of different things last night, and the final conclusion to the out-of-sync subtitles was due to DVDFab HD Decrypter and how it encoded the DVD. Unsure why, perhaps it has something to do with the unreferenced cells you made mention of which I didn't find much information on. I gave Nero Recode a go and created the .idx file from the .IFO file, viewed it, and all timestamps were back in-sync. Not a huge issue as it's easy enough to fix with SubReSync.

The only issue I am faced with now is the subtitle colouring. I know exactly how to change the colours and all that, no issues there. I use MKVMerge to combine my video, audio and subtitles together. By default the colour is yellow (I want it yellow) as indicated by the .idx (subtitle) file in the first post. The issue is when everything gets MUXED together, the subtitles go from being yellow to white. Can't figure out why, and it's annyoing. I use VLC and when manually loading the subs, they are yellow. Just the MUXING issue now .