VHS tape recorded in Japan at different frequency than North American VCRs?

[sincostan45]

To the point: Does the analog signal for television in Japan operate at a higher frequency than in North America? If so, does this signal also exist on recorded-off-the-air VHS tapes? And how can I get the tape to play correctly in an American VCR?

The story:

So I studied abroad in Japan for a few months and when I was over there, I recorded a VHS tape full of random stuff off of random channels the cable television the "international" dorm was getting. (They had VCRs on all of the televisions in the dorm lounges.) If I remember right, the medium delivering the channels was a coaxial cable.

I had heard that Japanese and American VHS tapes and VCRs were fully compatible with each other, so at the time, I was thinking that I could play the tape when I got back home.

Well... I've had the tape for a little while, and I just recently tried to capture it, so I could get the more interesting clips from the tape. (VCR -> DVD recorder (signal upscaled to 480p and then sent along component cables) -> Hauppauge HD PVR 1212 -> Samsung 40" LCD TV)

...And nothing showed up. I've pretty much been able to capture anything I want with this setup, but this is the first time I haven't been able to capture something. I omitted everything in between and hooked the VCR straight to the television, and FINALLY I got a picture and sound.

I tried it with two VCRs and on both I got tons of white fuzz with a very faint outline of the image while the audio was very high-pitched. (Though I could still tell it was Japanese audio.) The tracking did nothing but make it slightly better.

I did some research and basically found... no information on this issue. I did find one site that mentioned in passing that Japan uses a higher frequency for television broadcasts than North America. I also found this Wikipedia article that shows that the video carrier frequencies are higher in Japan than in North America for each respective channel. I suppose this would make sense, given the effects of trying to play my tape here in America. But I didn't think that the carrier frequency would be transferred to the VHS tape when recording.

I suppose that maybe manufactured VHS tapes are compatible between the two countries because there is no carrier frequency needed? But then taped-off-the-air VHS tapes aren't because of the carrier frequency?? Makes sense to me, but I really don't know...

I figured some type of adapter would be in existence, if this is a common issue, but a Google search yields nothing. (Or maybe not too many people try to play off-the-air VHS tapes recorded in Japan in America either...)

Anyway, if somebody can give me advice on what to do (that is, IF anything can be done), or maybe give me some more information on this issue so I can figure out what is going on, I would REALLY appreciate it. Thanks!

[showtaper]

NTSC-J

Only Japan's variant "NTSC-J" is slightly different: in Japan, black level and blanking level of the signal are identical (at 0 IRE), as they are in PAL, while in American NTSC, black level is slightly higher (7.5 IRE) than blanking level. Since the difference is quite small, a slight turn of the brightness knob is all that is required to correctly show the "other" variant of NTSC on any set as it is supposed to be; most watchers might not even notice the difference in the first place.

[edDV]

Further, a Japanese tape will look a bit "black crushed" like a typical DV NTSC camcorder NTSC out until you boost luma (brightness) 7.5%. The chroma is identical.

There is no obvious reason why your DVD recorder flinched. A VCR to VCR dub would duplicate the 0 IRE.

Note also that Japanese DVD levels are the same digital 16-235 as USA. The difference is in the player where digital 16 maps to analog 0 IRE in Japan where American (also Korea and Taiwan) players map 16 to analog 7.5 IRE.

[sincostan45]

showtaper and edDV, thanks for you replies! (And that is interesting that the levels are the same between Japanese and American DVDs.)

I was aware of the difference in black levels between NTSC and NTSC-J, but that doesn't make sense why I would get white fuzz and why the audio would be so much higher whenever I try to play back the NTSC-J-recorded tape.

In response to the posts, and to show what happens when I try to play the tape, I took my digital camera in video mode, made a clip about this and uploaded it to YouTube:



I repeated some stuff I already said before, but a person can at least see what happens on my TV and can hear the audio.

I have to admit, I'm wanting an explanation of this behavior just as badly as I'm wanting it fixed. The curiosity is killing me.

[lordsmurf]

I couldn't hear any audio aside from your talking.
It can still be the VCR. That it plays one tape fine is not evidence to the contrary.

Fast audio and fuzz may be LP mode forced playback to SP mode.

[2Bdecided]

Either there's nothing properly recorded on the tape (i.e. the record deck was broken), or the tape has become broken / damaged.

It's got nothing to do with it being recorded in Japan.

(Unless they were very special VCRs which converted to and recorded in PAL for overseas use - and I doubt that very very much! They're not going to put one of those in every room - they cost a lot of money.)


Cheers,
David,

[sincostan45]

lordsmurf, you really couldn't hear the high-pitched sounds between 0:20 and 0:24?

At any rate, how can it STILL be the VCR? All I was basically trying to point out with playing a tape that actually works is that factors such as the head being clean, the tape moving at the correct speed, etc. are all in working order. I'm not sure how you can say that it still can be the VCR.

And I have to say that the tape being in LP mode but playing in SP mode makes PERFECT sense! As I said before, it plays the same way in both VCRs, but neither VCR has an option for LP recording. If playing in SP mode with an LP-recorded tape is what the problem is, I'm not sure why neither VCR would automatically detect and play at the correct rate. So, I'm gonna try and borrow an older VCR from my friend's parents that records in LP and see if I can't get the tape to properly play in it.

2Bdecided, it's very possible that the VCR I used to record with could have been on the fritz. However, I do remember rewinding and playing the tape back and it playing perfectly fine after I had recorded some television. Or... are there magnetic fields strong enough at airports around where the baggage goes that would screw up VHS tapes?

And yeah, I highly doubt those were VCRs that recorded in PAL, lol. However... to be honest, they were VCR/DVD combos, and the DVD player in them was region free, as North American and Japanese DVDs could be played. Though, I don't remember anybody from Europe or anywhere else bringing any DVDs with them. Still though, I doubt that it would convert the video to PAL when recording from a coaxial source.

[victoriabears]

I would take it to a store that does multi system transfers and see if it willplay in one of their machines, my suspicion is that it is PAL

[lordsmurf]

Not all VCRs play all speeds.
Japan is an NTSC island surrounded by a PAL world.

[2Bdecided]

neither VCR has an option for LP recording.

There's your problem then - nothing complicated - just use a VCR that supports LP!

Cheers,
David.