Okay, so lately I've been recording some TV programs with my OTA HDTV tuner, and the quality is great! But, the resulting file is a 7GB MPG. So, I've been using AutoGK to convert them to a 350MB XviD file. The quality isn't bad, but when I compare it to the scene release of the same program, it is much lower quality. Is there any way I could achieve the same quality as the scene release while still maintaining the 350mb file size? Thanks in advance.
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Looks like you're trying to save space so the quality will probably suffer...
x.264/mp4 is probably worth a look
tripling the Xvid bitrate to 1gb worth a look
maybe buy a couple of 1-2 tb HDD's to remedy the space prob (one for backup)
then you could keep the original mpg...or not -
Unless the MPEG-2 source is encoded with a ridiculously overkill high bitrate to begin with you can expect significant quality loss at such low file sizes.
And this line says it all to me:Originally Posted by Mdoodm1000
My point is that if you're to use such codecs with the objective of decreasing file size tremendously you should expect "watchable" results, which is what they can promise solidly. They will not deliver high quality at, like, 20% of the high quality MPEG-2 source bitrate.
High expectations are the root of all disappointments.I hate VHS. I always did. -
Inverse Telecine. Use a smaller frame size. Maybe a little noise reduction. All those things will reduce the bitrate requirement.
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Originally Posted by Xpenguin17
Originally Posted by Xpenguin17 -
Originally Posted by Xpenguin17
Did you ever looked at the smearing and blurring x264 does at low bitrates. E.g. look at the details in relatively flat areas. They are all lost. For low bitrates I would even prefer xvid (at a somewhat higher bitrate) because that keeps the details.
Ok, at high bitrates x264 will probably beat mpeg2. -
Originally Posted by Xpenguin17
Dickhead -
Given that I've been a DVD/Blu-ray ripper for 2 years, I know what the **** a rip is. A "rip" (copy as you say) from a DVD transcoded to XviD would be an XviD rip; ergo, a rip from the DVD now in XviD. Get it? Probably should've said "encode," instead. Whatever.
Bottom line is that MPEG-2 is never better quality than H264 at any bitrate under any circumstance. Don't feed misleading shit to noobs.
and for serious high quality video projects, they really don't do much better than MPEG-2 -
Originally Posted by Chris K
Allright, I'll give you a day to save yourself from making a retard outta yourself in the future. Do a comparison. Compress a clip with x264 and XviD at the exact same bitrate. Try both high and low bitrates. Then come and tell me if XviD's severe cumstain still looks awesome. -
Originally Posted by Xpenguin17
At low bitrates, x264 has to do a lot of deblocking at the decoding process, that's why the smearing. You can't get back what isn't there. -
Even without deblocking, it will retain better quality at the same low bitrate. H264 is a more advanced algorithm altogether.
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Sorry, I messed up the original post when trying to get part of it for a new post.
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Originally Posted by Xpenguin17
Aside from the fact that mpeg2 isn't meant for low bitrates, mpeg2 and xvid are "honest" encoders. Trying to do all they can to keep details (not easy with high compression encoders). At low bitrates, x264 uses a big bunch of tricks to give the impression it looks good.
You shouldn't compare x264 with xvid but x264 with your source. -
Originally Posted by manono
DVD=>MPEG2
vs
DVD=>h.264
At any equivalent bitrate, h.264 will look better. He probably assumes you are using a decent h.264 implementation and settings. Because the JM h.264 Reference Encoder, or using baseline settings for ipod for example, can certainly make h.264 look worse than xvid
Back to the original topic, there are other possible explanations. How did you do the capture? What format (I re-read the OP and it says 7GB MPG, which I am assuming is MPEG2). If your source was markedly worse starting quality than the "scene" people then no XviD settings or workflow will get you similar quality, eg. if they captured uncompressed. -
So you're saying that if you take a DVD source and reencode it to H.264 at any bitrate you choose, the H.264 encode will look better than the source? Are you sure about that?
Two whole years? You don't say? Yep, I'm impressed.
Chris K, I compare both outputs to the source. Even without deblocking, H.264 will still be higher quality than XviD. -
Originally Posted by Xpenguin17
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Okay, obviously you think I'm an outright bullshitter. So it comes down to this if you wanna prove it to yourself:
1. Find a pure source, e.g. record from a game with ultra-real graphics or download the source code of the CGI movie "Do Elephants Dream" as I hear it's publicly available.
2. Do comparisons.
3. Post screenshots. -
Originally Posted by PuzZLeR
The OP's HD source to 350MB Xvid conversions do not look as good as those upped by the 'Scene' of what appears to be the same type of source to the same sized Xvid.
Is there any way I could achieve the same quality as the scene release while still maintaining the 350mb file size?
To the OP give Xvid4PSP a shot. It has quite a few Denoise/Sharpen options available plus the ability to tweak the script. -
For whoever asked, the quality of the original file is much better than the scene release, but the compressed AVI that AutoGK created is worse. Here are some screen caps.
Original MPEG-2 File:
Scene release XviD:
AutoGK compressed XviD:
Any suggestions on how I could achieve the same quality as the scene release while maintaining the 350mb size and XviD format? Thanks in advance. -
Open your source video in VirtualDub. Add the following filters:
Deinterlace -> Discard field 1
Resize -> Lanczos3 624x352
Encode with Xvid, 2-pass VBR. That will leave you with slightly off colors since your HD source is rec.709 and VirtualDub will assume rec.601. But I suspect your scene download has the same problem.
Your HD snapshot with these filters:
I can't say exactly what will happen from there with Xvid encoding. But at least you'll be starting with a clean, sharp source. -
You're assuming that the "scene" is using the same source as you.
A 7GB MPEG2 for a 1hr show with commercials (44min after editing out commercials), assuming 192kbps AC3 audio, will give you about 15-16Mbps video bitrate for a 1920x1080 (1088) source. That's not a lot for MPEG2. If you used a higher bitrate or recorded uncompressed (which I suspect they are) you would see your source would be significantly crisper, and the subsequent encode would be better
Also manono asked for you to post the logfile...examining that might help with more suggestions -
Originally Posted by poisondeathray
[8/5/2009 10:44:43 PM] AutoGK 2.55
[8/5/2009 10:44:43 PM] OS: WinXP (5.1.2600).2
[8/5/2009 10:44:43 PM] Job started.
[8/5/2009 10:44:43 PM] Input file: C:\Documents and Settings\Matt\My Documents\My Videos\Capture\Video\Americas.Got.Talent.Edit.mpg
[8/5/2009 10:44:43 PM] Output file: C:\Documents and Settings\Matt\My Documents\My Videos\Capture\Video\Americas.Got.Talent.S04E14.HD TV.XviD.avi
[8/5/2009 10:44:43 PM] Output codec: XviD
[8/5/2009 10:44:43 PM] Audio 1: Audio Stream 1 AC3
[8/5/2009 10:44:43 PM] Subtitles: none
[8/5/2009 10:44:43 PM] Format: AVI
[8/5/2009 10:44:43 PM] Target size: 350Mb
[8/5/2009 10:44:43 PM] Custom resolution settings: fixed width of 624 pixels
[8/5/2009 10:44:43 PM] Audio 1 settings: VBR MP3 with average bitrate: 128Kbps
[8/5/2009 10:44:43 PM] Standalone support enabled: ESS
[8/5/2009 10:44:43 PM] Started encoding.
[8/5/2009 10:44:43 PM] Demuxing and indexing.
[8/5/2009 10:46:51 PM] Processing file: C:\Documents and Settings\Matt\My Documents\My Videos\Capture\Video\Americas.Got.Talent.Edit.mpg
[8/5/2009 10:46:51 PM] Source resolution: 1920x1080
[8/5/2009 10:46:51 PM] Found NTSC source.
[8/5/2009 10:46:51 PM] Source aspect ratio: 16:9
[8/5/2009 10:46:51 PM] Color correction enabled.
[8/5/2009 10:46:51 PM] Analyzing source.
[8/5/2009 10:54:17 PM] Source has percentage of interlacing in motion areas: 87.02
[8/5/2009 10:54:17 PM] Source has percentage of telecined patterns: 1.44
[8/5/2009 10:54:17 PM] Source has percentage of progressive patterns: 6.80
[8/5/2009 10:54:17 PM] Source has percentage of interlaced patterns: 91.76
[8/5/2009 10:54:17 PM] Source is considered to be interlaced.
[8/5/2009 10:54:17 PM] Output will contain 76000 frames
[8/5/2009 10:54:17 PM] Decoding audio.
[8/5/2009 10:55:39 PM] Normalizing audio.
[8/5/2009 10:55:58 PM] Encoding audio.
[8/5/2009 11:00:00 PM] Using VAQ in XviD
[8/5/2009 11:00:00 PM] Audio1 size: 36,213,480 bytes (34.54 Mb)
[8/5/2009 11:00:04 PM] Overhead: 3,040,000 bytes (2.90 Mb)
[8/5/2009 11:00:04 PM] Video size: 327,748,120 bytes (312.56 Mb)
[8/5/2009 11:00:04 PM] Running compressibility test.
[8/5/2009 11:00:04 PM] Writing the following script to C:\Documents and Settings\Matt\My Documents\My Videos\Capture\Video\agk_tmp\Americas.Got.Talent.S 04E14.HDTV.XviD_comptest.avs
================================================== =========
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\DGMPGDec\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\autocrop.dl l")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\ColorMatrix .dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\RemoveGrain SSE3.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\leakkerneld eint.dll")
movie = mpeg2source("C:\Documents and Settings\Matt\My Documents\My Videos\Capture\Video\agk_tmp\Americas.Got.Talent.S 04E14.HDTV.XviD.d2v")
cropclip = autocrop(movie,mode=0,wmultof=4,hmultof=4,samples= 10,aspect=0,threshold=34,samplestartframe=0,leftad d=0,rightadd=0,topadd=0,bottomadd=0)
fixed_aspect = 1
c_width = width(cropclip)
c_height = round(height(cropclip) / fixed_aspect)
input_par = float(c_width)/float(c_height)
input_par = (input_par > 1.4) || (input_par < 1.25) ? input_par : (4.0/3.0)
out_width = 624
out_height = round(float(out_width) / input_par)
hmod = out_height - (floor(out_height / 16 ) * 16)
out_height = (hmod > 4) ? (out_height + (16 - hmod)) : (out_height - hmod)
new_aspect = (float(out_width) / float(out_height)) / fixed_aspect
LeakKernelDeInt(movie,order=1,sharp=true)
autocrop(mode=0,wmultof=4,hmultof=4,samples=10,asp ect=new_aspect,threshold=34,samplestartframe=0,lef tadd=0,rightadd=0,topadd=0,bottomadd=0)
LanczosResize(out_width,out_height)
RemoveGrain(mode=2)
ColorMatrix("Rec.709->Rec.601",opt=0,hints=false,threads=0)
SelectRangeEvery(300,15)
================================================== =========
[8/5/2009 11:08:08 PM] Duration was: 8 minutes 3 seconds
[8/5/2009 11:08:08 PM] Speed was: 7.85 fps.
[8/5/2009 11:08:08 PM] Compressibility percentage is: 44.36
[8/5/2009 11:08:08 PM] Using softer resizer.
[8/5/2009 11:08:08 PM] Chosen resolution is: 624x352 ( AR: 1.77 )
[8/5/2009 11:08:08 PM] Predicted comptest value is: 46.84%
[8/5/2009 11:08:08 PM] Running first pass.
[8/5/2009 11:08:08 PM] Writing the following script to C:\Documents and Settings\Matt\My Documents\My Videos\Capture\Video\agk_tmp\Americas.Got.Talent.S 04E14.HDTV.XviD_movie.avs
================================================== =========
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\DGMPGDec\DGDecode.d ll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\autocrop.dl l")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\ColorMatrix .dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\RemoveGrain SSE3.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\leakkerneld eint.dll")
movie = mpeg2source("C:\Documents and Settings\Matt\My Documents\My Videos\Capture\Video\agk_tmp\Americas.Got.Talent.S 04E14.HDTV.XviD.d2v")
cropclip = autocrop(movie,mode=0,wmultof=4,hmultof=4,samples= 10,aspect=0,threshold=34,samplestartframe=0,leftad d=0,rightadd=0,topadd=0,bottomadd=0)
fixed_aspect = 1
c_width = width(cropclip)
c_height = round(height(cropclip) / fixed_aspect)
input_par = float(c_width)/float(c_height)
input_par = (input_par > 1.4) || (input_par < 1.25) ? input_par : (4.0/3.0)
out_width = 624
out_height = round(float(out_width) / input_par)
hmod = out_height - (floor(out_height / 16 ) * 16)
out_height = (hmod > 4) ? (out_height + (16 - hmod)) : (out_height - hmod)
new_aspect = (float(out_width) / float(out_height)) / fixed_aspect
LeakKernelDeInt(movie,order=1,sharp=true)
autocrop(mode=0,wmultof=4,hmultof=4,samples=10,asp ect=new_aspect,threshold=34,samplestartframe=0,lef tadd=0,rightadd=0,topadd=0,bottomadd=0)
BicubicResize(out_width,out_height,0,0.5)
RemoveGrain(mode=2)
ColorMatrix("Rec.709->Rec.601",opt=0,hints=false,threads=0)
================================================== =========
[8/6/2009 12:29:01 AM] Duration was: 1 hour, 20 minutes 52 seconds
[8/6/2009 12:29:01 AM] Speed was: 15.66 fps.
[8/6/2009 12:29:01 AM] Expected quality of first pass size: 46.25%
[8/6/2009 12:29:01 AM] Running second pass.
[8/6/2009 2:12:37 AM] Duration was: 1 hour, 43 minutes 30 seconds
[8/6/2009 2:12:37 AM] Speed was: 12.24 fps.
[8/6/2009 2:12:37 AM] Job finished. Total time: 3 hours 27 minutes 53 seconds -
You forced a width of 624. Maybe you were trying to mimic the "scene" release, but as a result the quality percentage isn't all that high:
8/6/2009 12:29:01 AM] Expected quality of first pass size: 46.25%
MysticE suggested trying XviD4PSP which isn't a bad idea as there are a number of available filters. But XviD4PSP also has a bit of a learning curve, unlike AutoGK which anyone can use with no prior knowledge or skill at all. -
LeakKernelDeInt(movie,order=1,sharp=true) is probably responsible for some of the loss of sharpness. It makes mistakes when motions are very small, like in the sample shot. Subsequent resizing would then blur the small comb artifacts together.
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