Looking for a new vhs capture work flow

[yoda313]

Ok I think I'm finally gonna try to dub some more vhs tapes from my collection. My thinking is to get some tv caps in and finally dump more old tapes. These won't be keepsakes that I have to save the original version for.

I haven't done vhs caps in awhile except for a couple to my standalone liteon dvd recorder. I want to try to get back to using my pc. Here is my equipment I have:

Hauppauge hd pvr 1212

ATI ALL IN WONDER HD (512mb pci-e version - not the first gen one)

PINNACLE HD USB STICK (not pro version)

I also have a fusion hdtv capture card on my other pc (fyi the 3 above are on my vista pc which is a 2.7ghz dual core amd with 2gb ram and vista premium).

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Now my question is regarding the hauppauge hd pvr. I have only used it so far with my hd cable dvr. I haven't recorded any sd material from tape yet. Also I have a decent but not over the top vcr (4 head stereo magnavox 90's vintage I believe).

What would the benefit of recording sd material to the hd pvr be? My final destination I believe will still be dvd. So that means a conversion to mpeg2.

I have pinnacle studio 12 plus that can import m2ts. I haven't tried importing my m2ts files from the hd pvr but I don't see why they wouldn't work (it does do h264 right?). - Also would it take more processing time to author a dvd from m2ts than it would a mpeg2 file? I have to believe it would even on a dual core pc since it has to convert to mpeg2 when a direct cap to mpeg2 would be compliant...... If its more than double the processing time this might not be worth it unless the hd pvr has better capture processing then my other devices.....

Speaking of compliance - does the hdpvr record analog audio in the ac3 format like it does from the cable hd dvr? Or does it capture analog audio in mp2 or pcm audio?

So would it be overkill to use the hd pvr for dubbing tapes? Would it perform any better than the ati aiw or the pinnalce stick?

I don't have a tbc and I don't have a svhs vcr so I will be outputting strictly through composite as that is all I have avaialble.

You're recommendations are welcome. I don't know when I'll start this project but I think I'd like to do it - you know an hour here an hour there.

Also one last question - does the hd pvr recognize macrovision or not?

[yoda313]

I haven't started this project yet but was looking for feedback.

So if I were to capture with the hd pvr and convert to dvd would the conversion introduce more artifacts or "soften" the video as opposed to one capture directly to mpeg2? Or is the hardware in the hdpvr superior to other devices and any conversion to mpeg2 would be negligble in terms of degradation? (of course with the caveat these are sd vhs tapes with noise).

[vhelp]

Hi yoda33,

Since you're talking about analog capturing. There are probably other questions to bring up but these are good for now..

What will you be viewing these on ? .. HDTV vs. LCD vs. SD TV or other
A these permanent videos ?
What is your primary format ? .. MPEG-2, xvid, h264 (AVC), or may change later

. . .

With the onboard hardware MPEG encoder (HME) there is always the chance quality in some areas may suffer due to internal setup at the factory. Some things can be adjusted through the configuration dialogs of these encoders or through unofficial "tweaks" (hacks) through the registry to bypass standard (ie dvd) configurations or to pass beyond the encoders recommended settings.

In terms of HME's, I wouldn't say they are superior..just better under certain conditions, like system (cpu) officiency while doing other tasks though I disagree with this. But beyond the hardware aspects, then its up to the craftmenship of that encoder, the engineers/designers of that encoder. With hardware, there are limits imposed (for the reasons above) but with software there is more flexability, not just the encoder but in post-process, like taking the video and running it through various affects prior to encoding it.

Best thing you can at the moment is test both routes through an A/B compare and see if there's noticable difference between the two. If you see no serious artifacts or evidense of difference then go ahead and use that method/route. Just don't assume that the method will apply the same to every source because there may be some that will be difficult for the HME and you'll be disapointed. Find a guage that is easy for you to measure your captured videos so that you can use this as a tool to A/B your video rather quickly. Like, find your center. Something that is quick and easy, and go with your eyes. This may be difficult for you if you are not familiar or confortable in working with certain tools, like scripts and things. You may have to write a script to bring two videos to A/B compare and review and it might not be your cup of tea. You'll rather just take a quick look at it and let your concious be your guide I don't know. But sometimes it can be droolling to set these things up. I find this in my video endeavors and end up resorting to a quick comprimise--a small viewing screen is enough in most cases--to go with the HME route. It all depends.

You may find that the HME results look good enough on small size viewing screens but on larger ones, not so well or noticable artifacts. So I guess it would depend on your viewing medium...what will you be viewing these on.

It all depends on the comprimise. I know for me, at least, there are times when I just want to dump a bunch of videos to mem sticks though usually for temporary reasons. I never throw anything away.

So I guess it all depends. If these are just temporary recordings (and you aren't planning on throwing any of the masters away) then there is no reason to vear a little from what others may consider a better way, quality or equipment.

. . .

In my case for multi media player pleasure, I am still reviewing codec choice. Right now, I'm trying to decide whether to go with the quickness of XviD vs. MPEG-2 vs. H264 (AVC) but haven't made up my mind, yet. I am playing mostly with xvid and living with certain high compression (small filezie) quality levels and comprimise with some of the artifacts because H264 seems to be too slow in my case (ie my slower pc) etc., though I would go with that route for the time being, serving these videos to my wd tv.

In terms of MPEG-2 vs. xvid vs. h264, I've been gauging through the idea of commercial dvd standards. DVD videos have a certain bitrate criteria per medium (disc) and (when encoding to xvid or h264) I want to at least reach the storage of that DVD but with a little less space hogging and same or like quality levels. My first attempt is to gauge according to that dvd, and then try to push it through optimized / efficient encoding means, xvid. The hope is to make half the size if not better than of that dvd, and still maintaing the same quality level if possible..maybe a little compremise here or there.

-vhelp 5177

[yoda313]

Thanks vhelp.

I guess the best thing is like you said to do a comparison.

I should try capping with all three devices. Then I could do a comparison from the same video.

Oh and most of these would be tv caps of series that often get repeated so I'm not likely to miss them if I ditch the tapes.

As mentioned my idea here is to end up with a dvd. I only have one portable harddrive at 320gb right now to use with my wdtv so its going to get filled up pretty soon. I'll buy a larger drive eventually just not right away.

So dvd is my final destination. With that said it probably is best in the long run to cap straight to mpeg2 dvd mode for simplicity sake. But I will want to give the hauppauge box a chance to show what it can do in sd mode.

By the way does anyone know if the hd pvr 1212 records analog audio in mp2 or ac3?

Oh and also mostly would be played back on my 32" hdtv westinghouse (1366x768). However given the analog full screen nature of most of the tapes that isn't much of a concern so playback shouldn't matter in terms of wide or full or letterboxed - its all square to me

[yoda313]

Well I'm finally getting around to dubbing again.

I tried the hauppage. However it kept locking up when I'd stop and rewind a tape. I'd have to turn it off and turn it on again to reacquire the vcr.

And I decided that since I'd have to convert it to dvd anyway I might as well capture to mpeg2 instead of h264 with the hauppauge hdpvr.

Also its nice that I can actually fastforward and rewind with the pinnacle usb hd pro stick while in preview mode. It doesn't lock up at all even though its usb. I can fast forward through to the next show while watching it on the pc.

So it looks ok using the usb pinnacle capture unit.

This shouldn't be too bad then. At least now I can edit easily with any program rather than h264 only programs. In otherwords I can still do editing in TDA 2.0 if I want without looking for h264 cutters for commecial editing and the like.

Thanks for the input and advice.

[olyteddy]

Just a tip, when I do TV captures, I don't edit out the commercials. I place a chapter mark at the end of the adverts, so I can just hit next chapter button when viewing.

[vhelp]

I tried the hauppage. However it kept locking up when I'd stop and rewind a tape. I'd have to turn it off and turn it on again to reacquire the vcr.

this is prob due to how the haup records..it locks onto a video (and/or audio) signal. If you FF/RW/STOP, its the same as shutting down the signal, I guess.

Other capture equip don't look for a signal to lock onto. They just capture. At least I know it doesn't do this during my laserdisc captures. I was recently testing my pinnacle dv/av composite captures out of curiosity (but didn't like it) and while capturing I FW/RW on the laserdisc and it continued capturing. So, at least I its not the capture card. However, that doesn't necessesarily mean the device, it could also be a software too. I was using virtualdub because its the most effecient as far as analog capturing goes.

BTW, good tip, olyteddy..although its an easy one to forget over time.

-vhelp 5205