smooth slow motion

[nitrobaorder]

so i just got a cannon hfs100 HD video camera mostly to film snowboarding.
im going to be doing a lot of video editing with it and everything is working out well except i dont know how to get real smooth slow motion.

i can slow things down but its always kind of choppy if i slow it down enough.
im using final cut pro and adobe after effects. any suggestions?

[poisondeathray]

the "best" option for smooth slow motion is to shoot higher fps. So you can't get ideal shots with that camera

e.g. if you had 60p footage on a 30p timeline, it would be 1/2 speed

with after effects you can use pixel motion (generate new frames from interpolating) , but the side effect is artifacts, worse in some types of footage than others, and it's very slow to render. avisynth has some options that are similar in quality, but many times faster to render

The other options are a) duplicating frames, or b) blending frames, both which are usually worse and more choppy, but it also depends on the "look" you are going for.

[nitrobaorder]

the "best" option for smooth slow motion is to shoot higher fps. So you can't get ideal shots with that camera

e.g. if you had 60p footage on a 30p timeline, it would be 1/2 speed

with after effects you can use pixel motion (generate new frames from interpolating) , but the side effect is artifacts, worse in some types of footage than others, and it's very slow to render. avisynth has some options that are similar in quality, but many times faster to render

The other options are a) duplicating frames, or b) blending frames, both which are usually worse and more choppy, but it also depends on the "look" you are going for.

this isnt a very professional camera so it doesnt have as many settings as some others. but i have tried messing around with the "shutter priority" i is that something that effects frame rate. it makes the picture darker and takes away the motion blur the higher i set it but its still choppy.
i have done some stuff in after effects too but i dont know if im doing the pixel motion thing your talking about

[jagabo]

i have tried messing around with the "shutter priority" i is that something that effects frame rate.

No. That effects how long the shutter is open for each frame (shorter exposure = less motion blur) but the frame rate remains the same.

[poisondeathray]

i have done some stuff in after effects too but i dont know if im doing the pixel motion thing your talking about

There is a basic training tutorial at videocopilot on time remapping, and pixel motion is discussed
http://www.videocopilot.net/basic/#06

[nitrobaorder]

i have tried messing around with the "shutter priority" i is that something that effects frame rate.

No. That effects how long the shutter is open for each frame (shorter exposure = less motion blur) but the frame rate remains the same.

oo alright that makes sense.
well then from the looks of it the only things i can change it to is 24p, 30p, and 60i i think 60i is the fastest frame rate i have but it just gets converted to 30p when i import anyway

[poisondeathray]

60i is the fastest frame rate i have but it just gets converted to 30p when i import anyway

You could use avisynth, for example, and bob-deinterlace to 60p footage. If you put that segment on a 30p timeline, it will be 1/2 speed

[jagabo]

Note that marketers have started using the term 60i but the traditional term is 30i -- 30 interlaced frames per second. The interlaced frames consist of two fields (half pictures, one in all the even scanlines, one in all the odd scanlines) that are intended to be viewed sequentially for 1/60 of a second each.

As was suggested earlier, you can bob the fields into progressive frames (60p) and slow them down to 30p or 24p, even 20p (special handling is required for the last one on DVD). That will give you 1/2, 2/5, or 1/3 speed. A smart bobber will retain most of the vertical resolution and the picture won't bounce up and down.

[guns1inger]

If you have after Effects then you also have access to plugins such as ReTimer (is this in the latest AE ?) and others that are designed to do this type of thing. A short google will find you all the best ones.

They tend not to be cheap though : http://www.revisionfx.com/products/twixtor/pricing/#ae_compatible_4

[jagabo]

Here's a sample of a 30i clip converted to 60p with AviSynth's simple Bob() filter, and then then same clip slowed down to 20p and each frame repeated three times (because AVI only supports one frame rate in a file). So for the first three seconds the clip plays at normal speed, then it plays again at 1/3 speed:

60and20.avi

[guns1inger]

Why is the metronome blocking Diana Rigg ? Are you mad ?

[nitrobaorder]

Here's a sample of a 30i clip converted to 60p with AviSynth's simple Bob() filter, and then then same clip slowed down to 20p and each frame repeated three times (because AVI only supports one frame rate in a file). So for the first three seconds the clip plays at normal speed, then it plays again at 1/3 speed:

60and20.avi

is there such thing as avisynth for mac because that what im using.
i watched that tutorial too on after effects and that is what i was doing before so far that has given me the best results and if there is a way to get rid of that side effect from using pixel motion it would be perfect

[poisondeathray]

There is no native avisynth for mac, but you might be able to use it through some virtualization software or bootcamp (not sure)

Unfortunately all methods of interpolation will give you some artifacts. (I've used twixtor that gunslinger linked and several other methods as well too - they ALL give artifacts) . And the slower the motion you need (2x, 3x, 4x etc...), the more frames need to be interpolated, so you expose more frames with artifact to the audience

But at least, pixel motion or frame interpolation is clearly "smoother" than straight duplication and much clearer than blended frames. If you are very picky you can use several methods of interpolation and pick the best (most artifact free) frames from each.

This is why I mentioned earlier the "best" method is to shoot a higher fps (and if you need super slow motion, you need special cameras)

[jagabo]

I have been able to run AviSynth and VirtualDub from Ubuntu using Wine. Also via VirtualBox.

[Soopafresh]

Slow motion on conventional camcorders isn't going to look perfect. There just isn't enough information captured at 30/60i

Compare to slow mo of stuff shot at 120fps

http://vimeo.com/groups/redusers/videos/1340684

[jagabo]

How about 1 million fps?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfDoQwIAaXg

[Soopafresh]

Yep, that's more like it.

[nitrobaorder]

that skate video on vimeo is exactly the effect i would want. i know i wont be able o get that with this camera but its pretty cool.
im just curious how much would a camera like that cost

[jagabo]

The Red One is $17,500 before adding lenses etc.

http://www.red.com/store

The Sanyo Xacti FH1 is only about $500 and has 1920x1080 at 60 fps (not 30i), 448x336 at 240 fps, and 192x108at 600fps.

[guns1inger]

My phone does 120 fps at 640 x 360

[live4fun]

My phone does 120 fps at 640 x 360

Hi guns1inger,
could you tell me which phone? just curious

[guns1inger]

Back then I had an LG Viewty. It recorded video using Divx and did a reasonable job.

[live4fun]

Back then I had an LG Viewty. It recorded video using Divx and did a reasonable job.

Thank you.That's great.