Playing it in WMP it comes up looking 4:3. How do you override the source AR?Originally Posted by jagabo
Saved as AVI using Mainconcept, with the 16:9 box checked. That changes the AR to where it plays 16:9 but also adds the artifacts.Originally Posted by brassplyer
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Originally Posted by poisondeathray
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Yes, jagabo already stated that. You fix the aspect ratio in your editor or encoder for DVD
What is your final format goal? Surely it's not DV? Are you putting it back on tape? -
Originally Posted by poisondeathray
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For DVD you set the AR in the encoder
For web you have to deinterlace, and resize to 16:9 and using 1:1 square pixels
Re-loading DV, you would interpret the footage in your editor and re-encode to 16:9 DV
Eitherway, you shouldn't encode to DV using vdub. DV is lossy and you incur extra quality loss by exporting DV then encoding again to MPEG2 for DVD , (or some other format for web). You should use a lossless format ..(e.g. huffyuv, lagarith) or uncompressed for your intermediate stages whether importing into another editor or cleaning up the footage, color correction etc -
Post a short clip of my DV AVI file after you converted it to 16:9. You may just have a playback problem.
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Originally Posted by brassplyer
You should use a lossless format ..(e.g. huffyuv, lagarith) or uncompressed for your intermediate stages whether importing into another editor or cleaning up the footage, color correction etc
I still think you have a display issue, not a conversion/encoding issue. WMP will automatically deinterlace DV AVI files as it plays them. It will also adjust the frame to match the display aspect ratio of the source. These two features can lead to jagged, buzzing edges, etc. -
Originally Posted by jagabo
I'll make a test DVD and see how it looks. -
brassplyer- what do you mean by "waviness" ? Do you mean the interlaced combing? Do you see the macroblocks and pixellation along the edges like your 2nd video in the huffyuv playback?
jagabo - how can it be a display issue if the original 16:9 DV looks ok? I'm referring to the macroblocks and pixellation in the 2nd video he posted (test_deshake_problem.avi). I think it's his DV encoder
Here is your file, bob-deinterlaced, denoised, deshaken, reinterlaced and re-encoded back to 16:9 DV (interpreted in Premiere). See if this plays "correctly". Normally you wouldn't encode back to DV unless you were putting it back onto tape for some reason
http://www.mediafire.com/?z5jzkzmkbwm
Here is your file , bob-deinterlaced, denoised, and encoded using x264. Since it was bob-deinterlaced it is 60p; normally you would only upload 30p material to video sites like vimeo,youtube, so you would only single rate deinterlace (30p). I included the aspect ratio flag, so it's NOT 1:1 square pixels, it's like the DV which streches anamorphic for display upon playback. So you would resize it to 16:9 AR and 1:1 pixel aspect ratio, so something like 704x400 , or 840x480 (I forget which one youtube recommends) , because those sites don't support anamorphic display and they will get the AR wrong
http://www.mediafire.com/?ujdeadez5ez -
Originally Posted by poisondeathray
Originally Posted by poisondeathray -
Originally Posted by jagabo
By waviness I mean narrow horizontal waves. Hard to describe a somewhat subtle artifact more precisely than that. As I say I'm trying to create a DVD now out of test segments to see how it looks on a TV.
Btw, another reason to go back to DV is file size - clearly Huffyuv and to an even greater extent uncompressed take up far more space than DV, and further Pinnacle Studio which I'm using to create DVD's chokes on Huffyuv.
I'm hoping the solution is something besides the DV codec since - A) I paid for it B) it does 16:9 which I don't see on the freebies.
Just took a look at poison's vid file - thanks for taking the time. On WMP it displays the waviness I mentioned on the deshaken files saved to Huffyuv and uncompr. Will have to see what they look like on DVD. -
If the original DV file is 16:9, shouldn't the file converted to uncompr or Huff retain a 16:9 AR?
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Originally Posted by brassplyer
Are you saying there is "waviness" in both the files I uploaded? -
To AviSynth and VirtualDub pixels are dimensionless points. As Poisondeathray points out, you set the PAR or DAR in the output codec. Or in the editor you use later. Most editors have the ability to override what the editor thinks of the PAR or DAR of the source.
And what to you mean by waviness? Poisondeathray's file play fine here -- especially the h.264 encoded one. -
Originally Posted by poisondeathray
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Originally Posted by brassplyer
That is the reason I put the deinterlaced x264 file there; for comparison, and to narrow down if it is a decoder issue for you.
Whether or not you get "waviness" on a DVD will depend on how well your DVD player deinterlaces
Did the DV file play @ 16:9 DAR for you in WMP?
Can you try another player like VLC? you can activate deinterlacing in the options -
Originally Posted by poisondeathray
What part of the treatment did you do within Vdub and what part was done in Adobe? -
Originally Posted by brassplyer
Or is it because you installed cedocida, and everything decodes OK now using that? But the errors are encoded into that "test_deshake_problem.avi" file, so the DVD should have those errors as well - or did you re-do the test with cedocida?
The file I uploaded looks different because I filtered it with denoisers; and probably not from the deinterlacing or reinterlacing. You shot it low light, so there is a lot of general noise, and chroma noise. Everything was done in avisynth , except for the deshaking , which was done in vdub.
The only reason I used "Adobe" is to export as DV-AVI in 16:9 for demonstration purposes to see if it's your DEcoder that is the problem. (i.e to see if your decoder "sees" those blocky edge artifacts). It's actually lower quality than if I would have just exported with huffyuv after deshaking and encoded straight to MPEG2 for DVD. There is absolutely no reason to export DV-AVI if you're going to DVD - it's lossy. -
Originally Posted by poisondeathray
The file I uploaded looks different because I filtered it with denoisers; and probably not from the deinterlacing or reinterlacing. You shot it low light, so there is a lot of general noise, and chroma noise. Everything was done in avisynth , except for the deshaking , which was done in vdub.
The only reason I used "Adobe" is to export as DV-AVI in 16:9 for demonstration purposes to see if it's your DEcoder that is the problem. (i.e to see if your decoder "sees" those blocky edge artifacts). It's actually lower quality than if I would have just exported with huffyuv after deshaking and encoded straight to MPEG2 for DVD. There is absolutely no reason to export DV-AVI if you're going to DVD - it's lossy.
There's a very good reason for me to go back to DV, as previously mentioned - file size. I've got around a TB, maybe more in DV files much of which I need to treat and when I've got it all done decide how I want to organize them on DVD.
It's not HD - the file you did is well within "good enough" parameters. I just need to be able to replicate that and I'll be happy. My main editing app is now Vegas Pro 8, which I gather beats the pants off Pinnacle - when I saw "VST plugins" it was clear Vegas is in a different universe tan PS9. I'll only use Pinnacle for creating DVD's - it does have pretty decent menu creation options.
Which did you do first, the deshaking or the other treatment in avisynth? Can you outline specifically what you did? -
Originally Posted by brassplyer
There's a very good reason for me to go back to DV, as previously mentioned - file size. I've got around a TB, maybe more in DV files much of which I need to treat and when I've got it all done decide how I want to organize them on DVD.
It's not HD - the file you did is well within "good enough" parameters. I just need to be able to replicate that and I'll be happy. My main editing app is now Vegas Pro 8, which I gather beats the pants off Pinnacle - when I saw "VST plugins" it was clear Vegas is in a different universe tan PS9. I'll only use Pinnacle for creating DVD's - it does have pretty decent menu creation options.
Most filters work better on progressive content, but deshaker, neat video, MCTD and FFT3Dfilter in avisynth have an interlaced mode (none of the mentioned filters are as effective as when used on progresive) .
You do have sharp ringing (haloing) around the orange areas (and other objects) , perhaps your camera was set too high for artifical sharpening or detail. I did use a dehaloing script to help with that, and that probably helped with the "orange fringing" too.
So I imported this .avs script into vdub to use deshaker
Code:AVISource("test.avi") ConvertToYV12(interlaced=true) TempGaussMC_Beta1(sharp=0) Dehalo_Alpha(darkstr=0.9,brightstr=0.9) MCTemporalDenoise(settings="high")
Then I used deshaker , exported a lossless lagarith 60p file, and re-interlaced it
Code:AVISource("deshaken.avi") AssumeBFF() SeparateFields() SelectEvery(4,0,3) Weave()
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Originally Posted by poisondeathray
Ok. Fair enough, I guess that's valid I guess I should have qualified my statement "if quality is top priority"
So I imported this .avs script into vdub to use deshaker
Code:AVISource("test.avi") ConvertToYV12(interlaced=true) TempGaussMC_Beta1(sharp=0) Dehalo_Alpha(darkstr=0.9,brightstr=0.9) MCTemporalDenoise(settings="high")
Then I used deshaker , exported a lossless lagarith 60p file, and re-interlaced it
Code:AVISource("deshaken.avi") AssumeBFF() SeparateFields() SelectEvery(4,0,3) Weave()
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Yes, you can use avisynth within vdub. Avisynth is a frameserver
http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/Main_Page
http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/First_script
You will have difficulties using DV-AVI as an intermediate with the workflow I used, because I bob-deinterlaced to a 60p intermediate ; DV-AVI doesn't support that. So if you have limited HDD space, you might want to explore alternate methods or filters that work with interlaced content
Also it's sometimes better to use lossless intermediates for stages, because for some 2pass encodes and filters (like deshaker) , instead of using the heavy filters twice, you only have to do it once. It is much faster. I actually used that 1st script to encode a lossless lagarith intermediate first (with the denoise filters), then deshaker export to lagarith , then reinterlaced that deshaken .avi with the 2nd .avs script. You could frameserve out of vdub directly to your DVD encoder without using intermediates at all, there are guides on how to do this if you search -
TempGausMC_beta1() is a very slow filter, a few frames per second. If you have a lot of footage you will want to run TempGauss and save as an intermediate file, then do the two deshaker passes in VirtualDub. Or you can deshake in AviSynth with DePan() or maybe Stab().
I noticed I left out the deshaking line in the script I posted a few days ago. It should have looked more like this:
Code:import("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\TempGaussMC_beta1.avs") AVISource("test.avi") ConvertToYV12(interlaced=true) TempGaussMC_beta1() # #deshake goes here # SeparateFields() SelectEvery(4,0,3) Weave()
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Get yourself a Hague MMC Stabilizer (steadicam) device for $120 and you'll have more stable shots to begin with. You'll definitely reduce the times you'll need to use Deshaker.
http://www.vimeo.com/8800412
http://vimeo.com/804381"Quality is cool, but don't forget... Content is King!" -
Originally Posted by poisondeathray
ConvertToYV12(interlaced=true)
TempGaussMC_Beta1(sharp=0)
Dehalo_Alpha(darkstr=0.9,brightstr=0.9)
MCTemporalDenoise(settings="high")
As of this point the file is deinterlaced? Where was it deinterlaced?
Then I used deshaker , exported a lossless lagarith 60p file, and re-interlaced it
And this below is to reinterlace?
Code:AVISource("deshaken.avi") AssumeBFF() SeparateFields() SelectEvery(4,0,3) Weave()
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Originally Posted by brassplyer
Originally Posted by brassplyer
Originally Posted by brassplyer
Originally Posted by brassplyer -
I read some on YV12, can't say it's crystal clear to me - if it's being converting to YV12, what was it before and why are you converting to it?
These are 3 specific filters that need to be found/downloaded?
As of this point the file is deinterlaced? Where was it deinterlaced?
60P meaning 60fps because of how it was deinterlaced?And this below is to reinterlace?
This is just an example of one way of doing it. There are many many other methods, filters, settings you could choose. Please don't think this is the only way you can do it. There are many more simpler workflows, and some even more convoluted
EDIT: jagabo beat me to the punch -
Originally Posted by poisondeathray
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Originally Posted by jagabo
Would you agree RGB=>YV12 is definitely worse than YV12=>RGB when you "pixel peep"
There are other methods of lossless colorspace conversions, like sheervideo. I'm not sure how they do it though, they have a bunch of equations on their website that I don't understand.
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