Take a .VOB or .M2V file + inverse telecine it so output is .VOB or .M2V?

[DrGori]

Is it possible to take a .VOB or .M2V file, and inverse telecine it so that the output is still a .VOB or .M2V and so there isn't any compression? I just want to know if this is possible, because I have some DVDs where the video is interlaced, but the original footage is shot at 23.976 fps, and all of my previous attempts at inverse telecining them ended looking horrible because I converted the DVD files to .MOV's, inverse telecined those and then converted the new inverse telecined files to dvd. Really, really bad idea. I just want to know if there is better solution to this problem, where I don't do any recompressing or file conversion. Thank you.

[guns1inger]

It is possible to inverse telecine an mpeg program or elementary video stream without converting it to an intermediate format, if IVTC is required. You will still have to re-encode it back to mpeg-2 at the end of the process, and apply pulldown flags to allow it to be authored. Even progressive DVDs must be flagged to allow for interlaced playback.

Start by searching for posts on IVTC. There are a lot of posts on this topic. Most will recommend avisynth as the tool of choice, although if the needs are simple, virtualdub might suffice.

First and foremost though, you need to be able to confirm that a) it is telecined, and b) what the pattern is.

To help narrow your search, I would look for posts by a user called manono.

[redwudz]

DrGori, in the future please use a more descriptive subject title in your posts to allow others to search for similar topics. I will change yours this time. From our rules:

Try to choose a subject that describes your topic.
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Moderator redwudz

[manono]

If you IVTC it and want to stick it back into VOB, you'll have to reencode. I have no idea why you created an intermediate MOV file, though, when you can go directly back to MPEG-2.

The best way to IVTC (the only way, as far as I'm concerned) is by using one of the IVTC filters in AviSynth. This assumes a hard telecined source (the telecine encoded into the video). You might provide a small 10 second sample of the kind of thing you're talking about.

[DrGori]

If you IVTC it and want to stick it back into VOB, you'll have to reencode. I have no idea why you created an intermediate MOV file, though, when you can go directly back to MPEG-2.

That's the only way I've been able to IVTC stuff, by making an intermediate MOV file, and I use JES Deinterlacer to carry this out. If somebody could show me a simple way to IVTC a VOB and stick it back to VOB without using scripts which are just too complicated for me, then that would be a big help.

[poisondeathray]

You're on a MAC ? You might get some more suggestions if a mod moves the thread to the MAC section

Many of the suggestions will not work on a MAC (or they might with bootcamp, not sure)

[DrGori]

You're on a MAC ? You might get some more suggestions if a mod moves the thread to the MAC section

Many of the suggestions will not work on a MAC (or they might with bootcamp, not sure)

I use Parallels, and every Windows program has worked perfectly on there.

[poisondeathray]

But why do you want to do this? It doesn't make any sense?

When you play the DVD, it should look normal on a NTSC system

[DrGori]

When you play the DVD, it should look normal on a NTSC system

...Except there is interlacing in it, and I don't want that.

[poisondeathray]

When you play the DVD, it should look normal on a NTSC system

...Except there is interlacing in it, and I don't want that.

Is it telecined or interlaced? There is a difference.

You shouldn't see any combing on either when played in a DVD player

IF you do see combing or artifacts, something is either wrong with the DVD, the way it was authored, or your hardware setup

Maybe you can post a sample, as manono suggested

[DrGori]

Here's my sample:
http://rapidshare.com/files/290013593/sample.m2v.html

[poisondeathray]

Here's my sample:
http://rapidshare.com/files/290013593/sample.m2v.html

This is normal 3-2 pulldown. You shouldn't see any artifacts on a DVD player, but you should on a progressive display like a PC. This is normal behaviour

You wouldn't remove the pulldown (or IVTC), unless you were encoding to a progressive format for PC or web (like youtube/vimeo)

Are you saying you see combing artifacts when you play the DVD in a standalone DVD player?

[DrGori]

Are you saying you see combing artifacts when you play the DVD in a standalone DVD player?

I don't see it on a normal DVD player, but I still want to have a progressive DVD so it will look good no matter what I play it on.

[poisondeathray]

But it is a progressive DVD. The content is progressive.

I think needs to be telecined (i.e. pulldown applied) to play on a normal NTSC DVD player (as DVD-Video), because that is the signal NTSC spec equipment accpets.

It should play normally even on PC's if you use DVD player software (ie. it should IVTC on the fly)

[DrGori]

But it is a progressive DVD. The content is progressive.

I think needs to be telecined (i.e. pulldown applied) to play on a normal NTSC DVD player (as DVD-Video), because that is the signal it accepts.

Ok, THAT is what I need to do then. Is there an easy way to add a pulldown?

[poisondeathray]

Ok, THAT is what I need to do then. Is there an easy way to add a pulldown?

No. It already has telecine (or pulldown applied). This is the process from converting 23.976 content to 29.97 so it's suitable for NTSC systems

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine

You want to inverse telecine (or remove pulldown), but that is done by the DVD player or DVD software player. That's why it "looks" normal

[manono]

It should play normally even on PC's if you use DVD player software (ie. it should IVTC on the fly)

Nope, most software DVD players (PowerDVD, for example) are flag readers and will just deinterlace it (resulting in dupe frames or blended frames, depending on the deinterlacer used). Perhaps if DrGori experimented with the deinterlacing options in his software player he might find something acceptable to him. There's no problem playing it on a standalone to an interlaced CRT. There's no problem playing it on a standalone to a progressive display if the player and/or TV set are cadence readers (can IVTC on the fly). Many standalones are also flag readers and will deinterlace it, though.

I'd reencode it as well, but unfortunately that DVD is of such poor quality that even making it progressive won't fix all that's wrong with it (very low bitrate, so there's artifacting all over the place). It would look better had it been encoded progressively to begin with.

[poisondeathray]

Thanks for the clarification, manono

So you are saying that most DVD software players (on the PC) are actually deinterlacing, not IVTCing ?

But even if you removed pulldown or IVTCed, how could you make a real DVD (as in DVD-video) without re-encoding ? Is that even possible at 23.976?

[manono]

So you are saying that most DVD software players (on the PC) are actually deinterlacing, not IVTCing ?

Yep, that's what I'm saying. I edited while you were posting. I understand those players from NVidea and ATI can IVTC, but I've never seen them in action.

[milatchi]

Is it telecined or interlaced? There is a difference.

What is the difference?

[manono]

Telecined video has duplicate fields added to progressive 23.976 video to convert it to interlaced 29.97fps. When going frame-by-frame through the video, of every 5 frame sequence 3 are progressive and 2 are interlaced. With pure interlaced video on the other hand, every frame is interlaced. The former can be IVTC'd back to progressive 23.976. The latter should be left alone.