Background: Hi. I have been trying to make my own compilation of the musical Chess by using various CD's I have ripping them and putting songs from other productions on CD to my cdr version. As most of you know musicals, unlike vocals or regular mainstream music have connecting tracks. Now if you rip them and put them back on, you get a slight unwanted pause.
My process: What I have been doing is ripping the tracks that make a "sequence." A sequence is a series of tracks that are all connecting with each other with no pauses. Musicals sometimes have 5 connecting tracks---for example in Les Miz how "Do you Hear the People sing?" flows into "In My Life." Now once I have a sequence, I open up Audacity. I import the first song of the sequnce and then cut and paste until they make one file in audacity. The I save this sequence as a mp3 big file(export). Now, here is what is related to my question. Then I have been opening NCH Wavepad (trial) it splits them according to where you want to make the splits. Once I have made all the splits, I test them by burning them in the track order of the sequence using NCH's Burner program-- The result is excellent and it flows with NO clicks or pauses and tracks all connect with each other like a professional CD.
My Issue: NCH's Wavepad and Burner when purchased can be from $40-100 depending on your discount. I have tried some freeware solutions. I have TRIED to cut the big mp3 using Megamp2split, and when it splits the files and I burn them on a CD, it makes the CLICK sound everywhere a track ends in the sequence. It does not flow or lead-in naturally. The other thing I have used is mp3DirectCut. When I cut the big mp3 into files using this program, you get an annoying stop silence or "you know it is the end of the track cause it has a little bit of silence." I of course tried to cut in one at a time using Audacity as well, but that just ends up in slight silences when doing the tracking when you burn in on a CDr.
My question: Besides NCH's wavepad and Burner(trial), is there any freeware or cheapware that you know of with proven personal results that can split a big mp3 sequence and have the ending result when you burn the track sequence onto a cdr not make any pauses or clicks between the tracks in a certain sequence? So far the only program I know that can smoothly do this is NCH's wavepad and Burner. Cheapware is defined as $20 or less.
If you still do not know what a sequence is, here is an example:
Track 1--ends normal,
Track 2-ends normal
Track 3--does not end but leads into track 4
Track 4--does not end, but leads into track 5
Track 5, does not end, but leads into track 6
Track 6--ends normal
Track 7--ends normal
track 8 --end normal
Track 9 ends normal
Track 10--does not end but leads into track 11
Track 11--ends normal.
So here you have 2 sequences sequence 1 is: track 3,4,5, and 6. And sequence 2 is track 10 and 11.
If you do not know what I mean by lead-into. I do NOT mean the CDR burning term. I mean how music is still playing or notes are still being played as it goes to the next track. And I do not consider claps and yells from concerts to be lead-ins. Only vocals or music are lead-ins,
Other: You might ask yourself "why are you making a big mp3 file, why not just rip the cd?" Well, the only way not to have clicks or pauses in a sequence is to re-track it by ripping the sequence source and join them using Audacity and save it a big mp3(export). Whereas, tack 9, in my example, you can just rip it as normal since it does not lead into another track unless you want to append something. I actually DID do that in my project but you do not need to know that to answer my question.
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Please read the whole post again. I do not want any silence when it comes to an mp3 sequence.
I am looking for cheapware or freeware that when you split a big mp3, that when you burn the individual tracks, there will not be any pauses or clicks when you burn it. Audacity's cuts results in slight silences when you split tracks and burn them.
In musical theater soundtracks, sometimes some tracks will lead into other tracks. The only way to bypass this is to rip the sequence using a ripper, putting in audacity, import and join it all tracks from the sequence to make an mp3, and then split the mp3 using NCH's Wavepad and then burn it with NCH burner.
NCH wavepad is the only program that I know that can make the splits from the big mp3 file AND when you burn it, it will not result in any silences or clicks between tracks.
I already mentioned, the process failed with Audacity when it comes to songs (tracks) that go into other tracks. You hear a click.
So I say my question again: Besides NCH wavepad is their another program that can split tracks from an mp3 and when burned it will not result in some missing music sections, silence, or clicks?
If you STILL are lost;
rip a cd track. any track it does not matter. Now, since you do not have a connecting track in this example, just split this one track in half. Now it is 2 tracks. Burn the resulting 2 tracks.. Now when you burn it, can you notice that there is a click or pause where you made the the cut? NCH wavepad can bypass this. If you open up NCH Wavepad . take your same track you ripped, now split it with NCH wavepad and burn it. You will probably notice NO CLICKS and no silence--it leads into the other track smoothly. Get what I mean now? If you use Audacity you will get the clicks. Now, Nch wavepad is $40-$100, do you know of a cheaper program that results with the same result as NCH wavepad?
Why not try a DJ software that will allow you to mix the tracks? This process will take real time recording. There are several that allow you to save your mix. Then you could burn it to CDR. Seems like less work than splicing/dicing.It Started In Texas
I do not need to do a whole lot of mixing. There are only like maybe 3 tracks that need multi-track mixing. I even HAVE Steinberg Cubasis Creative Edition, but that program does let you split files---you can only mix files into one file or project.
I think splicing is the easiest.... I just need to find some good splicing software or pay for the NCH program. If anyone has not used any NCH programs, download a trial.
I guess. I have to keep on trying out different splicing software until I find a good free one. If I get EXTRA money within the next 30 days, I just might have to pay for NCH.
Well, half my question is answered by myself.
Nero 8 OEM which came with my Samsung burner has an option for "no pauses between tracks" and "normalize audio." So at least part of the question is answered. So Nero has moved up a notch in my book. I have always liked burantonce because it is not popular, and my Nero has usually remained untouch. But Nero has been bumped up. Ok Nero, you can have a satisfaction of being used on my computer.
So now that the burner part has been established. Now I got to find something that will splice good with NO cracks or slight delays. I know NOW that Nero can make sure that the CD has no pauses, so now it is all up to the splitter.
A few more test need to be run.
My question: Besides NCH's wavepad and Burner(trial), is there any freeware or cheapware that you know of with proven personal results that can split a big mp3 sequence and have the ending result when you burn the track sequence onto a cdr not make any pauses or clicks between the tracks in a certain sequence? So far the only program I know that can smoothly do this is NCH's wavepad and Burner.
test it with Daemon Tools,
burn it with ImgBurn.
Originally Posted by El Heggunte
Even though I know NOW that Nero can do what I need. You have answered my question correctly regarding freeeware. I will try it with a cue sheet and everything once I buy some more CD-Rs. I like easy challenges. If it does work NERO can go back to the shelf.
Thanks for your reply.
After you edit out the pauses, save it as WAV. If you convert back to MP3 2 bad things happen. First you are losing quality to another lossy conversion. Second you may be putting the gaps back in as MP3 pads the last block with silence (if needed) so the last block ends on a proper length boundary.
Anyway, I am not sure when I will get more CDR's. Hopefully soon I will buy some.
Anyway. I have decided to go the ALL CUE way. Yes. The reason why I have MP3 files and wav's is because the huge mp3 file came from Audacity. And some other smaller files were ripped straight to wave since they have an ending and/or do not lead into other songs.
Anyway, the name of my track I called "Der Keine Franz Montain Duet whod ever think.mp3" So I made a cue file out of it like this
FILE "Der Keine Franz Montain Duet whod ever think.mp3" MP3
TRACK 01 AUDIO
TITLE "Der Kleine Franz"
INDEX 01 00:00:00
TRACK 02 AUDIO
TITLE "MOUNTAIN DUET"
INDEX 01 01:37:00
TRACK 03 AUDIO
TITLE "WHO'D EVER THINK IT"
INDEX 01 06:31:50
And then I went medieval on its butt........no just kidding. I used the Medieval Cue Splitter. It cut the tracks into three segments as I wanted. Then just for the heck of it added one more song from another file. Thus the cue file now looks like:
File "Prologue.wav" WAVE
TRACK 01 AUDIO
INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "(01)  Der Kleine Franz.mp3" MP3
TRACK 02 AUDIO
TITLE "Der Kleine Franz"
INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "(02)  MOUNTAIN DUET.mp3" MP3
TRACK 03 AUDIO
TITLE "MOUNTAIN DUET"
INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "(03)  WHO'D EVER THINK IT.mp3" MP3
TRACK 04 AUDIO
TITLE "WHO'D EVER THINK IT"
INDEX 01 00:00:00
As you can see the bottom 3 tracks came from the split mp3 and the top one is independent. Now. I noticed an mu3 or an m3u file was created when I cut the bigger mp3 into 3 tracks. Now, if I keep on adding to the cue file here or use the Medieval Cue Splitter to cut another sequence of 3, is that going to confuse the burner because in the end there might be like 4 m3u files?
I still have a feeling that all of that is "out the window" if you choose the wrong burning method...IE Track At Once vs. Disc At Once. I could be wrong since I know squat about CUE, BIN and stuff like that.
I remember making a car copy of a James Taylor Live CD that kept ending up with breaks between the songs when the original was seamless.....until I turned on Disc At Once. Problem solved.
I found an extra cdr lying around for a test. And it burned the cue file with IMGBURN and it did not work. It had very short stops in them. I looked all over for the options for "disc-at-once" like you suggested. I could not find that option in this program. IMGBurn is the only program that can read this cue file I made. Nero says error in line 1. Burnatonce says that is missing the bin file--I guess it used to video images. IMGBURN burned it but with the stops. I wonder if i uncheck "finalize disc" if that might make any difference?
I don't understand why you are making MP3 at all.
Isn't the final product an audio CD? If it's an MP3 CDR, then okay, but if not, MP3 is a poor choice. Every time you open and edit and resave, there is a quality loss.
If you're working in Audacity, it can save everything as a "project" file, which is a lossless proprietary format (thus large, maybe a GB or so).
Also in Audacity you can label regions and export each region as a separate file.
Do that, save a sequence of WAVE files. Many programs can take these and make an audio CD. ImgBurn; even Nero.
Burnatonce is an simple app that you can set the delay between tracks, to zero if you wish; see its Help under "Audio CD Mastering".
Originally Posted by AlanHK
yeah. Next time i will do a wave. Unfortunately, when I burned it in CDRToolsFRONTEND, which I could only find an option for "disk-at-once" it said warning and had to do padding adding sectors--I am guessing because of the Mp3 file. I could not find "disc-at-once" in IMGBURN. So Audacity calls them "regions." All this time I was looking for a splice tool. All I know is that when I made a big mp3 and then cut it into tacks using the whole copy, cut, new project, paste--export method, it would make a click sound. Maybe I will try making regions to see if I still get that click or unwanted pause. Like I was saying earlier NCH's wavepad was the only program that that cut up a huge file into seperate tracks (with no clicks or unwanted pauses). But that is $50 I do not want to spend--plus even though it has worked great for me--people think it has spyware or crippleware in it. I then disovered my own NERO 8 OEM under essentials can take out the unwanted pauses or can normalize the track--even edit if you select Properties. But I was intrigued with creating a CUE file, thus eliminating the need for a cut editor---just wordpad. I have not got the whole Cue thing to go well yet. So I will re-master the stuff in wav files next time, and maybe CDRToolsFrontEnc won't add padding next time. I will see. If it does not work, I am out of writing cue sheets and just using Nero 8 and optionally finding a better slicer LIKE NCH Wavepad.
Why am I doing this? I really do not like that question. That sounds negative, but I will answer it anyway because a lot of people it seems to me are skimming and not reading through the whole article. In my first post I told everyone that I am making my own Chess compilation, taking different tracks from Broadway, the complete danish version, the recent 2008 in concert version, and the concept album. On one of the tracks from the danish version titled Mountain Duet I ripped that one, but it ends with a drumroll. I ripped the concert one as well. Both of the tracks lead into the song "who'd Ever Think It," a short 1:00 minute song. So I ripped both tracks. I used the Mountain Duet from the danish cast recording, and put it in Audacity and made a second (multitrack). I tried to match them--I did not bad. So now at the end of the danish Mountain Duet it blends into the 2008 concert version with adam pascal singing "Who'd Ever think it." thus making it easier to cut. I then silenced the unneeded Mountain Duet from the 2008 concert(cut--but if you use cut in audacity it drags it to the beginning--so I just silence it). So now I have a nice crossfade. I exported the result as an MP3. Well, next time I will export it as a WAV. There was also a song called Der Kleine Franz which was also in that same mp3 which was ripped and added because Der Kleine Franz leads into The Mountain Duet. Of course, I did that before exporting the whole MP3. But like I said, next time I will save the sequence as a wav file. And just for more experiment I ripped the overture from the 2008 concert version and ripped it straight to a wav since it has no lead in and can go straight to a cue file or author program. I still have to buy the original Broadway Cast recording in which I will rip "How Many Woman" and I will add it to my "arguement sequence which consists of-Florence and Molokov (whole danish version), One line of "Want to loose your Only Friend?"/up to I will not take it anymore, " How many Woman?(from the broadway cast cd) and then back to 1956--Budapest is Rising ("I'm only teasing soviets') and then Nobody's Side. They all lead into each other. This is the next sequence I will work with after I am done with this "Der Kleine Franze/Mountain Duet/Who'd Ever Think it?" sequence. Yes of course they all are on commercial CD's Yes. But if I want to make my own version from different recordings (thus the word--COMPILATION) then I will have to do some ripping, a little remxing, and little bit of fading and cutting. Songs like "The Arbiter" have an end to them, so all I have to do is a rip and add it to a cue or author program. Tracks that are part of sequences and lead into other things, plus me adding more tracks to them, consists of more mixing using Audacity. Yeah, but next time I will export my sequence as a wav. I think you are right in that area.
Ok. I should not have to explain any more WHY questions. Just solutions. Thank you. If you read the the subject of the article and the first posting, you will know why.
Originally Posted by Krelmaneck
Sorry I wasted my time trying to help you.
Post deleted by user.
Originally Posted by AlanHK
Dear member, I apologize for the mix-up and my confusion. It is just so many people are not following directions and I have to repeat myself so many times, thus making it really unprofessional. Sorry for that lecture there. Anyhow, yes, I did take your advice and I think that making wave files would be a much better way of going about things. I am therefore going to re-rip everything and do some re-mixing of tracks. When I tried to burn the cue file with a mixture of mp3 and wav file--it had to add padding sectors--thus the unwanted pauses. It was like 3 am in the morning when I wrote that. so I was lke dead tired.
Originally Posted by AlanHK
Burnatonce is my favorite burner but for some reason, when I have taken a long file, whether or it is a wav or mp3, and chop it up with a program, burnatonce still put a small pause where you could tell i made the cuts like a 1 sec thing, so all this time I think it is my choice of SPLCER. Because when I was using NCH Wavepad to cut the files, the splicer would makes excellent splicing results but when with burnatonce it would still have a small bit of silence where I made the "cuts." When I used the NCH burner, there were no issues. When I used the megamp3split, which is freeware, and then burn with the NCH burner it made BIG CLICKS where the file was split. When I cut with audacity, it made 1 second silences. Nero 8, which I have, is good at making straight through audio files with no clicks.
But now going back to burnatonce---this has been the program that I wanted to use, but I have not seen the option fto set for "no pauses." I see the option for "2 second pauses," But even when I have the "2 second pause" UNCHECKED, and it says 00:00:00 for the pause, it still sometimes makes a 1 second silence where the files were cut into smaller bits. Why not use NCH? I do not have an extra $50 lying around. Yes, Nero did a great job. It passed the test. I would love if Buranatonce can pass the test, but it has failed. So I think it is all about the SPLICER you choose to use. Now when I was just using a CUE file, I think my problem was that I was not dealing with waves BUT waves AND mp3's--which could mess up the whole deal.
I will tell everyone later if I can get burnatonce or IMGBURN or CDRTOOLS to pass my test. Now, going back to the subject line, anyone know the BEST SPLICER? I will retest it with audacity regions as the above poster suggested. But as for just splicing for cd-r purposes (not full-fledged big kahuna audio editors), anyone know the best deal? I notice a program by MILO software called CDwave which is $15. If it does the trick, I might decide to give him $15.
Well, all I can say is that the results have come in for the program CDwave. Whoever wrote that program is an excellent programmer and it exactly did what I wanted it to do--to splice wav files with no pauses or clicks.
There still is some stuff I am still working on though.
I took the advice of redoing everything in wave format.
Rseults for CDwave
Burnatonce--directly from the wav files created by cdwave
Results: Passed--No pauses and no errors
IMGBUN--from cue file
Results: still results in pauses
Errors: No errors
CDRFETOOLS--From cue file
Results: Passed--NO PAUSES
Errors: did padding but did not cause any clicks or pauses
I did select Disc-At-Once as an option here
I am SURPRISED that burnatonce passed this test because when using other files from other splicers, it failed. But when it burned the files from CDwave--there were NO pauses and NO clicks.
I am still kind of new to IMGBURN and creating cue sheets. The funny thing with IMGBURN was that when the file product was burned, there still WAS slight pauses. It must be some sort of setting I am missing. Anyone know.
CDRFETOOLS(CD-R front end tools). Now, this was a SURPRISE. Even though there WAS PADDING in SOME SECTORS, the CD that was created DID NOT have any pauses or clicks. So that was kind of interesting. Even though it added the padding with sectors, the CD DID NOT click or PAUSE at the end of each connecting sequence.
Conlusion: CDwave is WORTH $15 to give to the author because it creates excellent results when splicing.
Still ONE QUESTION: I wonder why IMGburn was the only program that created the pauses. Anyone know what the option is so this will not happen since the other programs passsed the test?
I was doing some experimenting too....again. ImgBurn was hit or miss on pauses between songs.
I ripped my James Taylor Live disc(no pauses) and burned to an image with ImgBurn...pauses...bummer.
I then used EAC's option to remove all pauses from the CUE file....reburned with ImgBurn and.....no pauses.
I then burned a test disc(CD-RW) with Prassi Ones from the CUE that I did not "fix" with EAC's option....no pauses. Prassi Ones has always been my preferred CD burning app....that and it's easier CDText capabilities make it my absolute favorite.
Originally Posted by hech54
I totally forgot about Exact Audio Copy. LOL. I'm going to re-download that now. PS--is Prassi freeware or commercial? I went to their website and it said that they were working on a new set of products. That was it.
Prassi Ones is payware...but not expensive.
I actually prefer CDex to EAC. EAC is too "snobby" for me. It worries about stuff that 95% of the people don't give a hoot about.
ImgBurn only takes the exact output from your directshow filter and then adds zeroes if it needs to round up to a multiple of the sector size (2252 bytes per sector). Remember that you can't burn anything less than a full sector!
i.e. If directshow/acm returns 2350 bytes of data having decoded a (tiny!) mp3, ImgBurn has to insert 2 bytes to make it a full sector. This would be on a per track basis too if working from individual files.
So at most, ImgBurn will only ever add 2351 '0' byes to your audio - which is less than 1/75th of a second. Anything you think you hear beyond that is coming from your source file/directshow/acm.
I don't see that there's any other way to do it whereby you don't end up losing something that *should* be there - according to the source file anyway.
Separate MP3's per track is an awful way of saving/burning a disc that contains tracks which are supposed to be mixed together seamlessly.
1 long MP3 (using the CUE for track markers) or a format that encodes/decodes to the exact same amount of bytes (i.e. flac, ape) or doesn't encode at all (i.e. pcm, raw, wav) would be the correct way to do it.
From the very start, the misconception that mp3 files were appropriate for CD creation was where this mess started. Had you first converted to CD-compatible wav files BEFORE editing, you would not have gone through this arduous, messy process; nor would you have had gaps of silence between cuts when using (or misusing) some of the software you tried. After editing in Audacity and exporting as .wav files, CDRFETools would have made you a perfect CD, if only you had taken the time to learn all the ins and outs of the software. I use it all the time to make concert CDs that have no gaps of silence at the track changes. Seamless!
I am glad you found a solution, and I'm not trying to rag on you. I just don't want others to accept your conclusions as gospel. There are much better methods to do what you intended to do, with far fewer headaches.
And so the program CDFrontend tools did make a great CD. And now I know. But sometimes the easy route is not always the best route. Sometimes you just go to let people figure out things on their own, and if they have a question, then they will ask you. Everyone is ignorant--it is strictly all good. For if we knew everything, then we would be the one that created everything. As it is, we as humans did not create everything. We do not know everything. This is the standpoint in which I view. And since the world is ignorant of not knowing the truth, we have no right will to say that "this is right," or "this is wrong." So the best way to rephrase your sentence is this: " I am fired up that your figured this out." An ARROGANT sentence was "you would have known that using mp3 for a cd safes time and thus save you a whole lot of time." The best way to restructure this sentence is "Yep. I do not recommend using mp3's because they can cause a lot of issues. And using wav files, as you have found out, are the best way that I would choose to go about doing things that have always worked for me."