Capture & convert VHS to play on HDTV

[JQK18]

What's the best way to preserve quality when you want to play, on an HDTV, video that originally came from VHS?

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One possibility that comes to mind:

1. Capture VHS to computer in MPEG-2 format in DVD resolution, 720x480
2. Make a disc (DVD or BD?) from that captured video
3. Play the disc on a player that upconverts 720x480 SD to HD

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I realize that even on an HDTV, SD quality will never be upconverted to as good as HD, no matter how you do the SD -> HD conversion. But I don't want to lose quality from the conversion either.

[jman98]

The BEST way to preserve quality is to watch your VHS captures in 4:3 on your HDTV and not to do that awful practice of stretching everything to 16:9. If you stretch them to 16:9, I definitely don't want to see you back here bitching about how much it sucks when I told you not to do that. My rule - if the video source is 4:3, then you watch it in 4:3 on your HDTV. If you can't accept the black bars at the side, there's really no hope for you.

[JQK18]

I don't have a problem capturing in 4:3.

[JQK18]

What capture resolution do you recommend? I've heard 352x240, 352x480, 640x480, 704x480, 720x480, etc.

[lordsmurf]

352x480 or 720x480
Depends on source.
Read this: http://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/video/capture-understand-sources.htm

[JQK18]

The source is a regular VHS tape. I'm just wondering if I should capture at the normal resolution (352x480) or at some higher resolution, so that it will play on a higher-resolution HDTV.

[JQK18]

The source is a regular VHS tape. I'm just wondering if I should capture at the normal resolution (352x480) or at some higher resolution, so that it will play on a higher-resolution HDTV.

Or I could just capture at to a computer at 352x480 (which is recommended for VHS, see lordsmurf's link above), but capture into a lossless format, and worry later about playing that VHS-quality video on an HDTV.

(Which by the way is still a little down the road, I'm still using mostly SD TV's now.)

[edDV]

The source is a regular VHS tape. I'm just wondering if I should capture at the normal resolution (352x480) or at some higher resolution, so that it will play on a higher-resolution HDTV.

352x480 is undersampled for best quality VHS and is only used to reduce file size.

DVD doesn't support anything between 352 and 704.

So for quality, 704x480 fits the frame. 720x480 results in 8 pixel left and right black bars.

Like this:
This is off air SD not VHS.

[JQK18]

The source is a regular VHS tape. I'm just wondering if I should capture at the normal resolution (352x480) or at some higher resolution, so that it will play on a higher-resolution HDTV.

There are HDTV's and/or disc players that will upconvert DVD resolution (like 720x480) into HD resolution, correct? And if so, do they upconvert some resolutions better than others?

Bottom line is, I'd like to know what VHS capture resolution is best for HD.

(By the way, I don't mind black bars on the side. In fact that's better, if the alternative is distorting the picture by stretching it to fit the screen.)

[edDV]

The source is a regular VHS tape. I'm just wondering if I should capture at the normal resolution (352x480) or at some higher resolution, so that it will play on a higher-resolution HDTV.

There are HDTV's and/or disc players that will upconvert DVD resolution (like 720x480) into HD resolution, correct? And if so, do they upconvert some resolutions better than others?

Bottom line is, I'd like to know what VHS capture resolution is best for HD.

(By the way, I don't mind black bars on the side. In fact that's better, if the alternative is distorting the picture by stretching it to fit the screen.)

All HDTV sets will accept a 704x480 (ATSC standard) or 720x480 (DVD standard) digital stream and upconvert to the display screen resolution.

An upconverting DVD player will upconvert to 1280x720p or 1920x1080i. These will need a second rescale in the TV to display resolution.

You need to test to see which scaler method works better for your HDTV.

General rule is the higher end your HDTV (e.g. Samsung level 6 up or Sony XBR) the more likely the TV will do better from a 720x480i input. For budget HDTV sets, the upscaling DVD player may do better.

[edDV]

Either way the 4:3 480i will show as "pillarbox" on a 16:9 HDTV

[JQK18]

All HDTV sets will accept a 704x480 (ATSC standard) or 720x480 (DVD standard) digital stream and upconvert to the display screen resolution.

An upconverting DVD player will upconvert to 1280x720p or 1920x1080i. These will need a second rescale in the TV to display resolution.

You need to test to see which scaler method works better for your HDTV.

General rule is the higher end your HDTV (e.g. Samsung level 6 up or Sony XBR) the more likely the TV will do better from a 720x480i input. For budget HDTV sets, the upscaling DVD player may do better.

I'd like to capture at the resolution that is likely to work well for as many HDTV sets (and for that matter SD sets) as possible.

Is 720x480 or 704x480 better for this?

[JQK18]

Either way the 4:3 480i will show as "pillarbox" on a 16:9 HDTV

That looks good. Much better than stretching out the picture sideways to try and fit the screen.

[edDV]

The 720x vs 704 issue mostly relates to your capture device. If it does both, the pixel aspect ratio is the same so the extra 16 pixels show as black side strips as shown above. In other words, the picture pixels are the same either way.

If you directly capture SD ATSC off air it will be 704x480.

[JQK18]

The 720x vs 704 issue mostly relates to your capture device. If it does both, the pixel aspect ratio is the same so the extra 16 pixels show as black side strips as shown above.

If you directly capture SD ATSC off air it will be 704x480.

So what I hear you saying is, either way it looks the same on an HDTV screen.

How about on an SD screen? (As I said, I'll be using this more often than HD in the near future.)

[edDV]

The 720x vs 704 issue mostly relates to your capture device. If it does both, the pixel aspect ratio is the same so the extra 16 pixels show as black side strips as shown above.

If you directly capture SD ATSC off air it will be 704x480.

So what I hear you saying is, either way it looks the same on an HDTV screen.

How about on an SD screen? (As I said, I'll be using this more often than HD in the near future.)

Same on SD.

I've skipped over the issue of overscan but the jist is you won't see the picture edges anyway*. You will see the picture edges if you view on a computer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overscan

So it doesn't make any difference for picture quality for an NTSC capture.



* Even for pillarbox on an HDTV, the 4:3 picture is overscanned horizontally to keep you from seeing the picture edges. They do this to keep people from complaining.

[JQK18]

The 720x vs 704 issue mostly relates to your capture device. If it does both, the pixel aspect ratio is the same so the extra 16 pixels show as black side strips as shown above.

If you directly capture SD ATSC off air it will be 704x480.

So what I hear you saying is, either way it looks the same on an HDTV screen.

How about on an SD screen? (As I said, I'll be using this more often than HD in the near future.)

Same on SD.

I've skipped over the issue of overscan but the jist is you won't see the picture edges anyway*. You will see the picture edges if you view on a computer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overscan

So it doesn't make any difference for picture quality for an NTSC capture.



* Even for pillarbox on an HDTV, the 4:3 picture is overscanned horizontally to keep you from seeing the picture edges. They do this to keep people from complaining.

So the only difference is the file size, correct?

[edDV]

There is only a 2% pixel count difference but since those extra pixels are black, it won't change the MPeg2 file size even 2%.

Back to the 720/704 vs 352 issue, this doubles file size so I would only use 720/704 for important or high quality VHS captures (e.g. camcorder or high quality cable captures). I'd go 352x480 for routine stuff where quality isn't important.

But for anything you expect to watch on the big screen, I'd opt for 720/704 x480

[JQK18]

OK then.

Thanks so much for all your help!